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Discussion Starter #1
agassi, malisse, youzhny, henman, nalbandian, blake, schalken, enqvist, norman.

i find this quite interesting. i know that it is on clay bnut most of these players games are still effective on clay. is the physical side of the mens tour finally catching up to the players making them not play at such a high level all the time? or the lower ranked players catching up to their top players by improving their game? it certainly makes for an interesting tournament, now a few more matches should be a bit more competitive. btw, i saw the first set of agassi's match and it astounds me that he lost the match. ferrer didn't have much, he had a couple of good shots i guess he made them more frequently in the other 2 sets.
 

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When you only have 64 players, half of those losses aren't "big names" and were expected to lose.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
4 of them were seeds, malisse can play well on any surface, henman is a big name although clay isn't his surface and enqvist and norman use to be big contenders for these big tournaments and are on their way back.

to me they are pretty much all big names except for maybe youzhny but he has that memorable fed cup tie to his name.
 

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Henman drew Coria, who was higher ranked and is better on clay. Furthermore, he recently reached the MC finals. This was not an upset, it was an expected result.

Malisse's best results have been on hard.

Youzhny was upset, but he hasn't been all that pretty much all year. Not sure what his problem is.

Nalbandian has been in a slump lately, and you can't get away with that against a player like Mantilla.

Enqvist had to qualify to even make the main draw, and lost to Hrbaty, who is better on clay anyhow.

Norman had to qualify to make the main draw as well. He lost to Schuettler, who's weakest surface is clay, but who has been so solid this entire year that it doesn't seem to matter.

Schalken lost to Alberto Martin, who is at his best on clay. Martin beat Ferrero last year, among some other good wins he's had on this surface.

And although I think that Blake should have beaten Stepanek, that is' hardly a fall out of my chair shocker either... Stepanek had a good week the other week, if memory serves, so he's in good form.
 

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Rebecca said:
Henman drew Coria, who was higher ranked and is better on clay. Furthermore, he recently reached the MC finals. This was not an upset, it was an expected result.

Malisse's best results have been on hard.

Youzhny was upset, but he hasn't been all that pretty much all year. Not sure what his problem is.

Nalbandian has been in a slump lately, and you can't get away with that against a player like Mantilla.

Enqvist had to qualify to even make the main draw, and lost to Hrbaty, who is better on clay anyhow.

Norman had to qualify to make the main draw as well. He lost to Schuettler, who's weakest surface is clay, but who has been so solid this entire year that it doesn't seem to matter.

Schalken lost to Alberto Martin, who is at his best on clay. Martin beat Ferrero last year, among some other good wins he's had on this surface.

And although I think that Blake should have beaten Stepanek, that is' hardly a fall out of my chair shocker either... Stepanek had a good week the other week, if memory serves, so he's in good form.
What about Baldy? How come he lost? Was it over-confidence? Was it an off-day? Was Ferrer on a high? I don't think it's any of that...

I bet he had too much fun with Steffi the night b4 ... ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
i'm not saying that i expected these players to win but i'm shocked that they all lost this early. i'm not saying they're good clay court players or anything but they aren't terrible either and they all had winnable matches.
 

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Gowza said:
i'm not saying that i expected these players to win but i'm shocked that they all lost this early. i'm not saying they're good clay court players or anything but they aren't terrible either and they all had winnable matches.
And I'm telling you that this isn't entirely true.

For example, if you think that Henman had a winnable match against Coria, then you obviously don't know very much about Coria. Which is fine, we can't all be glued to mens tennis... but Coria was the favourite BY FAR in this match.
 

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Rebecca said:
I also add that TWO of the players you mentioned as "big names" had to qualify to make the main draw. Enqvist and Norman were not even ranked high enough to get in, thanks to injuries/slumps, and neither lost to some "nobody" who they should have destroyed. I remind you that Hrbaty is a former RG semifinalist.
Yep Yep Yep.... Makes perfect sense to me...

Henman, Enquist and Norman are guys who are trying to make a comeback... I never expected Henman and Enquist to win... but must admit... thought Norman might pull it off against Schuettler who's not at his best on clay... in saying that.. Schuettler is tough on any surface with his gritty determination alone...add good groundstrokes and good footspeed.. you've got a potential clay-specialist...
 

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Discussion Starter #11
actually i do know that coria made the final at monte carlo and is good on clay plus he did quite well at the oz open but henman is still a big name well he was last year for awhile.

chill out it was just a simple question.
 

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Gowza said:
actually i do know that coria made the final at monte carlo and is good on clay plus he did quite well at the oz open but henman is still a big name well he was last year for awhile.

chill out it was just a simple question.
Henman hasn't been playing much this year, and has never been a huge force on clay. He did alright last year, but Coria is better on clay, plain and simple.

I'm not annoyed, and don't need to "chill", thanks. I'm merely trying to make it clear that surface matters on ATP far more than WTA.
 

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TennisHack said:
In a TMS event, the big names fall early because they're the only ones there.

Or, what Hurley said.
What Hackie said.

This is like complaining about the shocking Top Ten defeats at the Masters Cup.

I mean, there will only be 32 winners in the first round. When you're putting people like Norman and Enqvist into the "big names" group, when they're barely in the Top 100, or Schalken and Henman, who are highly-ranked but in no way would ever beat the guys they lost to on clay...you've extended that "big names" group to include nearly the entire field.

And 58 guys can't win first round matches in a 64-player draw.

Just like the amount of people who are all predicted to get into the Top Ten won't get in. Unless the Top Ten expands to hold 19 players every now and then.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
actually the commentators said henman has a good game for clay.

i'm not complaining it was just question i asked because i wondered what everyone else thought about it. but there aren't only big names in these types of events. there are a lot of big names but there are quite a lot of others who big names.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Hurley, i meant big names as in all surfaces. i didn't mean they were big names on clay.
 

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Gowza said:
actually the commentators said henman has a good game for clay.

i'm not complaining it was just question i asked because i wondered what everyone else thought about it. but there aren't only big names in these types of events. there are a lot of big names but there are quite a lot of others who big names.
The commentators aren't totally wrong, he's had okay results before. Though his game is hardly suited to clay, so I'm not sure exactly what context they meant that in :p

Coria's carreer results on clay are better than Henmans, and he's ranked more than 10 sports higher.
 

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You said this:

Gowza said:
is the physical side of the mens tour finally catching up to the players making them not play at such a high level all the time? or the lower ranked players catching up to their top players by improving their game?
But there aren't any low-ranked players here. When you are talking 64-draw Masters Series events, with the exception of wild cards, everyone in the draw is a threat. And if you're including Norman, Enqvist, Henman (over Coria), and Schalken (over Martin) as "big names," you pretty much have to include the entire field as "big names." And only 32 can win. Not 63 or 64.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
i think they said he's got a good slice backhand and if he gets that going he can slice in a short ball so his opponent has to come into the net. they also said the slice is more effective with the double-handed backhands for obvious reasons.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
martin hasn't won a big tournament on clay i don't think. schalken is a seed that's why i mention him as a big name. norman has done really well on clay in the past so i count him as a big name. i did mention these players based on their ranking except for schalken (because he was seeded).
 
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