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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
2009 SR/TB Rules.

The TT OOP should have in its contents:

-The Round for which you are tipping;
-15 Set Ratio matches and 3 of those should be Tie Break matches too;
-The person/people picks should be sent to and the deadline to send picks.

Procedures to determine a winner:

1-The player who has more correct tips is the victor.
In the case of a tie in the number of correct tips the victor should be determined by this order:

2-Set Ratios:
Player A wins if he has more correct set ratios than player B. In case there is a tie in the number of correct SR's you should use the SR shootout method.

3-SR Shooutout:
If both players have the same number of SRs correct then you'll have to look at the SR's by their order and check who's the first player to have a SR correct while the other hasn't.
Eg.

Venus wins in 2; Zheng wins in 3.

Let's look at SR1: Both have Venus in 2.
Let's look at SR2: Player A has Zheng in 2 vs. Player B has Zheng in 3.

Zheng won in 3. Player B is the winner.

Unlike the TB procedures, if a player gives a set to the winner and the other player does not, you do not win on the SR shootout. It must be a correct set ratio.
A set ratio shootout implies identical winners. If one person had Venus, for example, and the other had Dulko. The one who chose Venus would win on SR1.

If a winner isn't determined after this we'll use the TB method.

4-Tie Breaks:

In case Player A and Player B chose the correct winner for the TB1 match and both have the correct/incorrect Set Ratio for that match, winner should be determined by this order:

Player has 2 set scores in the correct order > Player has 2 set scores in the wrong order > Player has 1 set score in the right order > Player has 1 set score in the wrong order.

If you can't find a winner after all this use the who's closer method:

Example: Sharapova wins a match 6-3 6-3

Player A chose her: 6-0 6-0
Player B chose her: 7-6 7-6

Total number of games in Sharapova match: 6+3+6+3=18
Total number of games in Player A pick: 6+0+6+0=12
Total number of games in Player B pick: 7+6+7+6=26

Player A: |18-12|=6
Player B: |18-26|=8

Player A wins as he is closer to the real score.

In case you chose the loser for the TB1 match:
Player A and Player B chose the loser of the TB1 match but Player A gives a set to the winner and Player B doesn't --> Player A wins.
Player A and Player B chose the loser of the TB1 match and no player gives a set to the winner ---> Use TB2/TB3 and do the same steps.
None of the TB's could produce a winner after using this method --> Use the old TB method where the Player who gives the winner the most games will win.

5-CB/”Looking Forwards”:

In Case everything is tied after the use of the TB’s use tournament Countback (CB) as a manner of untying things. If, after the use of CB everything is still tied make players send for the next round and the one with the best picks will win.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Re: Tie Break Rules 2008 (first post contains info)

I decided to open this thread (after talking to some other people) because it is obvious that people continue with doubts about the rules and the other thread was mixed with the old TB Rules..

if you can't understand this post or you still have doubts please ask them here or send pm's to one of the board members or some other experienced managers (James,...)
 

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Re: Tie Break Rules 2008 (first post contains info)

Code:
[U][I][B]In case you chose the loser for the TB1 match:[/B][/I][/U] 

3. None of the TB's could produce a winner after using this method --> Use the old TB method where [B]the Player who gives the winner the most games will win[/B].
 
4. Both Players give the same number of games to the winner use the who's closer to the score method:
 
[B]Example:[/B] Sharapova wins a match 6-3 6-3
 
Player A chose her: 0-6 0-6
Player B chose her: 6-7 6-7
 
Total number of games in Sharapova match: 6+3+6+3=18
Total number of games in Player A pick: 6+0+6+0=12
Total number of games in Player B pick: 7+6+7+6=26
 
Player A: |18-12|=6
Player B: |18-26|=8
 
Player A wins as he is closer to the real score.




i have a problem~~~~

for you example,

Sharapova wins a match 6-3 6-3, Player A chose her: 0-6 0-6,Player B chose her: 6-7 6-7;

so Player A give the winner(Sharapova) 0 game; Player B give the winner(Sharapova) 12 games.

USE step 3 , "the Player who gives the winner the most games will win" , so Player B wins.

so the example never used by step 4, 'cause the match has decided the winner by step 3.

BTW, i think the rule is not fair, 'cause the same match, use step 3 ,Player B wins; but use step 4 ,Player A wins, so strange~~~~

i think rules should del "the Player who gives the winner the most games will win" , i think the step 3 and step 4 is " if None of the TB's could produce a winner , player wins whose is closer to the real score "

hope i understand the rules in right way = =!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Re: Tie Break Rules 2008 (first post contains info)

Good Point Leoneo, that was one was useless ;) thank you :)
 

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Re: Tie Break Rules 2008 (first post contains info)

Good Point Leoneo, that was one was useless ;) thank you :)
My pleasure :drool:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Re: Tie Break Rules 2008 (first post contains info)

this thread wasn't visible anymore...please someone stick it :)
 

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Re: Tie Break Rules 2008 (first post contains info)

up!~ :)
 

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Re: Tie Break Rules 2008 (first post contains info)

I've already addressed this with a member of the board but since certain players think its best to address the matter publicly I propose that the clause in the TB rules saying that 1 set in the wrong order is greater than guessing the closest score should be removed since guessing a correct set in the wrong order is more up to chance than anything and does nothing to say that the winner actually predicted the match more accurately. If further explanation is required feel free to ask me or PM me.

Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Updated but i ask the rest of the board members and even the rest of the players to check it cause i may have forgotten something.
 

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Thanks!

Now I need your help :lol:.

TT Fes, doubles SF:
^bibi^/Ballbasher (BEL/MNE) vs. lucian_iasi/Ranadalara (ROU/COL, LL)
No differences in picks or SRs (0 pts, 0 SRs each).
TB1: not counted
TB2: Kleybanova 63 64, 76 26 63 vs. 63 46 64, 75 64
=> both picked the loser, no one gave more sets to the winner
=> use old TB method (who gave the most games to the winner): 22 games each!
=> use countback: both teams had 8 pts yesterday but lucian_iasi/Ranadalara lead in SRs: all correct (8/8), while ^bibi^/Ballbasher only had 5/8.
=> lucian_iasi/Ranadalara win.

This is what I did to find a winner here, following the new rules.

STILL, Ballbasher gave a 62 set to Makarova but the rules don't specify that picking a loser and giving a correct set to the winner gives an advantage, only the number of games count in this case.

Who wins? :unsure:
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Just saw they are equal even in all their md matches.

So i think you're correct in what you did. let another board member give an answer just to be sure.
 

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I propose the following rule changes for 2010:-

Tie-Break Rules

1-The player who has more correct tips is the victor.
In the case of a tie in the number of correct tips the victor should be determined by this order:

2-Set Ratios:
Player A wins if he has more correct set ratios than player B. In case there is a tie in the number of correct SR's you should use the SR shootout method.

3-SR Shootout:
If both players have the same number of SRs correct then you'll have to look at the SR's by their order and check who's the first player to have a SR correct while the other hasn't.

New Rule: In the case of identical SR score and no SR shootout winner, then re-check the SR's by their order and when both players pick the loser, the shoot-out win goes to the one who gave more sets to the winner.

If a winner isn't determined after this we go to the existing TB method.

Retirements

New Rule: The match result will be counted if one set has been completed. SR's will not be counted for any matches where a player retires.


Justification for the above rule changes

The present rules for SR shootout automatically ignore out any matches where both players pick the loser. In my honest opinion this is WRONG. Many TT players players only ever play 6-4 6-3 and pick 2-0 SR's which is a well known FACT. They know that even if their opponent predicts 2-1 (and then the player loses) then this match isn't going to be counted in the TB rules. By saying both of you picked the wrong winner stops players from picking 2-1 SR's because they know that the majority of matches are won by 2-0 sets. So a player who thinks that an outsider may take a set is discouraged from predicting 2-1 because of the current rules. The new proposed rule will therefore reward the players who give a set to the winner.

With regards to retirements, we all know that for >90% of matches where there is a retirement, the player who retires is normally losing the match at the point of retirement (I am prepared to check through all 2009 WTA matches if necessary to back up this FACT). Therefore if one set has been completed and a player retires, then the match should be counted as a win - obviously the SR cannot be counted. For example, today Kirilenko won the first set 6-1 vs Schiavone and was 1-2 in the second set when Schiavone retired. If Schiavone had continued to the end of this match, then Kirilenko (who did not start as favourite to win this match) was highly likely to have won this match. Those TT players who picked Kirlenko were not rewarded for taking a risk on picking Kirlenko and many of those players lost their matches only because this TB1 match was not counted.

I will quote my QF match at TT Seoul today as an example of how the current rules are not working:-

My picks vs my opponent:

TB1 Kirilenko vs Schiavone
TB2 Dushevina 64 76 vs 64 63
TB3 Kleybanova 2-1 vs Kleybanova 2-0

Actual results:-

TB1 Kirilenko 61 12 Ret
TB2 Dushevina 75 61
TB3 Date Krumm 46 76 63

My opponent won the match on TB2. Clearly, I picked the actual winner of TB1 and also gave a set to the winner in TB3, so without any doubt, my picks were significantly closer to the actual match scores - yet my opponent won the match on TB2. I was not rewarded for picking the outsider in TB1 and also was not rewarded for giving a set to the outsider in TB3 (who went on to win the match).

If you firmly believe that my opponent deserved to win this match then you will vote that the rules should not be changed. If, however, you agree that my picks deserved to win today, then you will vote to change for a change in the rules for the 2010 season.

I sincerely ask that the TT board considers the implementation of the above two rules for the 2010 season.

Thanks
sdtoot :wavey:
 
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