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In the 90s until about 2006 though, she was taken way more seriously as an artiste the way she wanted to be, and that’s when she really dragged her 80s output. Especially during Ray of Light/Music eras. Even then it definitely wasn’t everything 80s related, only what gave her the Boytoy/Material Girl image. If she’d toured more in the 90s instead of cramming 3 albums into the Drowned World Tour in 2001, we probably would have seen more performances and recognition of 80s hits like Live To Tell, Like a Prayer, Borderline, OpenYour Heart, butwhen you’re trying to market successful records like ROL and Music 15 years into your career why would you want to be associated with Material Girl. 10 years later when she jumped on the Timbaland bandwagon and straight into trying to be a 25 year old pop-star again she definitely softened towards her big 80s pop hits and accepted them as part of her legacy. She even performed Into The Groove, Like a Virgin and Material Girl a couple times, bitch even pulled out Crazy For You, Who’s That Girl and True Blue. I’ll be dead if she whips out Causing a Commotion at 70 😭🤠

Not everyone can be like Chair and continuously sing the same 70s hits on your 2773th farewell tour, only to start making albums of songs from ANOTHER 70s nostalgia act 🤭
That is an impressive knowledge! :cool:

I once read that back in the 80's, during the auge of the new wave/new romantic age, the UK radios would sometimes organize competitions among listeners to crown the most popular band at the time... Duran Duran fans would always outvote the Culture Club ones and that was pretty much resented by that band's followers and even allegedly by Boy George himself... OTOH, Culture Club enjoyed certain critical acclaim and some respect that was always negated to Duran Duran, which was upsetting to the Birmingham band...

I always wondered if the same situation could have existed between Madonna and Michael Jackson and Prince... Both Madonna and Michael Jackson were outselling Prince by the millions, but Prince enjoyed most of the critics and musical experts acclaims and accolades, and was considered to be a more serious and genial artist by them, as opposed to a "pop phenomenon" with the negative implication that title carries among the specialized Press... Do you think some kind of ill or not so positive feeling could have been prevalent among those artists because of that?
 

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^ I think artists are humans who evolve, and sometime dislike what they did in the past because of that evolution. Some learn to accept it on the way, becoming aware that this evolution doesn't have to be retrospectively negative. Some still dislike it radically because they know, better than anyone, what was their mindset when they did it. At some point anyway, what they did is out of hands and belongs to the people who appreciate it. The artists who mean to take absolute control of their work, who mean to forbid some stuff, and re-working other stuff, are mistaken in my opinion. You won't change history, what is released is released. Opinions on the works evolve all the time as well, no matter what you think right now. I change my mind so often I've become aware of that. It's sometime hilarious how you can fully enjoy a record one time, and totally miss it another time (if you ever miss it, to boot - who says that you're right when you love it? Etc, etc 🤡)
 

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That is an impressive knowledge! :cool:

I once read that back in the 80's, during the auge of the new wave/new romantic age, the UK radios would sometimes organize competitions among listeners to crown the most popular band at the time... Duran Duran fans would always outvote the Culture Club ones and that was pretty much resented by that band's followers and even allegedly by Boy George himself... OTOH, Culture Club enjoyed certain critical acclaim and some respect that was always negated to Duran Duran, which was upsetting to the Birmingham band...

I always wondered if the same situation could have existed between Madonna and Michael Jackson and Prince... Both Madonna and Michael Jackson were outselling Prince by the millions, but Prince enjoyed most of the critics and musical experts acclaims and accolades, and was considered to be a more serious and genial artist by them, as opposed to a "pop phenomenon" with the negative implication that title carries among the specialized Press... Do you think some kind of ill or not so positive feeling could have been prevalent among those artists because of that?
Well there would have to be a lot of speculation and a lot of contrasting dynamics among them. It‘s well known Michael lived for awards and recognition, he was also very aware of people were saying about him, and he wanted to be known as a great artist. Prince and Michael showed a lot of animosity for eachother but also like a weird affection? Prince was clearly more talented, he had a better voice, better songwriting skills, he could dance and was well known for playing a wide array of instruments, however he never had the huge commercial success that Michael had or the awards. That to me always seemed like what made the rivalry. Then you bring Madonna into the equation, and you have Prince who never really praised her yet never quite put her down, she seemed somewhat irrelevant to him. Michael LOATHED her, and although apparently it was because of things she said about Janet, like the rest of the 80s, Michael just couldn’t comprehend a woman in Madonna‘s position. He was always uncomfortable with women imagine how uncomfortable he was with a woman as outspoken, independent and dominant as her. It speaks a lot about her character though that she always unwaveringly looked up to the two of them, even when Michael was really nasty about her in the press. Now 40 years later in the 2020s Madonna‘s the one who eventually won, still making records at 60, surrounded by a loving family and still provoking people like no celebrity ever has. While the other two... 👀
 

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Well there would have to be a lot of speculation and a lot of contrasting dynamics among them. It‘s well known Michael lived for awards and recognition, he was also very aware of people were saying about him, and he wanted to be known as a great artist. Prince and Michael showed a lot of animosity for eachother but also like a weird affection? Prince was clearly more talented, he had a better voice, better songwriting skills, he could dance and was well known for playing a wide array of instruments, however he never had the huge commercial success that Michael had or the awards. That to me always seemed like what made the rivalry. Then you bring Madonna into the equation, and you have Prince who never really praised her yet never quite put her down, she seemed somewhat irrelevant to him. Michael LOATHED her, and although apparently it was because of things she said about Janet, like the rest of the 80s, Michael just couldn’t comprehend a woman in Madonna‘s position. He was always uncomfortable with women imagine how uncomfortable he was with a woman as outspoken, independent and dominant as her. It speaks a lot about her character though that she always unwaveringly looked up to the two of them, even when Michael was really nasty about her in the press. Now 40 years later in the 2020s Madonna‘s the one who eventually won, still making records at 60, surrounded by a loving family and still provoking people like no celebrity ever has. While the other two... 👀
I mean, being dead is hardly an argument against someone's legacy. But I agree that Madonna won against Michael; she had far more longevity and a much greater impact on society than he did. And she's not a pedophile, that's always a plus.
 

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Well there would have to be a lot of speculation and a lot of contrasting dynamics among them. It‘s well known Michael lived for awards and recognition, he was also very aware of people were saying about him, and he wanted to be known as a great artist. Prince and Michael showed a lot of animosity for eachother but also like a weird affection? Prince was clearly more talented, he had a better voice, better songwriting skills, he could dance and was well known for playing a wide array of instruments, however he never had the huge commercial success that Michael had or the awards. That to me always seemed like what made the rivalry. Then you bring Madonna into the equation, and you have Prince who never really praised her yet never quite put her down, she seemed somewhat irrelevant to him. Michael LOATHED her, and although apparently it was because of things she said about Janet, like the rest of the 80s, Michael just couldn’t comprehend a woman in Madonna‘s position. He was always uncomfortable with women imagine how uncomfortable he was with a woman as outspoken, independent and dominant as her. It speaks a lot about her character though that she always unwaveringly looked up to the two of them, even when Michael was really nasty about her in the press. Now 40 years later in the 2020s Madonna‘s the one who eventually won, still making records at 60, surrounded by a loving family and still provoking people like no celebrity ever has. While the other two... 👀
HI!!
What do you think about I'm following you part. 2 being last in semis with only 33 points??
I believe It's incredible how well was mastered for a 1990 song. I love it but it flopped hard😢
 

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Discussion Starter #86
23 songs nominated so far :

1 AdeyC
2 DuaZeepa
3 Potapovian
4 Laurent Moy
5 Silent Bird
6 SilverPersian
7 chainedtomaria
8 Poldo
9 Hugues Daniel
10 N.M.
11 Sammo
12 Pierre.
13 Mauriac
14 DropShotAce
15 Queen Vika
16 Lord Choc Ice
17 Beat
18 The Crow
19 Northstar
20 Fortitude
21 JMG
22 Number19
23 SRB Analyst
 

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Then you bring Madonna into the equation, and you have Prince who never really praised her yet never quite put her down, she seemed somewhat irrelevant to him.
but they recorded a song together, didn't they? sounds like that was for commercial reasons only?
 

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Well there would have to be a lot of speculation and a lot of contrasting dynamics among them. It‘s well known Michael lived for awards and recognition, he was also very aware of people were saying about him, and he wanted to be known as a great artist. Prince and Michael showed a lot of animosity for eachother but also like a weird affection? Prince was clearly more talented, he had a better voice, better songwriting skills, he could dance and was well known for playing a wide array of instruments, however he never had the huge commercial success that Michael had or the awards. That to me always seemed like what made the rivalry. Then you bring Madonna into the equation, and you have Prince who never really praised her yet never quite put her down, she seemed somewhat irrelevant to him. Michael LOATHED her, and although apparently it was because of things she said about Janet, like the rest of the 80s, Michael just couldn’t comprehend a woman in Madonna‘s position. He was always uncomfortable with women imagine how uncomfortable he was with a woman as outspoken, independent and dominant as her. It speaks a lot about her character though that she always unwaveringly looked up to the two of them, even when Michael was really nasty about her in the press. Now 40 years later in the 2020s Madonna‘s the one who eventually won, still making records at 60, surrounded by a loving family and still provoking people like no celebrity ever has. While the other two... 👀
Prince had a better voice than Michael?
[citation needed]
 

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Serge Gainsbourg and Jane Birkin were controversial back in 1971.
 

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but they recorded a song together, didn't they? sounds like that was for commercial reasons only?
Yes they did! Love Song on Like a Prayer. She wanted it to be a single, possibly over Like a Prayer itself, but if I recall correctly he didn’t like it very much and hated the idea of doing a video with her. I think Sheila E said it after he died?
 

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Yes they did! Love Song on Like a Prayer. She wanted it to be a single, possibly over Like a Prayer itself, but if I recall correctly he didn’t like it very much and hated the idea of doing a video with her. I think Sheila E said it after he died?
Do u like Dick Tracy OST?
 

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Prince had a better voice than Michael?
[citation needed]
Coincidentally Prince came on the radio today on my way to work today and I was kind of struck by what he could do with his voice. I definitely think it was more versatile, able to be soft and sultry (can you use that for a man?) and then this really high pitched runs that were almost gospel like. I’ve always found everything about Michael‘s music, including his voice, underwhelming? It just seems to be there, he doesn’t really add anything to the song. In fact you could have Janet, who is vocally way inferior to all 3, sing his songs and I really wouldn’t notice.
 

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Coincidentally Prince came on the radio today on my way to work today and I was kind of struck by what he could do with his voice. I definitely think it was more versatile, able to be soft and sultry (can you use that for a man?) and then this really high pitched runs that were almost gospel like. I’ve always found everything about Michael‘s music, including his voice, underwhelming? It just seems to be there, he doesn’t really add anything to the song. In fact you could have Janet, who is vocally way inferior to all 3, sing his songs and I really wouldn’t notice.
Fair enough :). I think Michael had his own thing too, a lot of his songs sound half screamed which not all singers could do without hurting themselves after a while. Janet included :p. Plus his voice was ideal for soft ballads. I put them kinda equal.
 
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