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Discussion Starter #1
Who would win?

For me, 02 - 03 Serena could beat Peak Venus.

Serena just seems to have so much heft behind her shots and her movement was amazing. Although Venus was probably arguably a little faster than Serena, She seemed, and still seems to arm the ball a little more, and that second serve is more attackable.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I prefer Venus, but isn't this a bit obvious?

They're very close, but Serena always seems to want it more, which is the difference between them often.
Well, considering their head to head is pretty close.. Venus in her younger days is much like Serena has always been. Venus used to want it pretty badly as well, especially in '05.
 

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VENUS, peak Serena only has second serve over venus, that is it.
 

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We already saw peak Venus vs peak Serena in 2002-early 2003. There is no way that wasnt peak Venus making 4 slam finals in a row, her only French and Australian Open finals ever. Serena still beat her in each and every one. So the answer is obvious atleast as far as head to head battle goes. If Serena didnt have such a big mental edge on her sister who knows.

Peak Venus vs peak Henin is a better debate since we never really saw it ever. Or even peak Serena vs peak Henin which we only maybe saw for a few months with Henin always winning on clay and Serena winning easily on grass during that blip, no meetings on hard courts. Or peak Hingis vs peak Williams since in a way we never really saw that either. We did see peak Venus vs peak Serena for atleast a whole year and in many big matches so what is there to debate exactly.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
We already saw peak Venus vs peak Serena in 2002-early 2003. There is no way that wasnt peak Venus making 4 slam finals in a row, her only French and Australian Open finals ever. Serena still beat her in each and every one. So the answer is obvious atleast as far as head to head battle goes.
Yes, but during these years the Field had slightly weakened, and before this, Venus was clobbering Serena in Grand Slam finals, So I think the real peak Venus was 2000 - 2001 and for Serena, 2002 - 2003.
 

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Yes, but during these years the Field had slightly weakened, and before this, Venus was clobbering Serena in Grand Slam finals, So I think the real peak Venus was 2000 - 2001 and for Serena, 2002 - 2003.
We will have to respectfully disagree.

How was the field weakened? Capriati was still very strong in 2002 and 2003. Of course when the draw pans out that Jen plays Venus, Henin or her personal nemisis Mauresmo (she played Serena surprisingly tough over the years) in big matches it is hard for her to win. Unlike many others whether Jen wins slams or not is more dependent on draws and the other top players than her own form. Davenport was already temporarily weakening in late 2000 and 2001 so no big difference there. OK Hingis fell off altogether in 2002 and retired so that is one drop off. Henin and Clijsters were on the rise at that point though, as was Mauresmo.

I just dont think anything other than a peak Venus could have made 4 slam finals in a row. The 2002 French was her only ever final there. The 2003 Australian was her only ever final there too. The only Serena that Venus clobbered in a slam final was the #10 seed Serena who hadnt been past a slam quarterfinal all year. Venus isnt such a dominating player she could reach 4 slam finals in a row at anything other than her "peak" IMHO. Without Serena 2002 is Venus's best year ever by far.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
We will have to respectfully disagree.

How was the field weakened? Capriati was still very strong in 2002 and 2003. Of course when the draw pans out that Jen plays Venus, Henin or her personal nemisis Mauresmo (she played Serena surprisingly tough over the years) in big matches it is hard for her to win. Unlike many others whether Jen wins slams or not is more dependent on draws and the other top players than her own form. Davenport was already temporarily weakening in late 2000 and 2001 so no big difference there. OK Hingis fell off altogether in 2002 and retired so that is one drop off. Henin and Clijsters were on the rise at that point though, as was Mauresmo.

I just dont think anything other than a peak Venus could have made 4 slam finals in a row. The 2002 French was her only ever final there. The 2003 Australian was her only ever final there too. The only Serena that Venus clobbered in a slam final was the #10 seed Serena who hadnt been past a slam quarterfinal all year. Venus isnt such a dominating player she could reach 4 slam finals in a row at anything other than her "peak" IMHO. Without Serena 2002 is Venus's best year ever by far.
I stated that field had weakened because some of the best players from the previous generation began to slow down, and Yes, because Kim and Justine were up and comers. Davenport missed the majority of events in 2002, failing to record a single tournament Victory, and was practically a non-entity in 2003. In short, majority of the top players that had ever managed to give Venus or Serena any difficulty in the past had lack-lustre years, which means that they were some of the only players left with the tools to win Grand Slams. They had the speed, power, serves, mental strength and slam experience.

In response to your second paragraph, when you put it in perspective, I agree. 2002 and 2003 were Venus's best years in relation to Grand Slam showing, but I still maintain she played better in the 2000 - 2001 period.

Edit: Also, do you believe that had Venus played some-one other than Serena in four Grand Slam finals, that she would also have lost all four?
 

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I think Venus's best ever tennis from a specific time period was Wimbledon 2000-end of 2000 followed very closely by Wimbledon 2001-U.S Open 2001. Her best ever tennis for an overall year though was 2002 or post Miami 2002-early 2003. So it all depends on your perspective of what defines peak I guess.

Irregardless whatever Venus it is I think Serena wins more often than not. She has a huge mental edge over Venus who is not her usual determined self in their matches, and she also has the edge of having absolutely no technical weaknesses really whereas Venus does with the 2nd serve and the consistency of the forehand. Both at their best Serena is also clearly better on rebound ace or clay to the point those surfaces arent much of a contest, Venus can only compete with Serena with both at their best on medium to fast courts.
 

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LMAO. Half the posts in this thread are from people on my ignore list.

That said, this discussion has NEVER BEEN HAD BEFORE. :crazy:
Wow what a useful post!
 

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Who would win?

For me, 02 - 03 Serena could beat Peak Venus.

Serena just seems to have so much heft behind her shots and her movement was amazing. Although Venus was probably arguably a little faster than Serena, She seemed, and still seems to arm the ball a little more, and that second serve is more attackable.
I agree. One of, actually probably THE, main difference between the two when they have played, is that Venus lets the "sister" thing get to her head more. Serena ALWAYS wants to win, no matter who she plays. Venus has given Serena some matches, eg the 2003 AO. Serena has never done the same for Serena.
 

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Well i'd pick Serena but only cause of her mentall strengh which Venus never had and will never had
 

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Venus.

We've never seen peak Venus versus peak Serena. It could never happen, because Serena is Venus' little sister.
 

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Peak Venus. Watch 2005 Wimbledon Semifinal. No one would touch her.

Richard has said it, too. Unfortunately, peak Venus does not come into orbit very often.

Imagine 05 W SF Venus vs. 07 OZ F Serena. :drool:
 

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The AO final in '03 gives us the answer. Venus was matching PeakRena off the ground and in terms of athleticsm, but mentally Serena was superior.

This is basically how i see a peak match-up of theirs playing out.
 
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