Tennis Forum banner

241 - 260 of 534 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,216 Posts
trivfun said:
I guess what I mean is why the media is treating Pauline Betz like she has something to hide? All this mystery, why? And that goes for players like Brough, Fry, DuPont, and Hart as well. Maybe it was that generation that kept quiet about things. Yet, Sarah Palfrey Cooke is celebrated, Maureen Connolly as well as Althea Gibson. Yet Pauline is a bit underplayed like Maria Bueno. Margaret Court was the same way until she became a preacher and made homophobic statements. What sad about it is these players are still alive but no interviews or "Sports Century." It is as if they are in the witness protection program for something. But I don't know what?


Switching subjects I read a book called "Sports Dykes." There was interview about a famous athlete (no mention of sports) who went by the name of Carol (to hide her identity).The interview took place around 1979 or 1980. She said that she made up that story of being engaged to a war hero and put an engagement ring for effect. However, that nobody believed her.
Sarah Palfrey Danzig didn't come up through the Perry-controlled Southern California system, she came through on the Eastern circuit, and she was very good, lifelong best friends with Pauline Betz- Bobbie will tell you this herself. Bobbie had nothing but respect for Sarah (and I can attest, she wrote a beautiful little note to me 15 years ago in response for an autograph request- lovely lady who is sorely missed). If you ever get a chance to read the little pocket tennis instruction book Sarah wrote, do it. As far as her being responsible for Pauline being declared a pro and ineligible, Sarah most certainly had nothing to do with it. Pauline had a reputation for paling around with the boys, and could turn a card as fast at a poker table as the best of them. Her biggest mistake was romancing with and eventually joining a travelling tour (she didn't even play tennis- ping pong and a few other exhibition sports- she was that good) with Bobby Riggs, a famous gambler. The USLTA and the Southern California Tennis Association caught wind of her simply considering turning professional and touring (no contracts or details were ever finalized), and banned her from playing amateur events. It was all political and a control factor. Much like Pancho Gonzalez, history tends to reward actual results, and when you look at the short few years where Pauline was an amateur and won a couple of majors, they don't stand out in the record books, unfortunately. Bob Addie was a Washington Post sportswriter, and a good one. By the 50s, Pauline was pretty much detached from tennis, and as far as not being there as a mother, I've never heard that, and can't imagine it to be farther from the truth. There is simply no reason I have seen or read to be tearing at the reputation of Pauline Betz Addie, so please, unless you have concrete evidence to offer, leave Bobbie alone- she deserves better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,895 Posts
alfajeffster said:
Sarah Palfrey Danzig didn't come up through the Perry-controlled Southern California system, she came through on the Eastern circuit, and she was very good, lifelong best friends with Pauline Betz- Bobbie will tell you this herself. Bobbie had nothing but respect for Sarah (and I can attest, she wrote a beautiful little note to me 15 years ago in response for an autograph request- lovely lady who is sorely missed). If you ever get a chance to read the little pocket tennis instruction book Sarah wrote, do it. As far as her being responsible for Pauline being declared a pro and ineligible, Sarah most certainly had nothing to do with it. Pauline had a reputation for paling around with the boys, and could turn a card as fast at a poker table as the best of them. Her biggest mistake was romancing with and eventually joining a travelling tour (she didn't even play tennis- ping pong and a few other exhibition sports- she was that good) with Bobby Riggs, a famous gambler. The USLTA and the Southern California Tennis Association caught wind of her simply considering turning professional and touring (no contracts or details were ever finalized), and banned her from playing amateur events. It was all political and a control factor. Much like Pancho Gonzalez, history tends to reward actual results, and when you look at the short few years where Pauline was an amateur and won a couple of majors, they don't stand out in the record books, unfortunately. Bob Addie was a Washington Post sportswriter, and a good one. By the 50s, Pauline was pretty much detached from tennis, and as far as not being there as a mother, I've never heard that, and can't imagine it to be farther from the truth. There is simply no reason I have seen or read to be tearing at the reputation of Pauline Betz Addie, so please, unless you have concrete evidence to offer, leave Bobbie alone- she deserves better.
I'm sure Katherine Hepburn is laughing at that one. :lol: The only Bobby I know is Dandridge and man was he fast. With Pancho, I believed it had to do with him not signing autographs, war with Jack Kramer & Tony Trabert, and his Mexican heritage.

I really believe Jack did try to hold him down somewhat because he wanted Ted Schroeder on his pro tour but Pancho was better. Jack characterized him as a sullen person because he lost to Jack many times at first. Yet, when Pancho started to beat Kramer, Jack got defensive. It seemed he like was manipulating with history by giving his own version of Pancho not playing many tournaments, the rule change of not allowing coming to net after one bounce, and allowing Ken Rosewall to compete by giving higher gate percentages for awhile. My point is as long as Jack Kramer is alive, you will not hear the true story. Pauline was on Jack's tour and it was because of Pauline dominance that Jack concluded that women's tennis will never be popular like the men. The story goes that Bobby Riggs asked Pauline to sprain her ankle against Gussie Moran and Pauline cried saying she couldn't do it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,216 Posts
trivfun said:
I'm sure Katherine Hepburn is laughing at that one. :lol: The only Bobby I know is Dandridge and man was he fast.
There are only two "e's" in Kate's name. I'll let you figure out where they go, Dorothy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,895 Posts
alfajeffster said:
There are only two "e's" in Kate's name. I'll let you figure out where they go, Dorothy.

Dorthy Bundy was Pauline's friend and teammate at Rollins College where Jack Kramer went as well. Dorthy went by DoDo. The thing was Spencer was married to Louise Treadwell the whole time he was seeing Kate and Pauline.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,216 Posts
trivfun said:
Dorthy Bundy was Pauline's friend and teammate at Rollins College where Jack Kramer went as well. Dorthy went by DoDo. The thing was Spencer was married to Louise Treadwell the whole time he was seeing Kate and Pauline.
And so what are you suggesting here, that Pauline and Kate were tramps? You'll forgive me for asking you to explain so much of what you write, but some of it doesn't make sense to me, and if I don't understand, I ask.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,895 Posts
alfajeffster said:
And so what are you suggesting here, that Pauline and Kate were tramps? You'll forgive me for asking you to explain so much of what you write, but some of it doesn't make sense to me, and if I don't understand, I ask.

Nah, Spencer did his working class charm on those two. Once he does that, nothing can be stopped.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,216 Posts
trivfun said:
Nah, Spencer did his working class charm on those two. Once he does that, nothing can be stopped.
Laurence Olivier was once asked which actor in Hollywood he liked to watch ply his craft, and his answer was Spencer Tracy. I have to tell you, you hit the proverbial nail on the head with me on Spence. He's one of my top-five all time actors, and I still like watching him in virtually anything but "The Old Man and the Sea", but I won't go there in this thread. So refresh my memory, why again is Pauline Betz being discussed in a thread entitled "The History of Homosexuality in Tennis"?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,895 Posts
The mystery and quietness of these players particularly from the 1930's to the 1950's. There is a masonic thing about them whether it is there sexuality or their ancestry. I think it is until the Williams sisters came along and put boldness in their game that all the top players were like that. But even the Williams sisters are like that.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
25,254 Posts
Discussion Starter #249
The mystery and quietness of these players particularly from the 1930's to the 1950's. There is a masonic thing about them whether it is there sexuality or their ancestry. I think it is until the Williams sisters came along and put boldness in their game that all the top players were like that. But even the Williams sisters are like that.
IMO a lot of the "mystery and quietness" of the era is a reflection of the time and place they lived in. Sex in any form wasn't locked up in a Victorian closet, but it wasn't paraded around in public like today either. When it comes to a lot of things I prefer the 30s to today.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,895 Posts
Rollo said:
IMO a lot of the "mystery and quietness" of the era is a reflection of the time and place they lived in. Sex in any form wasn't locked up in a Victorian closet, but it wasn't paraded around in public like today either. When it comes to a lot of things I prefer the 30s to today.

I like the 1930's as well but not in terms of abuse that so many survivors suffered during that time like Alice Marble.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
674 Posts
Rollo said:
IMO a lot of the "mystery and quietness" of the era is a reflection of the time and place they lived in. Sex in any form wasn't locked up in a Victorian closet, but it wasn't paraded around in public like today either. When it comes to a lot of things I prefer the 30s to today.
What you seem to be saying is that people in this era showed some dignity, some class. Unfortunately for many, such atributes are far too much to ask these days...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,895 Posts
alfajeffster said:
out, OUT damned spot!
[/IMG]



This what your comments remind me of a picture and song by Maxine Nightingale. Sounds very appropriate for this blog. T

Lead Me On
Maxine Nightingale
(Ali Willis/David Lasley)


I have often heard you say
You love me as a friend
But I love you more than anyone
You know I can’t pretend no longer

I would give you anything
I’d throw my world
But you don’t wanna hear that anymore
And you wanna hear me say

Come on and lead me on
Come on and tease me all night long
Lovin’ you I know it’s right
I’ll always need you, I’ll never leave you

Come on and lead me on
Tease me all night long
I’d rather be a fool with a broken heart
Than someone who never had a part of you

You know I told you from the start
Exactly how I feel
Time goes on, seems nothing’s changed
I’m in love for real

We have never played the games
That real lovers do
So maybe we are better off
But, baby, I’d still like this from you

Come on and lead me on
Come on and tease me all night long
Lovin’ you I know it’s right
I’ll always need you, I’ll never leave you

Come on and lead me on
Tease me all night long
I’d rather be a fool with a broken heart
Than someone who never had a part of you

Come on and lead me on (Come on and lead me)
Come on and tease me all night long (Tease me all night long)
I’d rather be a fool with a broken heart
Than someone who never had a part of you

Come on and lead me on (Come on and lead me)
Tease me all night long (Tease me all night long)
Lovin’ you I know it’s right
I’ll always need you, I’ll never leave you

Come on and lead me on
Tease me all night long
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48,051 Posts
people, how old are you ???U r talking about things that happened in 60s or 70s... huh ! :D

I know that German player Nicolas Kiefer is gay!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,895 Posts
It takes 20 years after they have left the tour for the evidence to appear and 30 years to confirm. LOL. They talked about the 1980's but the 1990's is GiGi and Conchita of course though I do wonder about Arancha and Magadelena Maleeva. The men side I have heard few but none are beyond top 20.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,216 Posts
JustDoIt said:
people, how old are you ???U r talking about things that happened in 60s or 70s... huh ! :D

I know that German player Nicolas Kiefer is gay!
We are very old, and were around in the 60s and 70s. Just to prove I personally am a dirty old man, show us a pic of you and Mr. Kiefer in the shower together, just so I can be sure of what you're saying...:lol:
 
241 - 260 of 534 Posts
Top