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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Sorry if this has been posted before but i just couldn't resist posting this because i found it really interesting .


Taken from the article "Monica Seles: The Champion Who Was, Who Could Have Been And....
By Angela Buxton

Interestingly, sport science has already had a lasting impact on Seles?s career. Back in the ?80s when Seles was developing her game, the LGE group (James Loehr, Jack Groppel and Pat Etcheberry) offered powerful information about enhancing performance through breathing techniques. Exhaling into the action, which LGE advocated, introduced another dimension. Many players, Seles among them, took this new information to the extreme, and exhaling quickly became grunting.

This was good and bad for Seles. It was good because Seles did not hold her breath. On the other hand, as her dominance escalated, jealousy and envy were not far behind. Some in tennis decided to take exception to her grunting. The All England Club (i.e., Wimbledon), unfortunately, was one.

Seles was the odds-on favorite to win Wimbledon in 1992 and, as such, the No. 1 seed. Her only real rival was, of course, Steffi Graf, whom she had just beaten in the French Open final, the match Henin-Hardenne remembers so well. Nathalie Tauziat, in the quarterfinals, and Martina Navratilova, in the semifinals had complained about Seles?s grunting, citing it as a breach of Rule 21:
If a player commits an act which hinders his/her opponent in making a stroke, then if this is deliberate, he/she shall lose the point.

Seles?s exhaling was hardly deliberate, yet Referee Alan Mills was persuaded by the Committee of Management to caution her and introduce a "gruntometer" for the final against Graf. The idea was that if Seles?s grunts went above a certain decibel, she would forfeit the point. Wimbledon?s arrogance and flawed logic has been well-documented and, certainly, belongs to a bygone age. But the Seles family was understandably stunned.

Simply, it was a cruel ploy to bring Seles down, reminiscent of biblical times and strong-man Samson being tricked into having his hair cut to see if that would sap his unusual strength. Both, unfortunately, had the desired effect.

Seles lost tamely to Graf, 6-2, 6-1, and was unrecognizable as the same player.

"I let it get to me, and I decided not to grunt," Seles says now. "[It] definitely wasn?t the right approach in the final at Wimbledon. If I get an opportunity again, I would probably do it differently. I would probably keep grunting. But to have a chance at Wimbledon right now is the least chance I would give myself from all the Grand Slams."

There is sadness in that statement, considering what might have been. Seles?s father, Karolj, who insisted on being her sole advisor, should have persuaded Monica to call Wimbledon?s bluff and ignore their threats. No way would Wimbledon have had the nerve to disqualify their colorful, charismatic and much-publicized star. It would have made Wimbledon look more of a farce than it already was.

Everyone was anxious to see Seles play Graf, particularly bearing in mind that Seles had mysteriously skipped the previous Wimbledon amid false rumors of a quickie marriage, elopement and, even, pregnancy. With or without her grunts, the public simply wanted to witness her superb style of play.

Seles perhaps revealed more of her feelings than she wanted when she once said, "I don?t wish to be remembered as ?The Grunter? or ?The Giggler? or even the girl who got stabbed. Wimbledon is still very special to me because it?s the one Grand Slam [tournament] I?ve never won."

With the insane stabbing nine months after the 1992 Wimbledon farce, it is actually fitting that Seles not only bounced back, but came back within two years as the most popular player on the WTA Tour.
 
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Is Angela Buxton the worst tennis writer in the world? Eeek!

While I was rooting as hard as anyone for Monica on that day in 1992 (cause I hated pre-1998 Steffi!) she was not the 'odds-on favorite'. Yeah she was hands down the number one player in the world, but Steffi was the queen of grass court tennis and had only lost one match at Wimbledon in the past 4 years. Seles was obviously off that day. It was wierd to watch her play without grunting, but Steffi played superb grass court tennis. Steffi's serve, forehand and cat like quickness were overwhelming. Time after time Steffi would hit behind Monica cross court after a long forehand to (monica's) backhand rally. Steffi exploited Monica's lack of mobility that day and it was obvious to anyone that watched.

Don't get me wrong, had Monica grunted I think we would have seen a different scoreline...I just believe Steffi still would have come out a straight set victor that particular day.

Also I do not believe that Wimbledon had the grunt-o-meter...it was a British tabloid. I think Monica was simply warned, which is too bad.

That match was such a terrible disapointment for me after the wonderful French final of just a few weeks before. I wanted Monica to win so badly, but Steffi played one of the greatest Wimbledon matches of her life. I am not sure if a young Navratilova would have beaten her that day.
 

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Mark36 said:
Is Angela Buxton the worst tennis writer in the world? Eeek!

While I was rooting as hard as anyone for Monica on that day in 1992 (cause I hated pre-1998 Steffi!) she was not the 'odds-on favorite'. Yeah she was hands down the number one player in the world, but Steffi was the queen of grass court tennis and had only lost one match at Wimbledon in the past 4 years. Seles was obviously off that day. It was wierd to watch her play without grunting, but Steffi played superb grass court tennis. Steffi's serve, forehand and cat like quickness were overwhelming. Time after time Steffi would hit behind Monica cross court after a long forehand to (monica's) backhand rally. Steffi exploited Monica's lack of mobility that day and it was obvious to anyone that watched.

Don't get me wrong, had Monica grunted I think we would have seen a different scoreline...I just believe Steffi still would have come out a straight set victor that particular day.

Also I do not believe that Wimbledon had the grunt-o-meter...it was a British tabloid. I think Monica was simply warned, which is too bad.

That match was such a terrible disapointment for me after the wonderful French final of just a few weeks before. I wanted Monica to win so badly, but Steffi played one of the greatest Wimbledon matches of her life. I am not sure if a young Navratilova would have beaten her that day.
and to think i have the hots for you....i keep forgetting you were anti-Steffi.... :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :fiery: :mad: :mad: :fiery: :fiery:

but as long as you like her now...i think we can build on this! LOL....but damn...it just seems weird to see a post where you root for Monica... :confused:
 

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Hi Darren...I saw you on tv in Houston last week cheering your advisee Agassi on from the stands! ;)

While I always rooted against Steffi pre-1998, I never missed a single match of hers that was televised. Somehow I patterned my entire game around her (still do) but I could not admit to myself how much I loved her until she was gone. I shocked the crap out of myself by cheering for Steffi over Monica in the 1998 NYC season championships. From then on I was always thinking, 'Monica is young and Steffi is going to retire at any minute....go Steffi!"

Steffi just rubbed me the wrong way when she burst on the scene. i loved her game but she seemed like an automaton and she smacked down my sentimental favorites Martina N and Evert, time and time again. She was such an easy, obvious villian...and then she became Martina N and Evert for me...an old warhorse fighting off the swarming children. Also Steffi's injuries made her seem so fragile and I always feared she would walk away at any minute, fed up with her body failing her so.
 

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now I know why from 1990 steffi kept talking about retirement;)
 

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The final would probably have been more competitive with Monica grunting. But I also think Steffi would probably have won either way.

It was sad for Monica, but in retrospect it was also sad for Steffi as some people will always demand to put an asterisk behind her name because of the grunting, so her win isn't regarded as high as it could have been without all that.
 

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godominique that's crap. mentally distractions in a match don't bring any asterisks at all. I have that from a monica fan

you can't have it both ways!
 

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okee;)
 

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but to be fair many steffi fans put asteriks to monica's results too. it's silly when you think about it;)
 

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Hey Mark...

funny how everything you trashed Steffi for is what attracted me to her in the first place! Different things appeal to different people...i loved how she seemed so---i dont know---well i guess the word you used (automaton) kinda fits...but i liked that...for the same reasons i loved Evert...i like the players most who show nothing, nothing given away...Chris was kinda cool like that and so was Lendl (another all time fave of mine) and Steffi was the same mold...i didnt have patience for those Navratilova-wear your heart/emotions on your sleeve types. but that was just me...i loved how Steffi just came along and swoop! changed everything. and so fucking funny how your game is patterend after Graf and you didnt even like her cause guess who i play like? and i mean EXACTLY like??? MONICA! UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh...2 hands on both sides (how pussy is that???) and sometimes when i am just about to get into position to hit something its like i can see myself standing just how monica would and it just kills me cause i've never care for her or her game and i guess its karma that i'd end up playing like the person i ragged on for so long! :eek:
 

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Mark, one other question...were you a die-hard Monica fan...i mean please tell me you werent....i guess you've told me this stuff before and i tend to erase it from my memory...i always feel like you were a Steffi fan especially since the way you talk about her now...i think i need a drink! you've ruined all my thoughts of you! (but they'll come back i'm sure! :kiss: )
 

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Darren! That is so very funny that you play like Monica! :)

I was always in Monica's camp since the moment I saw her play in the french 1990. I could not believe that she saved 5 straight set points in the breaker against Steffi. She had balls the size of grapefruits and I loved the kid! I know Steffi was beginning to go through her rough patch but she still had only lost 1 grandslam match in the last 2.5 years and I was dying for someone like Monica to come along. Also, I always felt that Steffi was by far the superior athlete so I felt rooting for Monica (even though she was winning everything in sight) was almost like rooting for the underdog, esp in 1991 when Steffi beat her both times they played. By the time the French Open 1992 rolled around, my mother was sick of Monica's dominance and she actually rooted for Steffi for the first time. In a way I wanted to, but I knew Steffi was such an amazing talent that she would get herself together and make the finals of the biggies and eventually get the best of Monica on a regular basis (I was convinced of this after Wimbledon 1992). Strange how it never was meant to be.

But yeah I always rooted against Graf. One of my all time fav memories is the French 1994. I could not believe my eyes...someone out powered Steffi and actually made her look human, not even Monica was ever able to do that. Oh I miss Mary Pierce at the top (I know a whole other story).
 

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steffi still may have won, but this "exloiting her lack of movement..." let's not forget that the grunting also GREATLY affects monica's running. she was trained to keep breathing while she is running and to deeply exhale when she strikes the ball. for her to play a match where she is concentrating on still exhaling when she strikes the ball but to "not make it to a certain decibel" is far too mentally demanding when you are trying to play in front of a crowd who hates you and steffi graf-- a fantastic grass court player.
 

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Angela Buxton was a great player in her own right - a former Wimbledon champion in doubles - but obviously lacks credibility as a 'journalist'.

About this Rule 21 , be rest assured Martina wasn't aware of any Rule 21 or whatever. When she complained, she got caught up in the heat of the moment and complained about the grunting being a distraction. She wasn't asking for points to be taken away from Monica or anything like that. To her credit, she realized she was wrong and apologized to Monica after the match.
 

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faboozadoo15 said:
steffi still may have won, but this "exloiting her lack of movement..." let's not forget that the grunting also GREATLY affects monica's running. she was trained to keep breathing while she is running and to deeply exhale when she strikes the ball. for her to play a match where she is concentrating on still exhaling when she strikes the ball but to "not make it to a certain decibel" is far too mentally demanding when you are trying to play in front of a crowd who hates you and steffi graf-- a fantastic grass court player.
you shouldn't forget that the grunting also GREATLY affects the rival too! :wavey:
 

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if some seles fan continually make the grunting as excuse,we can make it also.
after all ,those final matchs which steffi lost to seles were more competitive and steffi winning would have more possibility if she had not been disturbed by seles' grunting
 

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stefanieforever we know the real reason why she lost these matches;)

you can't have it both ways;)
 
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