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So because Tsitsipas was broken once in the 3rd set yesterday, he was "weak"? How the fuck does any of this make any sense to you?:lol:
He wasn't broken, he gifted it away, that's the point. Most of the 3rd set was a combination of servebotting and uninspired return games, which is lame AF.

So basically, this was your only reason for posting what doesn't make sense: some kind of insecurity that some people might like an ATP match or tournament better than its female counterpart?:rolleyes: If a clean match dominated by winners and offensive play and variety and athleticism between 2 technically gifted players don't appeal to you, I'm curious to know what the hell kind of matches do you then enjoy? Cos it's a real puzzle. Did you need to see maybe some more double faults and moonballs to appeal to your tastes?
A bunch of good rallies/shots are easily overshadowed by mental weakness paired with servebotting and lacklustre returning. Hyping up male mediocrity is one of the main pillars of sexism, that's what bothers me. :x
 

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He wasn't broken, he gifted it away, that's the point. Most of the 3rd set was a combination of servebotting and uninspired return games, which is lame AF.



A bunch of good rallies/shots are easily overshadowed by mental weakness paired with servebotting and lacklustre returning. Hyping up male mediocrity is one of the main pillars of sexism, that's what bothers me. :x
If this forum was discussing the ATP Finals, it would be about 2 slamless hacks in a fake final with a slamless choker losing this final to another slamless clown. It would be a bloodbath!
The WTA Final was the Player of the Year beating the defending champion. This was 2 slamless players when the 3 who won 55 majors already out, and this forum would jave imploded
 
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Anyone who saw that first set of tennis between Thiem and Tsitsipas and came away thinking "meh" is, as has been said, not a tennis fan.

As for the topic of this thread yes there were two Slam finalists competing but WHO SAW IT? I always rail against the WTA's so called marketing team (do they exist) but even with the best marketing very few in Europe or the Western Hemisphere were going to get up to watch a match in Asia at some god awful hour of the morning.

We can argue until the cows come home about who has the better players but the bottom line is if no one sees it no one will care. People will be talking about yesterday's match all through the "off" season. As the saying goes "out of sight, out of mind".
 

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He wasn't broken, he gifted it away, that's the point. Most of the 3rd set was a combination of servebotting and uninspired return games, which is lame AF.

A bunch of good rallies/shots are easily overshadowed by mental weakness paired with servebotting and lacklustre returning. Hyping up male mediocrity is one of the main pillars of sexism, that's what bothers me. :x
Tsitsipas was broken just once in 16 of his service games and 3 fucking sets of tennis playing the biggest match of his life and that singular dip in his serving level means he was "weak"?:spit: I watched the actual match you're talking about and you're just concocting a lot of twaddle. Nobody is claiming Tsitsipas-Thiem is the match of the century. Like in 99.9% of matches, there were dips in level by either player here and there. But it was a match of high quality and entertainment to anyone who knows just about anything about tennis. Suggesting otherwise is just revealing of a very petty, grievance-driven, anti-ATP agenda which you have made clear is the only thing driving your comments. And that's childish.
 

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If this forum was discussing the ATP Finals, it would be about 2 slamless hacks in a fake final with a slamless choker losing this final to another slamless clown. It would be a bloodbath!
The WTA Final was the Player of the Year beating the defending champion. This was 2 slamless players when the 3 who won 55 majors already out, and this forum would jave imploded
Nah.....people credit good tennis when they see it. Halep and Wozniacki were slamless when they met in last year's Australian Open final and they got a lot of credit for putting on a good show. ATP finals have been criticized before like when Dimitrov won in 2017, and even Zverev winning last year, because the Big 3 were out of form or absent. Federer and Djokovic brought a good level to this tournament and got rolled over by Thiem (who is now 5-2 over Federer), so he deserves a lot of credit for the level he showed.
 

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As much as I dislike Tsitsipas (can't tell exactly why :lol:) he was great in the final. Apart from a bad game serving at 3-2 in the third set, and he still managed to regroup, his level was consistently great (even during Thiem's second set walkabout he was still pretty much peaking). Thiem was so clutch, winning the first set when he wasn't really the better player, and digging himself out of one bad situation after another, although ironically that cruel shanked easy FH at 4-4 in the TB sealed the match when it looked like he was going to finally manage to edge Tsitsipas out. Overall it was a high quality match with a nailbiter ending and the crowd loving it. Both players were understandably feeling the pressure, but were also raising their levels when they had to. It was decided on such a slight margins, and even if I would have loved Thiem to have won, there's absolutely no way I can say that Tsitsipas didn't deserve it 100%. I am sorry to say I enjoyed it more than the whole YEC, which turned out to be such a dud, put together.
 

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As much as I dislike Tsisipas (can't tell exactly why :lol:) he was great in the final. Apart from a bad game serving at 3-2 in the third set, and he still managed to regroup, his level was consistently great (even during Thiem's second set walkabout he was still pretty much peaking). Thiem was so clutch, winning the first set when he wasn't really the better player, and digging himself out of one bad situation after another, although ironically that cruel shanked easy FH at 4-4 in the TB sealed the match when it looked like he was going to finally manage to edge Tsisipas out. Overall it was a high quality match with a nailbiter ending and the crowd loving it. Both players were understandably feeling the pressure, but were also raising their levels when they had to. It was decided on such a slight margins, and even if I would have loved Thiem to have won, there's absolutely no way I can say that tsisipas didn't deserve it 100%. I am sorry to say I enjoyed it more than the whole YEC, which turned out to be such a dud, put together.
I supported Thiem as well, but Tsitsipas was just better suited to the conditions - taking the ball earlier, redirecting well, finishing really well at the net and serving brilliantly. Was a great match, but the match-of-the-tournament was Thiem-Djokovic in the round robins. Brutal hitting.
 

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The whole tournament was brilliant, the best version in years - literally everyday you had something positive / interesting.

Sun - Thiem beating Fed in 2 tight sets
Mon - Nadal well beaten by the defending champ (Paris injury wouldn't have helped)
Tue - MOTY candidate between Thiem-Djokovic
Wed - Nadal coming back from 1-5 and a match point to beat Medvedev, to keep his hopes alive
Thu - Fed putting earlier London heartbreak behind him by eliminating Djokovic in a straight shootout between 2 legends, and simultaneously handing another legend the YE #1
Fri - Nadal and Tsitipas going nearly 3 hours with Nadal just about keeping his hopes alive, and then the #1 presentation, but not enough as Zverev did his job later that evening.
Sat - Probably the least interesting day, but Tsitsipas backing up his AO win over Federer to book his place in his biggest final to date
Sun - Another cracking match in front of a packed, fully invented, 18,000 crowd, at a convenient time for the traditional European and North American tennis markets.

That compared to basically who can survive the courts in Shenzhen, until the final, which ultimately turned out to be a bit of a damp squib, albeit a very good performance from Barty.
 

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The WTA Tour finals shouldn't be round robin matches and they should be best-of-five sets. That would make it one-of-a-kind.
 

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The WTA Tour finals shouldn't be round robin matches
Disagree. Doing it as a knockout is too random, especially when you look at the upset results which have turned everything round in some editions. Look at Cibulkova for inspiration here - she lost her first two round robin matches and still won the title.


and they should be best-of-five sets. That would make it one-of-a-kind.
They used to be.
 

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For me I always identify the WTA Finals with the Masters in Madison Square Garden, I loved that tournament. That's why I think I prefer the knockout version and five sets for the finals would also be a great idea. But the five-set idea would probably not go down well with the players.
 

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Because it's supposed to move around and had been in London too long already.
not really an answer, why move a successful tournament with maxed out crowds for every match to Torino, seems a random location, New York had it for 15 years, Frankfurt for about 7, London 11, Shanghai 4, that's random as well. Must be following the money.
 

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not really an answer, why move a successful tournament with maxed out crowds for every match to Torino, seems a random location, New York had it for 15 years, Frankfurt for about 7, London 11, Shanghai 4, that's random as well. Must be following the money.
I don't think it was about money given London could probably match the money Turin offered no problem. One thing I do know is they eliminated the non-European tenders (Tokyo and Singapore) because of the impact they'd have on the Paris Masters which already struggles to get a full field (I wouldn't have minded Paris getting axed) and London and Manchester were eliminated for being more of the same.
 

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At that point of the season, both players and fans were mostly tired of it. The slam season was over and people were indifferent.

With that said, would love to see it rotate to different venues like the Superbowl.
 

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The problem with the YEC is that it’s too far away and separate from the Slams. It should be New York in September and then YEC by end of September/beginning of October. By November I’m burnt out on tennis and likely tired of it from the boring Asian Swing. They should re-arrange the Asian Swing and give players a longer off season to prevent all these injuries we see nowadays.
 

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not really an answer, why move a successful tournament with maxed out crowds for every match to Torino, seems a random location, New York had it for 15 years, Frankfurt for about 7, London 11, Shanghai 4, that's random as well. Must be following the money.
It was definitely what some players felt that it should move around
Here is Djokovic http://www.tennisnow.com/Blogs/NET-POSTS/March-2019/Djokovic-Maybe-It-s-Time-To-Move-ATP-Finals.aspx


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It was definitely what some players felt that it should move around
Here is Djokovic Djokovic: Maybe It's Time To Move ATP Finals


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It would be a fun concept if each year was hosted on the grounds of each major. So one year its the US Open’s turn to host, then Roland Garros, then Wimbledon, then the Australian Open. This would tie it in with the slams and would help people to correlate it as the “fifth major” it so desperately hopes to be. It would also give players incentive to play and practice on the courts, and I’m sure the level of play would be higher because they are used to the playing conditions. Alas, the only problem would be Rolland Garros as they don’t have indoor courts, but maybe in the future when Rolland Garros catches up with the times, this can come to fruition.
 
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