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Discussion Starter #1
Conchita Martinez's career has always been, IMO, much underrated. Although her game isn't spectacular to watch, she plays extremely _clever_ tennis. The varieties of spin, her tactics, and the effectiveness of her one-handed backhand make her really interesting to watch. She had the ability to do much better, in particular she really should have won Roland Garros as well as Wimby, but always seemed not quite motivated enough.

Anna Kournikova is also much underrated as a player. Despite not having won a tournament, she has had impressive wins over players like Venus, Serena, Martina, Lindsay, and will doubtless continue to do so. She can beat anyone when she's on, she's just inconsistent. And that's partly because she's so young. Although she's around the same age as Martina/Venus/Serena/etc she's had much less match experience because of her injuries.

Anyone else?
 

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henrieta nagyova and Barbara Schett also the now retired Silvia farina Elia
 

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Anna Kournikova is also much underrated as a player. Despite not having won a tournament, she has had impressive wins over players like Venus, Serena, Martina, Lindsay, and will doubtless continue to do so. She can beat anyone when she's on, she's just inconsistent. And that's partly because she's so young. Although she's around the same age as Martina/Venus/Serena/etc she's had much less match experience because of her injuries.

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<br />Correction SK---- Anna may be underrated, but she's never had a win over Williams * 2... She is 0-5 against Venus and 0-1 against lil Sis <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[ November 17, 2001: Message edited by: Infiniti2001 ]</p>
 

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Discussion Starter #4
You're quite right - dunno why I thought that.

Players Anna _has_ beaten (rather than me making it up!) :

Jennifer Capriati<br />Kim Clijsters<br />Jelena Dokic<br />Conchita Martinez<br />Nat Tauziat<br />Sandrine Testud<br />Amanda Coezter<br />Lindsay Davenport<br />Anke Huber<br />Monica Seles<br />Aranxta Sanchez-Vicario<br />Martina Hingis<br />STEFFI GRAF (on grass (eastborne) no less!)<br />Babsi Schett<br />Chanda Rubin<br />Amelie Mauresmo

I think that's pretty impressive!
 

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<font color=black>Kournikova has never defeated Venus Williams. </font>

<u>Venus WILLIAMS (USA) leads 5 : 0</u> <br /> <br />1998 Key Biscayne Hard (O) FR Venus WILLIAMS 6-2 4-6 1-6 <br />1999 Rome Clay (O) 16 Venus WILLIAMS 2-6 2-6 <br />1999 Wimbledon Grass (O) 16 Venus WILLIAMS 6-3 3-6 2-6 <br />1999 Stanford Hard (O) QF Venus WILLIAMS 1-6 3-6 <br />2000 Stanford Hard (O) SF Venus WILLIAMS 4-6 5-7

<br /><font color=black>... Has never defeated Serena Williams.</font>

<u>Serena WILLIAMS (USA) leads 1 : 0</u>

2000 Canadian Open Hard (O) 16 Serena WILLIAMS 3-6 2-6 <br />

<font color=green>She beat Hingis ONE time.</font>

<u>Martina HINGIS (SUI) leads 11 : 1 </u>

<br />1997 French Open Clay (O) 32 Martina HINGIS 1-6 3-6 <br />1997 Wimbledon Grass (O) SF Martina HINGIS 3-6 2-6 <br />1998 Australian Open Hard (O) 32 Martina HINGIS 4-6 6-4 4-6 <br />1998 Rome Clay (O) QF Martina HINGIS 2-6 4-6 <br />1998 Berlin Clay (O) QF Anna KOURNIKOVA 6-3 7-6 <br />1998 Filderstadt Hard (I) 16 Martina HINGIS 6-1 2-6 2-6 <br />1999 Hilton Head Clay (O) FR Martina HINGIS 4-6 3-6 <br />2000 Tokyo Carpet (I) QF Martina HINGIS 0-6 2-6 <br />2000 Hamburg Clay (O) QF Martina HINGIS 6-3 2-6 4-6 <br />2000 Moscow Carpet (I) FR Martina HINGIS 3-6 1-6 <br />2000 Philadelphia Carpet (I) QF Martina HINGIS 4-6 0-6 <br />2000 W.T.A. Tour Championships Carpet (I) SF Martina HINGIS 6-7(2) 2-6 <br /> <br /><font color=pink> Kournikova at one time had Davenport's number... not anymore though.</font>

<u>1Lindsay DAVENPORT (USA) leads 7 : 3 </u>

1998 <br />Sydney Hard (O) 16 Lindsay DAVENPORT 2-6 7-6 3-6 <br />1998 Key Biscayne Hard (O) QF Anna KOURNIKOVA 6-4 2-6 6-2 <br />1998 Amelia Island Clay (O) QF Lindsay DAVENPORT 5-7 3-6 <br />1999 Amelia Island Clay (O) 16 Anna KOURNIKOVA 6-4 6-1 <br />2000 Sydney Hard (O) SF Lindsay DAVENPORT 3-6 2-6 <br />2000 Australian Open Hard (O) 16 Lindsay DAVENPORT 4-6 3-6 <br />2000 Scottsdale Hard (O) SF Lindsay DAVENPORT 2-6 2-6 <br />2000 San Diego Hard (O) 16 Anna KOURNIKOVA 2-6 6-4 7-5 <br />2001 Australian Open Hard (O) QF Lindsay DAVENPORT 4-6 2-6 <br />2001 Tokyo Carpet (I) SF Lindsay DAVENPORT 1-6 7-6(5) 0-6

<font color=red>How is Kournikova doing against the Belgium alliance??</font>

<u>Kim CLIJSTERS (BEL) leads 4 : 1 </u>

2000 Fed Cup (WG-RR) Carpet (I) R2 Kim CLIJSTERS 7-5 2-6 4-6 <br />2000 Luxembourg Carpet (I) QF Anna KOURNIKOVA 6-7(1) 6-3 6-1 <br />2000 Stuttgart Hard (I) 32 Kim CLIJSTERS 4-6 3-6 <br />2000 Leipzig Carpet (I) SF Kim CLIJSTERS 2-6 3-6 <br />2001 Luxembourg Hard (I) QF Kim CLIJSTERS 5-7 6-7(2)

<br /><u>Justine HENIN (BEL) leads 2 : 0 </u>

1999 Philadelphia Carpet (I) 32 Justine HENIN 6-7 4-6 <br />2000 U.S. Open Hard (O) 32 Justine HENIN 4-6 6-7
 

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Discussion Starter #6
All I'm trying to say is that those who argue that Anna is intrinsically a mediocre player who cannot defeat the top players are WRONG. She is quite capable of defeating the top players, but hasn't yet worked out how to do it consistently. As she showed in 1998 particularly, she is very very talented.
 

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sk, I agree that Anna is a very talented player and certainly should have accomplished much than she has done.

I think the injury she suffered in Eastbourne in 1998 had a lot to do with that, Anna was playing very well, she beat Steffi on grass, but after that injury, she lost confidence and then, every time she is sort of building confidence again, she gets injured.

I think her main problems right now are 4: she is getting a lot of pressure to win her first title, she is injury prone, she is low in confidence, and she really needs a coach, her mother and father have no clue, Anna has the talente but not game plan, and a horrible shot selection, she someone to teach her not how to do, but what to do.

But I don't think she is underrated, many players have a wonderful ability but never accomplished anything, like Lisa Raymond, or Miriam Oremans, Anna is not underrated because she isn't really achieving much, her results are well below her ability, but I think that people realize she is talented, but the results are not coming.
 

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Although I do not think Anna's results are underrated, I do think her talent is. There are many people who see Anna simply as a joke, which is very sad considering the girl has the natural talent to beat anyone out there. The thing that has always made me wonder is how even people who have an extreme amount of knowledge about tennis and the players in the game still cannot see, or perhaps admit, that Anna has as much talent as anyone else in the game. This does not mean, however, that she is anywhere near as mentally solid as she has to be in the future if she hopes to compete for the big titles. Still, I cannot see how anyone can say that she doesn't have the potential to be a champion. There are those who do believe this however, which is why I think her talent is underrated.
 

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Arantxa and Conchita have always been. They've accomplished so much in their career that hardly ever gets noticed just because they weren't "media players"! <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

[ November 17, 2001: Message edited by: Julian ]</p>
 

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hello, there are many people who are undrerated on the tour, but none like Coetzer,Martinez,Vicario.

Coetzer is one of the shortest tennis players in history ever, infact she is the shortest player ever to reach the top 3.<br />How many coetzer articles do you see a year, something like 3.<br />She has been in the top 20 for more then 10 years now(1990 or 1991 to -------, she still is and she has nearly won 20 titles(doubles and singles combined, she has ended the year at #4 and she is won of the few few few players who had steffi's # and beat her 4 times(6 if you count and exbitions)<br />She has beaten all the top #1 players in her era except for Navratilova, she is one of only 2 players 2 beat vicario, graff, davenport,hingis while they were at the top spot.

She has beaten all most all of the #1's in her career except for navratilova, who was on the tour when coetzer was somewhat weak,

She has beaten capriati,seles,davenport,austin,graf,hingis, vicario all #1 players she even beat venus williams just last year, she has made tier one titles, she has won tier one titles, and what credit does she get, nothing, all people know her for is that she is bueatiful, has a sexy body, and that about it................

<br />and what about Martinez and Vicario, ahhhh don't get me started, sometimes i think the media are just fuc*ing bastards.
 

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Venus and Serena are underrated on clay.<br />But I have a feeling that will change after next year.<br /> <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[ November 17, 2001: Message edited by: moon ]</p>
 

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Bulgar - you seem to know Amanda back to front! - some of the things you stated shocked me - i never knew Mandy could cause Steffi so much greif! <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

I beleive my Ai Sugiyama is underestimated!<br />She's beaten plenty of top players - including Graf and Hingis.... people always rule her out .... she really does belong in the top 20! <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
 

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Anna Kournikova has not , and probably will not beat Jelena. Unless you're talking about that exhibition in 1998 when Jelena was barely 15 and sitll playing JUNIORS.....anna at that time was a seasoned professional , and well that doesn't count!

Anyway some players i think are underrated.....<br />martinez , dokic , mauresmo , kournikova , seles , and more.
 

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Moon I agree with you whole hearted. <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="graemlins/wavey.gif" border="0" alt="[Wavey]" />
 

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vixen, yeah amanda gave graf her worst loss ever,<br />and it was in berlin, infront of steffi graf's family and infront steffi's home crowd.

Amanda coetzer beat Steffi Graf 6-0/6-1<br />in 40 or 50 something min.

Coetzer beat graf 6-0,6-1(after that there career head to head was 4-9(but coetzer beat graf in the french 97 afterwords, and then she beat her in the south african exbition 99, and here is an article

German Open, Berlin (May 12-18)

Amanda Demolishes Graf in Berlin!

Top seed and defending champion Steffi Graf was returning from a three-month injury layoff and playing in front of the home crowd in a tournament she has dominated. She just got in the way of the wrong opponent. Coetzer handed Graf her worst loss ever, 6-0, 6-1 in 49 min., today in the quarterfinals of the $926,250 German Open in Berlin, and appears to be cruising towards the $150,000 first prize. Graf, the defending champion, made only 10 unforced errors and had 2 double faults but that wasn't enough to a coetzer with only 1 unforced errors and with 39 winners(5 aces), the first set which lasted only 20 minutes was dominated by coetzer's aggressive play. Steffi did not win a game until she trailed 4-0 in the second set. "I was incredibly nervous out there,'' Graf said. "My confidence slipped from game to game, from shot to shot.''

Coetzer has become Steffi's nemesis, defeating her in the fourth round of the Australian Open 6-2/7-5. Graf's previous worst defeat came in the French Open semifinals in 1991, when she fell to Arantxa Sanchez Vicario of Spain. For Coetzer, it was her third dominating effort in as many matches in Berlin -- she has dropped only two games in the tournament. In the semifinals, Coetzer will play France's Mary Pierce, the 12th seed, who disposed of number six Iva Majoli of Croatia, 6-1, 6-4.

Coetzer improved to 4<br />4-9 lifetime against Graf and is now 2-1 against her on clay. Graf had also beaten her four times in as many meetings in tournament quarterfinals. It was an abrupt ending for the 27-year-old Graf, who was playing her first tournament after a three-month layoff. A nine-time champion at this event, Graf had been sidelined since early February with inflammation of the patella tendon in her left knee. She had reached the finals of the Pan Pacific Open in Tokyo but was forced to default her highly-anticipated showdown with Switzerland's Martina Hingis after aggravating the injury in the semifinals.

<br />*SO THeir official head to head isn't (11-4) for graf but (11-6)

Coetzer beat steffi 6 times:

94<br />New Jersey<br />Sf- 7-5/4-6/6-3

95 <br />canadian:<br />QF-Coetzer beat Graf 3-6/7-5/7-6

97<br />AUSTRALIAN<br />4th-6-2/7-5<br />BERLIN<br />QF-6-0/6-1<br />ROLAND GARROS<br />6-0/6-4

99 (last meeting)<br />*Ex. Johanesburg<br />3d match:<br />6-0/6-7(8-10)/6-1

thats alright steffi knocked her out 11 times <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> (most of the times that steffi won the match went to 3 sets.

At the 1995 Toronto, she enjoyed the best tournament of her career as she defeated three Top 5 players: co-No. 1 Steffi Graf, No. 4 Jana Novotna and No. 5 Mary Pierce. Coetzer handed Graf her first loss of the year and ended her 32-match winning streak.

she also gave seles one of her worst losses 6-4/6-2
 

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Some impressinve stats on Amanda there i knew that she had had those REALLY good results but Pan Pacific 1999?Where she beat Davenpost and Seles to get to the final was also great!
 

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Monica_Rules ,<br />that was pretty amazing i mean she had never beaten seles before, it was kind of wierd that she finally did in 7 or 8 tries.

and to beat seles and davenport you have to be a heck of a player(after all coetzer has said that seles was her toughest opponent ever, so i'm glad she has a memorable win against her, she deserves it)

Coetzer's also a very intellegent player and a friendly classy person:

over the years she has made friends with an elite group like

Sabatini(who she also beat),seles,vicario,pierce,kournikova,graff,davenport,mcniel,huber,pierce,schett, etc.

and many , many more........
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Yes, Amanda Coezter is also definitely underrated.

During the period of Steffi's domination she was pretty much the only player who could give her trouble. And she's still a very dangerous player...
 

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Bulgar<br />Yep Amanda did give Steffi a real tough time! And yeah Amanda did beat Steffi twice in exhibition matches(New Jersey was an exhibition tournament in 1994), but you didn't mention the exhibitions where Steffi beat Amanda. Like New Jersay F 1998, 3 times in the Hopman Cup plus other exho matches like in 1992(twice),93(once) and 96(once). Steffi also beat Amanda 2-1 in a 3 match series in South Africe during her farewell Tour. Amanda beat her in Stellenbosch, not Johannesburg. And the score was 3-6,6-3,6-2 NOT 6-0,6-7,6-1!

The Official head to head is 11-4 for Steffi

1992 French Open Clay Steffi GRAF 6-2 6-1 <br />1993 Philadelphia Carpet Steffi GRAF 6-4 6-1 <br />1993 VS Champs Carpet Steffi GRAF 6-1 6-2 <br />1994 Indian Wells Hard Steffi GRAF 6-0 6-4 <br />1994 US Open Hard Steffi GRAF 6-0 6-2 <br />1995 Wimbledon Grass Steffi GRAF 6-3 7-5 <br />1995 Canadian Open Hard COETZER 6-3 2-6 6-7 <br />1995 US Open Hard Steffi GRAF 6-7 6-1 6-4 <br />1995 W.T.A.Champs Carpet Steffi GRAF 6-2 6-2 <br />1996 Indian Wells Hard Steffi GRAF 6-4 6-1 <br />1997 Australian Open Hard COETZER 2-6 5-7 <br />1997 Berlin Clay COETZER 0-6 1-6 <br />1997 Strasbourg Clay Steffi GRAF 4-6 7-5 7-6 <br />1997 French Open Clay COETZER 1-6 4-6 <br />1998 New Haven Hard Steffi GRAF 6-3 6-0

Nothing to take away from Amanda, but all her victories over Steffi came when Steffi was struggling with one thing or the other. <br />1995 Canadian open (Steffi's first match after her father's arrest)<br />1997 Australian Open (heat stroke and a foot injury)<br />1997 Berlin (first event after a knee surgery)<br />1997 French Open ( knee injury. under went another surgery after the match and didn't play for the next 8 months..)

And as you can see most of Steffi's wins were in straight sets not 3 sets... <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
 
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