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Pre-Patrick

2002 FO W
2002 Wimbledon W
2002 USO W
2003 AO W
2003 Wimbledon W

2008 USO W
2009 AO W
2009 Wimbledon W
2010 AO W
2010 Wimbledon W

And scattered results inbetween (not to mention death of her sister)

Post-Patrick

2012 Wimbledon W
2012 USO W
2013 FO W
2013 USO W

2014 USO W
2015 AO W
2015 FO W
2015 Wimbledon W


And scattered results inbetween

So I really don't get how "she never was as regularly solid as with him before " infact it seems to be an almost identical pattern of chunks of great form followed by in-and-out form where she's only winning a slam here and there.
and 2016 wimbledon and 2017 australian. and 1999 us open
 

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I'm not sure about "underachiever", but there's no doubt that without him she wouldn't have won half of the slams she managed to in that period. There's a high probability she would have retired around 2013-14. Also let me remind you about 2010s courts conditions that are different to 2000s. It's PM who teached Serena how to play there, without him with her old gamestyle she was exposed by some lower ranked players. So yees, he is responsible for her success.
 

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No one had ever heard of him before
 

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Pre-Patrick

2002 FO W
2002 Wimbledon W
2002 USO W
2003 AO W
2003 Wimbledon W

2008 USO W
2009 AO W
2009 Wimbledon W
2010 AO W
2010 Wimbledon W

And scattered results inbetween (not to mention death of her sister)

Post-Patrick

2012 Wimbledon W
2012 USO W
2013 FO W
2013 USO W

2014 USO W
2015 AO W
2015 FO W
2015 Wimbledon W


And scattered results inbetween

So I really don't get how "she never was as regularly solid as with him before " infact it seems to be an almost identical pattern of chunks of great form followed by in-and-out form where she's only winning a slam here and there.
There are 5 years between 2003 and 2008 vs 2 years between 2010 and 2012 and 1 year between 2013 and 2014... I see no real slump in Patrick's period, maybe mini-slumps when she was still number 1.
And the fact that Serena was in her 30s in 2010s. In my opinion, there's no comparison. During PM era she overachieved.
 

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This is the kind os statement that even if true, you keep it to yourself if you're in his position.
Leave for the books, the press and the fans to speak about greatness. When you feel the constant need to make that a point of subject, you just sound full of yourself .
 

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Not sure what all the whining is about. Serena has been far more consistent working with him than before him. Firstly, I think he has had his best influence in keeping her motivated (and motivation is something Serena often struggled with for much of her career in her 20's), helped by the working chemistry that they both have and it's obvious he pushes her. And her tennis under him also saw subtle changes with more margin and spin on her shots and less ball bashing.

Just because someone is a narcissistic asshole who can't shut up doesn't mean he's some kind of fraud who did absolutely nothing for Serena.
 

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he is only partially correct. with him she won 10 slams in the span of 4 1/2 years. that is more than 2 slams per year. so fact does speak for itself. the other truth is once she turns 30 she realizes that time is running out. so she is extra motivated to win as many slams as she can. so that part is on her and not him. she would have won that many more slams after 30 with other coaches as well.
 

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After just reading the title, I knew Saraya would be the OP. :lol:
 

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Pre-Patrick

2002 FO W
2002 Wimbledon W
2002 USO W
2003 AO W
2003 Wimbledon W

2008 USO W
2009 AO W
2009 Wimbledon W
2010 AO W
2010 Wimbledon W

And scattered results inbetween (not to mention death of her sister)

Post-Patrick

2012 Wimbledon W
2012 USO W
2013 FO W
2013 USO W

2014 USO W
2015 AO W
2015 FO W
2015 Wimbledon W


And scattered results inbetween

So I really don't get how "she never was as regularly solid as with him before " infact it seems to be an almost identical pattern of chunks of great form followed by in-and-out form where she's only winning a slam here and there.
Numbers kind of speak for themselves if you stop cherry picking them. I'm not saying the guy is solely responsible for Serena becoming significantly more consistent, after all there is such a thing as a player maturing, and she's done plenty of that over the years, but ignoring his contributions just like that is silly.

Look I hate the guy too, don't get me wrong, but in the span of 4 seasons, 2012-2015, arguably her best run of her career, she won 8 Grand Slams and 30 overall titles. That's a legendary run, and again she did all of that in just 4 years. Not to mention she had her best win percentages of her career during that period. In two of those years she won 95% of the matches she played. You have any idea what that means? It means she would only lose 1 out of 20 matches.

Before 2012 she only made it past 90% twice, with 92% and 93% in 2002 and 2003. Some of you old enough to remember will know she had a tough 2003, losing almost half the season because of injuries, so that 93% comes form a significantly smaller number of matches. Even at her worst, before the baby, when adding up all those years, 2012-2017 she still averages over 90%, which is just the stuff of legends.

What I think he did is help focus her. There was nothing in particular that he added to her game, and while like most of you I really don't like the guy, I can't ignore his contributions because they are as clear as day when looking at Serena's career before and after him.

Was he as important as the coaches that came before? Hell no, of course not, but even that 1% he contributed to her game, that was enough to push her from extraordinary to absolutely legendary.
 

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It was much easier for Serena to win everything after 2012 when all of her main rivals retired and no one good debuted.
Bullshit, lol! Please name any of the so-called "rivals" who retired before 2012 that Serena wasn't beating to a slam or on regular tournaments prior to 2012? Name one if you can? Are you sure you are alright? Thinking clearly, I doubt you would have posted the nonsensical crass above.
 

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I think that poster means Venus had an illness and Henin retired. At that time slams were 8, 7, 7. Now 23, 7,7.
But thats normal. Like now Azarenka and Wozniacki dont win titles like they did in 2010, 2011. Its normal that some things happen to slow down a player after a decade of grueling hard work.
I wouldnt give the credit to patrick, just like I wouldnt blame him if Serena doesnt win a title in this comeback. Serena deserve all the credit. That a player who was a slam winner in 1999 is still a slam contender in 2019 and won 23 speaks for itself. GREATNESS.
 

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True... but he overdone and now she is an overachiever.

These French guys can´t do anything right... :facepalm:
 

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I was looking at the list of Year End #1's. Serena was in 2002. None of the others who were YE #1 from 2003-15, When Serena still was YE #1, none of the others win anything now, or make any slam runs
Serena is unique in the modern WTA game for handling 2 decades of the physicality
Not only the greatest player but the toughest, physically & mentally.
 
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That's the truth. She never was as regularly solid as with him before <img src="https://www.tennisforum.com/images/smilies/shrug.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Shrug" class="inlineimg" />
Lol. Fact number 1, serena and richard started putting more spins on her shot before she even worked with patrick. Fact 2, her volleys got worse under patrick.
 

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he is only partially correct. with him she won 10 slams in the span of 4 1/2 years. that is more than 2 slams per year. so fact does speak for itself. the other truth is once she turns 30 she realizes that time is running out. so she is extra motivated to win as many slams as she can. so that part is on her and not him. she would have won that many more slams after 30 with other coaches as well.
Well heres the thing. When serena started working with him, she was still training with her dad in the us prior to wimbledon. He is crazy to think that he made serena great.
 

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1,977 Posts
Pre-Patrick

2002 FO W
2002 Wimbledon W
2002 USO W
2003 AO W
2003 Wimbledon W

2008 USO W
2009 AO W
2009 Wimbledon W
2010 AO W
2010 Wimbledon W

And scattered results inbetween (not to mention death of her sister)

Post-Patrick

2012 Wimbledon W
2012 USO W
2013 FO W
2013 USO W

2014 USO W
2015 AO W
2015 FO W
2015 Wimbledon W


And scattered results inbetween

So I really don't get how "she never was as regularly solid as with him before " infact it seems to be an almost identical pattern of chunks of great form followed by in-and-out form where she's only winning a slam here and there.
There are 5 years between 2003 and 2008 vs 2 years between 2010 and 2012 and 1 year between 2013 and 2014... I see no real slump in Patrick's period, maybe mini-slumps when she was still number 1.
And the fact that Serena was in her 30s in 2010s. In my opinion, there's no comparison. During PM era she overachieved.
No slumps, she failed to reach the qf of a slam for 3 consecutive slams under him and there was no injury then. Funny how he is credited for the 2012 Wimbledon and US Open when they just started. Remember for years serena refused to acknowledge him as a coach even in interview she calls him as a consultant not a coach.
 

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He definitely improved Serena's clay court game and results by an absolute mile. That part of his era was head and shoulders better than the 2000s Serena.
Her clay game is the same as before. The only thing now is there is no real clay courter than can beat her.
 

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Before he makes these claims he should provide some evidence for it - other than "I happened to be there at the time plus I have a massive, massive ego". What actual technical, mental, physical improvements did Serena make that were attributable to him? We shouldn't have to join the dots for him.
 
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