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Overall, I think Peak Venus' game is better than Serena's. But the mental factor is too much; I'm not going to be biased just because I like her. Frankly, I'm scared as hell every time they play each other because I know Venus goes into that match being the underdog IMO. I don't think I'll understand her "feeling bad" for her sister, maybe because I'm the youngest in my family as well ;) haha
 

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Overall, I think Peak Venus' game is better than Serena's. But the mental factor is too much; I'm not going to be biased just because I like her. Frankly, I'm scared as hell every time they play each other because I know Venus goes into that match being the underdog IMO. I don't think I'll understand her "feeling bad" for her sister, maybe because I'm the youngest in my family as well ;) haha
But peak Venus is also mentally strong *shrugs*
 

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:lol: Not even close. Serena by a mile.

1. Her 1st serve is way more accurate. Venus doesn't get the same placement on the first serve and it also tends to break down more often.
2. Venus may hit her 1st serve more consistently big, but a fast serve isn't everything. In fact, for someone who can return like Serena can (especially given her ability to hit winners from awkward body positions) it actually gives LESS time for the server to react.
3. Serena has a better forehand. Not only does Venus' forehand desert her at inopportune moments, but Serena is able to hit better angles without compromising power. Serena's inside-out forehand is also more consistently accurate than Venus'.
4. I'd rate them equal on the backhand wing. While Venus' can hit some lovely angles with the backhand and an excellent down the line, but Serena can match her down the line and has an incredible inside-out backhand when her opponents least expect it.
5. Serena has more variety, though she can look ungainly when doing it - she hits lobs, drop shots, slices and so on more frequently, and a lot BETTER. Add that to, once again, her ability to hit when she's completely out of position and you have a winning combination.
6. I don't think Venus is better at net. Venus comes to the net more often perhaps, and has a huge wingspan, but she doesn't have the same touch at the net. It's usually Serena who can come up with a delicate drop volley when she needs it.
7. I think they're equal movement-wise. But the difference is that Serena, more than Venus, tries to control the point much more than Venus does, who often starts off from a defensive position in a rally and then turns that into offence when she sees the chance. But great first-strike offence always beats defence, so Serena takes that too.
 

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Discussion Starter #66
Although I agree with a lot of your points, movement wise, I definitely do not think they are even. Even declining Venus is still a good two steps quicker than Serena, and although the diference may not seem marginal because Serena counteracts this by playing first strike Tennis, she is simply has never been as fast as Venus following her knee surgery. Because Venus hits with more arm than Serena, I believe she can really thump balls that are just at the limits of her reach, as opposed to Serena who really needs to get her entire body through the ball. Would Serena have been able to get to those two backhands in Dubai? Maybe the first one, but definitely not the second. I would say Serena better recognizes the limitations of her movement and offsets this with a more aggressive style of play, but she is not faster than Venus.
 

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:lol: Not even close. Serena by a mile.

1. Her 1st serve is way more accurate. Venus doesn't get the same placement on the first serve and it also tends to break down more often.
2. Venus may hit her 1st serve more consistently big, but a fast serve isn't everything. In fact, for someone who can return like Serena can (especially given her ability to hit winners from awkward body positions) it actually gives LESS time for the server to react.
3. Serena has a better forehand. Not only does Venus' forehand desert her at inopportune moments, but Serena is able to hit better angles without compromising power. Serena's inside-out forehand is also more consistently accurate than Venus'.
4. I'd rate them equal on the backhand wing. While Venus' can hit some lovely angles with the backhand and an excellent down the line, but Serena can match her down the line and has an incredible inside-out backhand when her opponents least expect it.
5. Serena has more variety, though she can look ungainly when doing it - she hits lobs, drop shots, slices and so on more frequently, and a lot BETTER. Add that to, once again, her ability to hit when she's completely out of position and you have a winning combination.
6. I don't think Venus is better at net. Venus comes to the net more often perhaps, and has a huge wingspan, but she doesn't have the same touch at the net. It's usually Serena who can come up with a delicate drop volley when she needs it.
7. I think they're equal movement-wise. But the difference is that Serena, more than Venus, tries to control the point much more than Venus does, who often starts off from a defensive position in a rally and then turns that into offence when she sees the chance. But great first-strike offence always beats defence, so Serena takes that too.
Peak Venus doesn't spray her forehand. Her forehand is every bit as dangerous as her backhand. I disagree with about 80% of what you said :lol:
 

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:lol: Not even close. Serena by a mile.

1. Her 1st serve is way more accurate. Venus doesn't get the same placement on the first serve and it also tends to break down more often.
2. Venus may hit her 1st serve more consistently big, but a fast serve isn't everything. In fact, for someone who can return like Serena can (especially given her ability to hit winners from awkward body positions) it actually gives LESS time for the server to react.
3. Serena has a better forehand. Not only does Venus' forehand desert her at inopportune moments, but Serena is able to hit better angles without compromising power. Serena's inside-out forehand is also more consistently accurate than Venus'.
4. I'd rate them equal on the backhand wing. While Venus' can hit some lovely angles with the backhand and an excellent down the line, but Serena can match her down the line and has an incredible inside-out backhand when her opponents least expect it.
5. Serena has more variety, though she can look ungainly when doing it - she hits lobs, drop shots, slices and so on more frequently, and a lot BETTER. Add that to, once again, her ability to hit when she's completely out of position and you have a winning combination.
6. I don't think Venus is better at net. Venus comes to the net more often perhaps, and has a huge wingspan, but she doesn't have the same touch at the net. It's usually Serena who can come up with a delicate drop volley when she needs it.
7. I think they're equal movement-wise. But the difference is that Serena, more than Venus, tries to control the point much more than Venus does, who often starts off from a defensive position in a rally and then turns that into offence when she sees the chance. But great first-strike offence always beats defence, so Serena takes that too.

Me agree...it's not by much, but Serena just a TAD bit better.
 

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Although I agree with a lot of your points, movement wise, I definitely do not think they are even. Even declining Venus is still a good two steps quicker than Serena, and although the diference may not seem marginal because Serena counteracts this by playing first strike Tennis, she is simply has never been as fast as Venus following her knee surgery. Because Venus hits with more arm than Serena, I believe she can really thump balls that are just at the limits of her reach, as opposed to Serena who really needs to get her entire body through the ball. Would Serena have been able to get to those two backhands in Dubai? Maybe the first one, but definitely not the second. I would say Serena better recognizes the limitations of her movement and offsets this with a more aggressive style of play, but she is not faster than Venus.
PEAK, PEAk...so not the Serena after ' 03. Serena anticipates better than Venus as well, making her even better on defense.
 

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:lol: Not even close. Serena by a mile.

1. Her 1st serve is way more accurate. Venus doesn't get the same placement on the first serve and it also tends to break down more often.
2. Venus may hit her 1st serve more consistently big, but a fast serve isn't everything. In fact, for someone who can return like Serena can (especially given her ability to hit winners from awkward body positions) it actually gives LESS time for the server to react.
3. Serena has a better forehand. Not only does Venus' forehand desert her at inopportune moments, but Serena is able to hit better angles without compromising power. Serena's inside-out forehand is also more consistently accurate than Venus'.
4. I'd rate them equal on the backhand wing. While Venus' can hit some lovely angles with the backhand and an excellent down the line, but Serena can match her down the line and has an incredible inside-out backhand when her opponents least expect it.
5. Serena has more variety, though she can look ungainly when doing it - she hits lobs, drop shots, slices and so on more frequently, and a lot BETTER. Add that to, once again, her ability to hit when she's completely out of position and you have a winning combination.
6. I don't think Venus is better at net. Venus comes to the net more often perhaps, and has a huge wingspan, but she doesn't have the same touch at the net. It's usually Serena who can come up with a delicate drop volley when she needs it.
7. I think they're equal movement-wise. But the difference is that Serena, more than Venus, tries to control the point much more than Venus does, who often starts off from a defensive position in a rally and then turns that into offence when she sees the chance. But great first-strike offence always beats defence, so Serena takes that too.
Almost all of that is 100% wrong, maybe you're confusing Serena with Venus. I don't feel like going point by point, but peak Venus has a better forehand and a better backhand than Serena, she hits harder, more accurate, deeper, her volleys are MUCH better, and her movement is also much better.
 

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Venus was untouchable in her prime. Back when she could actually serve, had a forehand, could play at the net and not spray 50+ UE per match.
In her prime Venus's second serve and forehand were terrible (well, worse than now), went to the net less oftn than now and certainly hit more errors because she was more aggressive. :shrug:

:lol: Not even close. Serena by a mile.

2. Venus may hit her 1st serve more consistently big, but a fast serve isn't everything. In fact, for someone who can return like Serena can (especially given her ability to hit winners from awkward body positions) it actually gives LESS time for the server to react.
3. Serena has a better forehand. Not only does Venus' forehand desert her at inopportune moments, but Serena is able to hit better angles without compromising power. Serena's inside-out forehand is also more consistently accurate than Venus'.
4. I'd rate them equal on the backhand wing. While Venus' can hit some lovely angles with the backhand and an excellent down the line, but Serena can match her down the line and has an incredible inside-out backhand when her opponents least expect it.
6. I don't think Venus is better at net. Venus comes to the net more often perhaps, and has a huge wingspan, but she doesn't have the same touch at the net. It's usually Serena who can come up with a delicate drop volley when she needs it.
7. I think they're equal movement-wise. But the difference is that Serena, more than Venus, tries to control the point much more than Venus does, who often starts off from a defensive position in a rally and then turns that into offence when she sees the chance. But great first-strike offence always beats defence, so Serena takes that too.
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I don't agree with these.

- A fast serve is everything when you're serving it consistently at 120+ into the body. Even Serena can't return that ish.
- Serena's forehand breaks down as well.
- I think Serena has a better backhand than Venus today and Venus is more consistently aggressive on the FH side than Serena these days, but in their "peak" Venus's BH was most CERTAINLY superior to Serena's.
- I don't agree with the statement that Serena ha better touch at the net than Venus AT ALL. I don't even know where you get that idea from.
- As for your final point, you just have to watch highlights of V&S matches to see that Serena is often on the defense in their matches - and that often works for her because of Venus's erratic nature.
 

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Discussion Starter #75
I think their 2003 Australian Open final is a great example as to what would happen if Peak Venus and Peak Serena met.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGjlKQD24as

In this match, Venus's first serve, movement and backhand are superior to Serena's, especially that back hand down the line. However Serena has a similarly good first serve, a much more reliable second serve, a decent backhand, movement and a hefty forehand. And when it came down to it at 4-5 in the third set, Venus blinked first.

You see in many matches, Venus can dominate and drag Serena around the court, but when it comes down to the business end, she caves in. If she had the mental resilience, then I would choose Venus. However, I'm not sure if it's just me, but I sometimes think Serena is more inclined to kind of give up against Venus if she's playing well, as opposed to if it was another player, like the Dubai 09 Semi's and Wimbledon 2008. Towards the end she just really began to look exasperated and lost.
 

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You don't need to double-bagel somebody for it to count as a win. These matches would probably be 7-6 5-7 8-6 or something like that and in these matches Serena has proven to be better than Venus.

The Vee-fans are forgetting how good peak Serena really was. Peak Vee was good too..so it'd be close.
 

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Hmm I'm a bag fan of both. If we all look back at the 2008 US Open, they both were in great form. That has been the best tennis I've seen Venus play in quite sometime and it was a shame that they had to meet in the Quarters as I felt that Venus could have been the US Open champ that year. We can break down their games and the only thing that stands out is the 2nd serve. Venus can break down with that stroke but she recovers so well after that shot. Serena return of serve must be on like it was in the 2003 Aussie final to really destroy Venus, but Venus' return on Serena's second serve is just as strong. Venus eats up Stosur's second serve all the time. Just like Dubai 09', I would see Venus winning in 3 tight sets. They also really played out of their minds in Miami 05', Doha RR 09' (last 8 games), and Wimbledon 08'. Venus to me moves better and volleys better as well. When she comes to net, Serena can't touch her. I'm for Venus.
 

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Now that almost everything is said and done, by watching many of their fights, I think peak Venus would beat peak Serena in three sets. Venus was so strong and had so much power off her serve, she just went off more times than Serena, maybe because she wasn´t as healthy
 

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Now that almost everything is said and done, by watching many of their fights, I think peak Venus would beat peak Serena in three sets. Venus was so strong and had so much power off her serve, she just went off more times than Serena, maybe because she wasn´t as healthy
No, just no.

Venus is a great champion, but Serena is the best female player who played this sport.

No matter what Venus could do on court in that potential peak vs peak match, Serena can simply always find another gear and outplay Venus mentally.
 

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For peak Vee vs. peak Rena, I think you have to analyse this logically. Venus's biggest weakness has always been her second serve, and Serena is lethal on return (as is Venus). Both have a great first serve, but Serena's is more versatile, accurate and more unpredictable. Both had amazing movement, but Venus maybe has a more proactive element about her footwork (in 2020 both have lost their elite movement). Venus's forehand could break down and be inconsistent at times. Serena could be inconsistent at the net, while Venus loved playing at the net.

In terms of racquet skills and physicality, Serena has the edge.

Tactically Serena has the edge imho. Her game is more versatile, her groundstrokes have more margin and she can do more. Not that Venus isn't great, but not quite up to Serena's standards.

Serena has the edge here too.

Mentally speaking, both were the best at their peak. Both could come back from incredible deficits and both could find their way to win when all was against them. Both could win the big matches when it counted.

It's probably a tie mentally.

Consistency is an area where Serena has an edge imho, and nothing demonstrates that better than her superior results. Venus was more susceptible to playing badly and making tons of errors.

Serena has the edge here.

Peak Venus vs. Peak Serena probably goes Serena's way 6-7/10 times.
 
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