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I can’t get over everyone treating Kerber like some bridesmaid when she had to play absolutely out of her mind to have the resume she has! :lol:

Her slam runs are some of the most impressive of the decade. She was a dominate number 1.

She is lacking these tier 1’s and mandatories. For whatever reason that doesn’t bother me so much.
I could genuinely see Kerber snagging the French before she retires to have all 4 and ya’ll will be lost puppies.
She was never a dominant #1. Her best results came in the journey to get to #1. But after she got there by virtue of winning the USO, she hardly did anything. She went just 33-19 during her time as #1, and reached just 2 finals, 3 QF, and 1 SF up until she forfeited the #1 after Wimbledon. She had one of the worst seasons as a #1 in 2017, and she wound up falling out of the top 20.

And not having any Tier 1 titles, as well as sporting a 12-18 finals record is part of the reason why she her extra slam doesn't put her clear ahead of 2 slam winners. Yes, she has a silver medal, but from another finals loss. And players like Simo, Vika, Petra, and Naomi have a wider body of work because they have those Tier 1s to compliment their GS. Even Mugu, while having a low title count, still has 2 Tier 1s. Li Na even won one.
 

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The two things I'll add is that it's arguably more impressive that Halep has assembled her results in less time than [Kvitova/Azarenka/Sharapova/etc.] because she is leading or competitive with all of them in the cumulative stats (# of slam finals/SFs/QFs, overall/Tier I titles, etc.) in spite of being sub-elite until 2014. Azarenka and Wozniacki made their top 10 debuts in 2009, Sharapova had obviously been around the top for over half a decade by 2010, and while Kvitova wouldn't crack the top 10 until 2011, she was already a slam SFist. Given Halep didn't crack the top 10 until later, she racked up her achievements in about two-thirds the time as the others.

I don't think that's a core criteria, but when it comes to breaking a tie, I lean towards the player who accomplished equal or comparable achievements in less time.
I can't help but wonder if by that thinking Graf is as big a GOAT as Serena, or if the margin between them becomes thinner and thinner. As Graf accomplished her GS in a lot shorter time than Serena. And yes, I can read. You said you'd use it as a tie breaker if both players ahieved the same. I just like to take if further.
 

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The value of a Premier Mandatory or 5 is not the title itself but the ranking points that enable a player to achieve a far more valid barometer of greatness (the number one ranking).

How many people consider Caroline Garcia (2017 China Open and Wuhan winner), Elena Vesnina (2017 Indian Wells) or Aravane Rezai (2010 Madrid) to be all time great tennis players?
 

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The value of a Premier Mandatory or 5 is not the title itself but the ranking points that enable a player to achieve a far more valid barometer of greatness (the number one ranking).

How many people consider Caroline Garcia (2017 China Open and Wuhan winner), Elena Vesnina (2017 Indian Wells) or Aravane Rezai (2010 Madrid) to be all time great tennis players?
Winning Tier Is and consistently reaching the later stages of Grand Slams is the barometer for comparing players with a similar number of Slams, imo. Kerber being Tier I-less is part of the reason why she's not in the same league as, for example, Davenport or Sánchez Vicario.
 

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Winning Tier Is and consistently reaching the later stages of Grand Slams is the barometer for comparing players with a similar number of Slams, imo. Kerber being Tier I-less is part of the reason why she's not in the same league as, for example, Davenport or Sánchez Vicario.
Sanchez Vicario has more Slam finals than Kerber has Slam quarterfinals.

ASV reached a Slam SF during 12 consecutive seasons (8 for Davenport) and a Slam QF during 14 straight seasons (13 for Davenport). Kerber isn't in the same league at all, you're absolutely right.
 

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Unless there is a new trend to do it every YE, why we do not wait for the 2011-2020 decade to end (in the end of next year) for such statistics?
Seems that people from TC just missed where a "classic" decade starts and where it ends.
 

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People who rank players just for the slams they won are deluded. For instance, Muguruza won two slams; do you think she achieved more than Sabatini, Martinez or Novotna? come on...

Kerber won three slams but she doesn't have a better career than players like Azarenka, Mauresmo, Kvitova or even Wozniacki.
 

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I can't help but wonder if by that thinking Graf is as big a GOAT as Serena, or if the margin between them becomes thinner and thinner. As Graf accomplished her GS in a lot shorter time than Serena. And yes, I can read. You said you'd use it as a tie breaker if both players ahieved the same. I just like to take if further.
Exactly, if they´re not even sure if Kerber had a better career than Azarenka, Halep or some of the other 2 slammers with 33% less slams than Kerber, then Graf should be clearly ahead of Williams having only 4% less slams but more titles, the calender slam, 4 slams in every slam, more weeks #1, 8 vs 5 year end #1 and achieving all in almost half the time
 

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Discussion Starter #113

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I can’t get over everyone treating Kerber like some bridesmaid when she had to play absolutely out of her mind to have the resume she has! :lol:

Her slam runs are some of the most impressive of the decade. She was a dominate number 1.

She is lacking these tier 1’s and mandatories. For whatever reason that doesn’t bother me so much.
I could genuinely see Kerber snagging the French before she retires to have all 4 and ya’ll will be lost puppies.
Dominant? That's a very dubious claim.

But let's ignore that and see what is ahead. If as you say Kerber wins one more slam — any slam (doesn't have to be French) then obviously she will make this debate really complicated. I mean, she is already second best in slams right now (and as you said she earned every single one of them as much as anyone ever earned a slam) — yet at teh same time, she's not even third or fourth in other metrics

 

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right because Serena's level of play was the same in 2013 and 2018
To be honest, I feel like this affected Azarenka more than any other player. When she was still playing well and reaching slam semis and finals Serena not choking especially in slam finals. After Serena came back from pregnancy she was a completely different player just wilting against anybody in slam finals. Other players were able to capitalize but after Azarenka was forced to take a break due to legal issues over her child her game never was the same. I know she would've loved to have competed in a slam final with a completely nervous Serena who played like shit for the entire match. She never got that. lol
 

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To be honest, I feel like this affected Azarenka more than any other player. When she was still playing well and reaching slam semis and finals Serena not choking especially in slam finals. After Serena came back from pregnancy she was a completely different player just wilting against anybody in slam finals. Other players were able to capitalize but after Azarenka was forced to take a break due to legal issues over her child her game never was the same. I know she would've loved to have competed in a slam final with a completely nervous Serena who played like shit for the entire match. She never got that. lol
I always wondered what would have happened if Vika had continued her 2016 form throughout the year. She’d already won the sunshine double before announcing her pregnancy. I really think Vika would’ve had a shot at US Open that year, but we’ll never know.


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