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Adrenaline junkie
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It is her confidence. She no longer possesses a Champion's mind. She completely lost her killer instinct. Out of her 5 losses in big matches this year only once she was really comprehensively beaten. By Myskina at RG. In othre four big losses - Raymond, Dementieva, Sprem and Davenport today - the matches were there for the taking - even with her level of the play on particular day, all she had to do is striking at the right time, winning 1-2 crucial points when it mattered. She had setpoints in the first set, she had breakpoints for 6:5 and serving for the match today. She had multiple setpoints against Sprem. She had matchpoint against Dementieva. Venus of 2000-2001 would not let those chances go, though she also used to have bad days and her forehand would also let her down sometimes.
 

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The quality and consistency of her forehand generally depends on how high her confidence is. And that makes sense since it has always been her streakiest and most vulnerable shot. There is a definite link between her confidence and her forehand.
 

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tennisIlove09 said:
I've been saying it's her confidence all along. Once she regains it, she'll be fine.
She was doing everything rigth this year. Everything was coming together. She made one crucial mistake - she played Berlin. That instantly threw her back to where she started it all. By RG time it was again January 2004 for her.
 

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People said the same thing about Hingis in late 2001 and in 2002 .well the confidence never came back and she had to retire. I have a feeling Venus will do that too if she doesn't get it back soon
 

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Leo_DFP said:
The quality and consistency of her forehand generally depends on how high her confidence is. And that makes sense since it has always been her streakiest and most vulnerable shot. There is a definite link between her confidence and her forehand.
So true. I don't know if her forehand can really be changed. But she needs to beat a good quality player, to gain that confidence back.
I still think that she will be better if she adds more dimensions to her game. If the forehand flaw cannot be improved, then she should start volleying or something.

Of course, I am not a tennis expert. So I don't even know if Venus can change her game. :(

I still believe that she will win more tournaments. But she will need every match play to regain her confidence.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
idunno said:
People said the same thing about Hingis in late 2001 and in 2002 .well the confidence never came back and she had to retire. I have a feeling Venus will do that too if she doesn't get it back soon
Com'n.. It is nothing like Hingis situation. Hingis had PHYSICAL problems.
 

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What!?

All,

So - I see said the blind man. Everytime Venus loses - it was because of her confidence - huh? What about Lindsay being her opponent also trying her best to win the dang-blasted match?

I mean - what is up w/this confidence thing as it pertains to Venus? Is she the only one that each time she loses it is because of her confidence? How ludicrious. What about Lindsay playing a wonderful match.

I agree w/the poster that said that Lindsay stayed positive thru-out and believed that she could hang w/Venus. Why was it that Lindsay lost the previous six matches against Venus? Was it because of her lack of confidence?

See people - what some are really saying is that Venus is NOT SUPPOSED to lose - and if she does - it is due to her lack of confidence. Do most really believe that? She lost by a few points to a player that used to have her number until she learned how to play said person.

Venus lost because she had a few too many errors and because Lindsay hung tough - and especially in the last tiebreak.

I have never heard of such excuses in my life as to why a single player (and in this case - Venus) lost - for real. Too much!
 

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No if you saw that match today her forehand was not on...it started to Gel in the 3rd set. Now her confidence in using it is shaky too...but once she get her forehand down..her confidence will come. If her forehand is off...she's not going to take a lot of chances making shots
 

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What I like about the "new Venus" is her intensity. It seemed like she used to just not care she was even there. Now, there are more fist pumps and positive emotion shown by her.
 

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GogoGirl said:
All,

So - I see said the blind man. Everytime Venus loses - it was because of her confidence - huh? What about Lindsay being her opponent also trying her best to win the dang-blasted match?

I mean - what is up w/this confidence thing as it pertains to Venus? Is she the only one that each time she loses it is because of her confidence? How ludicrious. What about Lindsay playing a wonderful match.

I agree w/the poster that said that Lindsay stayed positive thru-out and believed that she could hang w/Venus. Why was it that Lindsay lost the previous six matches against Venus? Was it because of her lack of confidence?

See people - what some are really saying is that Venus is NOT SUPPOSED to lose - and if she does - it is due to her lack of confidence. Do most really believe that? She lost by a few points to a player that used to have her number until she learned how to play said person.

Venus lost because she had a few too many errors and because Lindsay hung tough - and especially in the last tiebreak.

I have never heard of such excuses in my life as to why a single player (and in this case - Venus) lost - for real. Too much!


No one is saying these girls aren't quality opponents, but in almost every loss Venus has had this year she's had opportunities to win. She's been up set points, break points, tie breaks and she hasn't been able to pull it together when it was hers from the taking. It's not these girls aren't good, but Venus gets herself into the position to win these matches like she did today and then because her confidence is low she loses these opportunities. Once she gets her confidence in full force she'll be back to where she was, but I must say even a Venus who isn't all that confident and struggled with may errors still got it to 7-6 in the third against a very good opponent, that is a very good sign
 

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ys said:
Com'n.. It is nothing like Hingis situation. Hingis had PHYSICAL problems.
Well the problems may not be similar but the situation is the same. There just comes a point when some tennis players can't win a GS anymore. Great players like Arantxa, and even Seles were also in a similar situation.

I do agree with you, however, that it's a confidence problem, because in all the players concerned there games didn't really deteriorate to a lower level, in certain aspects yes but not all together.

I'm only sad because as is evident in the trend none of these players were able to fix this problem and thus spent the latter part of their careers in a decline.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
luna_moonstone said:
I'm only sad because as is evident in the trend none of these players were able to fix this problem and thus spent the latter part of their careers in a decline.
For most of those declines it also coincided with ageing.


I can give you some opposite examples when the players managed to get over the hump of mid-career crisis. Capriati. Agassi. Even Sampras won his second Slam at an age simiilar to the current age of Venus, after 2 years of slamless draught. I think these examples are more fitting the case.
 

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ys said:
She was doing everything rigth this year. Everything was coming together. She made one crucial mistake - she played Berlin. That instantly threw her back to where she started it all. By RG time it was again January 2004 for her.
I don't agree with that. In January 2004, she was rusty and hadn't had ANY match play for months. Going into Roland Garros, Venus was probably a bit insecure about her ankle, but she had played plenty of tennis going in and was match tough. Not just that, but the ankle seemingly didn't affect her play in the matches at all.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Leo_DFP said:
I don't agree with that. In January 2004, she was rusty and hadn't had ANY match play for months. Going into Roland Garros, Venus was probably a bit insecure about her ankle, but she had played plenty of tennis going in and was match tough.
We are not talking about rustiness or match play. We are talking _confidence_. By the start of Berlin tournament she _WAS_ confident. By the end of it she was _NOT_. Simple.
 

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ys said:
For most of those declines it also coincided with ageing.


I can give you some opposite examples when the players managed to get over the hump of mid-career crisis. Capriati. Agassi. Even Sampras won his second Slam at an age simiilar to the current age of Venus, after 2 years of slamless draught. I think these examples are more fitting the case.
I agree, but I can't help feeling the way I feel. It's been many months and Venus' confidence as taken many blows, she needs it high to get it back, but it's one loss after another.

I'll always be a supporter but I don't want her to stick around and decline. I saw how cruel people were to Arantxa. They forget what players have done and basically just revel in their downfall. :sad:
 

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What about Chris Evert who had been a dominating player and then was overtaken by Navratilova? She continued to play and have victories although she never dominated again. She won a lot of fans because she improved her physical condition and her game as she rose to meet the challenge Navratilova presented even though it was clear that she would never dominate as she once did.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
luna_moonstone said:
I agree, but I can't help feeling the way I feel. It's been many months and Venus' confidence as taken many blows, she needs it high to get it back, but it's one loss after another.
As I already posted here, I think that Venus was "this" close, almost there after winning Warsaw. Should dhe have withdrawn from Berlin, or should she have scheduled Rome instead of Berlin, she would have been in completely different position now. Berlin injury was a huge confidence blow.

It is definitely not all lost. It took her 3 monthes to get her confidence. 3 monthes since start of RG would mean peaking by US Open time. Would you be OK with that? :wavey:
 

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I believe Lindsay stayed positive throughtout the match because she could see how shaky Venus was. I mean, who wouldn't be?

If you see your opponent not as dominant against you as she usually is, you hang in there and hope for the best, and that's what Lindsay did. She hung in there because she knew venus was unstable.

We talk about Venus' problem being her forehand and her confidence. Some say if she's confident she'll make the forehands, but how can you gain confidence if you can't score the wins that are going to elevate your confidence.

Confidence is not a commodity you pick up at the grocer's on the corner. I think in order to get that confidence Venus has to employ better technique/execution then when/if she starts hauling in those wins the swagger will return. You can not be confident if there's nothing to be confident about or nothing to have confidence in.

Another thing, Venus playing these three tournaments in a row is a huge mistake, IMO. I wish she'd have given herself a week in between because Acura is a huge tournament for her. She has an excellent record there and she should not be overplaying leading into it. But what the hell do I know? I just don't want to see her injured again.
 
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