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Hello Non-Tennis posters,

For topics related to racism, including but not limited to discrimination and police brutality, please post them here.

The purpose of this thread to make sure such topics get the discussion they deserve and aren't ignored, all topics regarding these issues will be moved into this thread. The previous threads about such problems will not be merged.

While this is a place for open discussion, the rules of conduct of this forum are still to be followed. Respect is expected, even more so with these themes.

Any further doubts should be forwarded to the Non-Tennis moderators.

The Non-Tennis Moderation Team
 

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Re: Race-relation Issues



Dove Drops an Ad Accused of Racism

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/08/business/dove-ad-racist.html

In a Facebook ad for Dove body wash, a black woman removes her brown shirt and — voilà! Underneath is a white woman in a light shirt.

But the transition from the black woman to the white women — compiled into a static collage by a social media user — evoked a long-running racist trope in soap advertising: a “dirty” black person cleansed into whiteness. (Among other examples was an ad by the N. K. Fairbank Company, which was in business from 1875 to 1921, that featured a white child asking a black child, “Why doesn’t your mamma wash you with Fairy soap?”)
 

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Re: Race-relation Issues

Beyond silly. Because there were 3 women. First there was a black woman and then a white woman and then a latino type woman.

So by this logic, if a white woman cleaned herself she becomes latino.

Ok. No thanks I'm not falling for this BS. I'll continue using Dove.
 

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Re: Race-relation Issues

Beyond silly. Because there were 3 women. First there was a black woman and then a white woman and then a latino type woman.

So by this logic, if a white woman cleaned herself she becomes latino.

Ok. No thanks I'm not falling for this BS. I'll continue using Dove.
Really? :lol: I haven't seen the ad. Yeah, social media driven hysteria often misses the mark. From what you've said the aim was to be inclusive and they just had a tradition that certain people honed in on and viewed in a way much different to that intended. You'd think they'd look at Dove's other ads for context but :shrug:
 

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Art & Futures
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Re: Race-relation Issues

Really? :lol: I haven't seen the ad. Yeah, social media driven hysteria often misses the mark. From what you've said the aim was to be inclusive and they just had a tradition that certain people honed in on and viewed in a way much different to that intended. You'd think they'd look at Dove's other ads for context but :shrug:
They actually did look at other ads, and many feel that dove has a history of insensitivity. As a result, #boycottdove is becoming a thing.

example



I personally don't think these ads are necessarily malicious, but it is possible... a lot of people in advertising are aware of subliminal messaging, so they often use things like putting certain aspects right next to each other to make people feel a certain way.
Furthermore, soap ads in general have a history of racism.

 

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Re: Race-relation Issues

They actually did look at other ads, and many feel that dove has a history of insensitivity. As a result, #boycottdove is becoming a thing
I guess for those who are hypersensitive, normal can seem insensitive. I see nothing strange in that ad photo.

Overall Dove does more inclusive and ethnicity, body type supportive ads than almost any company. As for becoming a thing, like I stated, this isn't the first time social media driven hysteria is off the mark. And it won't be the last.
 

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Art & Futures
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Re: Race-relation Issues

I guess for those who are hypersensitive, normal can seem insensitive. I see nothing strange in that ad photo.
I just added more to my post to explain it more.
 

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Re: Race-relation Issues

I just added more to my post to explain it more.
Ah. Okay. Thanks for giving context. Though I do see making such a bizarre association with an ad from yesteryear as an example of hypersensitivity.
 

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Re: Race-relation Issues

Ah. Okay. Thanks for giving context. Though I do see making such a bizarre association with an ad from yesteryear as an example of hypersensitivity.
That was just one quick ad I could find on google, there are a lot more. And the fact that it is connected with race superiority / relations today which in turn are connected to race issues of the past, still gives it some relevance.
 

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夏の匂い。キ&#
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wait what happened to the old thread?

There was an interesting piece written by the model herself published on the Guardian.

I just think the whole Dove thing got blown out of proportion.
 

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Re: Race-relation Issues

That was just one quick ad I could find on google, there are a lot more. And the fact that it is connected with race superiority / relations today which in turn are connected to race issues of the past, still gives it some relevance.
I disagree. It has relevance because people focus on it. But that leads to hypersensitivity and self-defeating assessments. I can find similar derogatory ads about Italians, Germans, Irish, Japanese, Chinese, etc yet those groupings don't let them inform their current assessments as much as African-Americans seem to. IMO there is enough anti-black stuff that is real and current without compounding it with outrage over things that were not intended to be anything of the sort.

Let's be clear - I couldn't care less about Dove and whether people use it or not. But to me it just seems silly and self-defeating for people to launch a campaign against a company that clearly (even if for finacial gain) focuses on inclusive ads because of misreading something based on "well in the past . ." :shrug: That's all. I'm out on this topic.
 

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The road to total bowdlerization of the language continues.

The Toronto School Board has just announced that all jobs with the word ‘chief’ in their definition must have a name change, so as not to offend indigenous people. (I bet they did not think to ask indigenous people what they thought of the new rule).
And these are the people in charge of education in the city!
It can only be a few more days before the word "chef" is banned in restaurants.

Also, the Ontario Law Society has instructed all lawyers that they must each write a "statement of principles" and file it with the Law Society.

1984 is finally here!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Race issues and homophobia issues are assigned their own separate threads, but not misogyny and sexism issues. How sexist! :eek:
I will talk to other members of the moderation team about your concern. Personally I don't think we need a thread for every issue in the society, but I understand your concern.
 

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Re: Race-relation Issues

I disagree. It has relevance because people focus on it. But that leads to hypersensitivity and self-defeating assessments. I can find similar derogatory ads about Italians, Germans, Irish, Japanese, Chinese, etc yet those groupings don't let them inform their current assessments as much as African-Americans seem to. IMO there is enough anti-black stuff that is real and current without compounding it with outrage over things that were not intended to be anything of the sort.

Let's be clear - I couldn't care less about Dove and whether people use it or not. But to me it just seems silly and self-defeating for people to launch a campaign against a company that clearly (even if for finacial gain) focuses on inclusive ads because of misreading something based on "well in the past . ." :shrug: That's all. I'm out on this topic.
And of course you, a White man, decides what should be real to Black people, right? :rolleyes: Intent, or lack thereof, doesn't matter when the outcome is the same.

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Re: Race-relation Issues

And of course you, a [human], decides what should be real to [has an opinion on how to view things involving] [other humans], right? Intent, or lack thereof, doesn't matter when the outcome is the same.
Corrected. And, with those corrections, yes right.

I'm sorry that you think everyone sees the world through "race as primary" glasses as you do and I'm also sorry that you see someone expressing how they see things as being tantamount to telling others how to see it. And yes I know you're far from alone in both those opinions. But your choice to hold them is your own thing to deal with.

That sorted, I of course accept that the outcome is important but I'd say that intent is just as, or even more, important.

Oh and you might want to read what the woman in the commercial has to say about it.
 

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'I just killed Kamil - I need to be arrested': Killer's chilling 999 call after he stabbed his neighbour to death and chopped off his penis
Jeffrey Barry, 56, has been found guilty of a 'savage' stab murder in Bristol. The gruesome attack ended with Barry chopping off Kamil Ahmad's penis. In a chilling 999 call after he said 'I just killed Kamil...classed as murder innit?' Murder took place hours after Barry was released from a psychiatric hospital. Barry denied murder but admitted manslaughter by diminished responsibility.



Police today released the recording of the call Barry made within minutes of the stabbing. He calmly phoned 999 and told the operator what he had done. He accused Mr Ahmad of committing a number of crimes, adding: 'So that's why I attacked him. I warned the staff. I warned them. I warned the crisis team. They ignored me. He's dead now.' He went on: 'I'm covered with blood. There's blood splattered everywhere in the room. Classed as murder, innit?' The call handler could he heard asking a colleague to send an ambulance before Barry said: 'But I'm going to say diminished responsibility.'

During the trial, the jury was told he had written notes stating his intention to kill people in the shared supported housing unit where the pair lived.
He told support workers at the accommodation they shared in Bristol that he wanted to be a notorious murderer and Mr Ahmad was top of his hit list. Weeks before the killing at the victim's flat, Barry told police in a phone call he thought Mr Ahmad was a rapist, a paedophile and a terrorist in Iraq. He earlier told a psychiatrist he could hear the devil's voice telling him: 'Kamil must die...he is a very bad man.' He also displayed 'bizarre' over-sexualised behaviour, including masturbating naked in communal areas. Despite that he was discharged the day before the brutal knifing after promising a mental health tribunal he would not drink.

CCTV footage on the night of the murder showed Barry leaving the flat in the early evening on July 6, 2016. He spent several hours drinking at Charlie's Bar in Wells Road and Long Bar in Old Market before returning to the flat just before midnight. Footage captured him leaving the flat at 1am, wearing just his pants, and making a telephone call in the hallway. He rang a mental health crisis helpline and told the operator he was criminally insane and was not responsible for his actions. He ended the call at 1.26am, and appeared on CCTV footage three minutes later, emerging from his flat shirtless but wearing trousers with a knife in his pocket. He then walked upstairs and knocked on Mr Ahmad's door. His victim opened the door and Barry went in before emerging 42 minutes later with blood visible all over his clothes. He then walked back down to the hall, dialled 999 and told the operator he had killed Mr Ahmad. Home Office pathologist Dr Amanda Jeffery examined Mr Ahmad's body and found injuries to his face, head and neck. There were 25 stab wounds to his face, including his eyes, and fatal stab wounds to his stomach, right arm and left wrist. Mr Ahmad's penis had been cut off after his death.

Mr Ahmad fled persecution and imprisonment in Iraq, and as a result of his experiences there was diagnosed with severe mental health difficulties.
He arrived in the UK in 2011 seeking protection. Mr Ahmad's family and friends said he had been let down by several agencies in the city, and Mr Ahmad had made repeated warnings about feeling threatened by Barry but was ignored. In the three years before the attack, Mr Ahmad had complained to police four times that Barry had assaulted him. Mr Ahmad's interpreter, Adil Jaifar, said he had worked with the victim for several years and that at weekly therapy meetings he attended with Mr Ahmad, he always talked about how threatened he felt by Barry. Ahmad's brother, Kamaran Ahmad Ali, said after the verdict: 'Kamil was a much-loved brother, uncle and cousin. If he had been protected by the authorities, he would be alive today. Why was he not protected? We must have an answer to that question.' The family's solicitor, Tony Murphy of Bhatt Murphy, described the murder as 'preventable'. 'The evidence heard at trial points to a systemic, multi-agency failure to protect a known victim of violent race hate crime from a known perpetrator,' he said. The family ask the authorities to be open about their failure to protect Kamil so that other lives can be protected.' After the verdict Detective Chief Inspector Richard Ocone said: 'Barry may have a history of serious mental illness but at the time he attacked Kamil he knew exactly what he was doing.'The public are now much safer with him off the streets for he is an exceptionally dangerous man.'

Alex Raikes from the campaign group Stand Against Racism and Inequality (Sari) said more help should have been available for Mr Ahmad.
'We're seeing cutbacks where we're seeing agencies losing more and more resources, more and more front-line resources, some of our most vulnerable people are even less safe,' she said. 'That means that we, as the voluntary and charitable sector, have got to step up and we've got to do more than we ever have done before to be the eyes and ears of people who are so vulnerable, and Kamil was one of those individuals.' A spokesman for Avon and Wiltshire Mental Health Partnership NHS Trust described the murder as 'tragic and brutal'. 'We remain committed to close co-operation with all agencies in an effort to prevent such an event happening in the future,' he said. John Hoskinson, chief executive of the Milestones Trust, said an internal review was being conducted, as well as other investigations. 'We do understand this is a very difficult time for those involved but are unable to comment further until the results of these investigations are known,' Mr Hoskinson added.

Judge Mrs Justice May will sentence Barry on November 10.


Read more: Killer's 999 call after he stabbed his neighbour to death | Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @mailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
 

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'I just killed Kamil - I need to be arrested': Killer's chilling 999 call after he stabbed his neighbour to death and chopped off his penis
What does this have to do with race relations? :confused:

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