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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
This thread has been re-opened on a trial basis to allow posters to share any feedback, concerns or to ask any questions they have of the mod/admin team. The team will endeavour to answer any questions honestly or review any feedback and update the thread. However, there may be some things we can’t discuss or share in a public part of the forum.

Points to note:

1. No personal attacks against anyone on the forum, mods included. If you have an issue with a particular member of the moderator team, then please PM an admin.
2. No trolling the thread. Only constructive conversation is welcome
3. This thread is not for asking why you received an infraction or a ban. You should contact the relevant mod/admin if you need any clarification around that.


If the above points cannot be followed, then the thread will be closed again. We may add more 'points to note' the longer the thread stays active.
 

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Why was the thread about Steve Simon's comment abut possibly reviewing the WC rule closed? Yes, some people had gone off topic and used it as an excuse to Maria bash but surely good moderation here would have been to remove those comments not just close down the whole thread. Even in the relatively short time I have been a member of this forum it has become a shadow of its former self in terms of active users and number of threads. I acknowledge that the mods on here generally do a good job but stifling legitimate debate will only hasten the forum's descent into the grave. And really it should be for the users to decide what they want to talk about not the mods.
 

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Re: Excessive moderation II

Honestly, I feel the same like you Mauriac. I'm just a bit allergic to that kind of censoring and tbh I also feel like it's hurting a forum in the long term. I can understand that some people are annoyed by the ongoing discussions on that topic. But I still think that people should decide on their own what they want to post/read.

Of course it should be without insults etc and I know this is difficult to handle. but when people want to speak about the same thing again and again and again I think the mods should not have the right to shut them down. I certainly think it's way easier for those who don't care to just ignore the thread than for those who would like to speak about it and not have the opportunity anymore. It's just THE topic right now in tennis media. You are saying people are discussing the same things over and over again, but it's also the case because there are some news on this basically every day. Especially now with more decisions coming up regarding WCs, you are not allowing anymore threads on this until her first comeback match? This is not right IMO.

It's one of the few topics that still gets lots of attention in these sad days for the forum where some PM QFs only get like 20 posts. If this topic is also gone, there's not much left and then you have a very, very quiet GM. Don't know who benefits from this?
 

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Re: Excessive moderation II

The differences in moderation between MTF and TF are huge
There's so much more to talk about in general messages on MTF and I think it's better.
 

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Re: Excessive moderation II

I agree with @Mauriac. I have the feeling that moderation of Sharapova-related threads in GM has exceeded normal scope at some time a little after the CAS decision, and since then there is a lack of clear policy on this issue along with heavy-handed blocking of threads that might be perceived as negative to Maria.

Yes, those threads often have juvenile characterizations by both sides, and yes, they are sometimes repetitive with the same points being recycled and facts/opinions about Maria's adventures before CAS and the tribunal rehashed. Sometimes this is because new posters ask about this information, and sometimes it is because proponents of either side feel that their view needs repeating. But overall these threads have contained lots of useful information about a topic that like it or not is at the forefront of tennis news at the moment and will still be there for the foreseeable future. Pretending that developments regarding Maria's comeback and the positive and negative reactions in the tennis world are not actually happening and/or are not of interest to tennis fans (as @miffedmax put it, "This thread has run it's course and then some" when closing the main thread about Maria's comeback) is neither convincing (with articles being published in the press daily and with these threads having a large number of views and posters) nor helpful.

I understand that tennisforum might be concerned about legal issues (either real requests from Maria's team or perceived risk of such). If this is the case, it would be of service to the forum users to outright say that an executive decision has been made to submit to self-imposed censorship and to not discuss anything about Maria. It would be sad if one can talk more freely on the BBC or Daily Mail sites about tennis things than in tennisforum, but at least this would be understandable. If this is not the case, then clear rules should be posted about what is OK and what is not OK to be posted, with examples, and these rules should be enforced in cleaning the threads with infarctions issued, not used to close them.
 

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Re: Excessive moderation II

No lies detected. :ras:
 

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Re: Excessive moderation II

I totally understand moderating people's comments on players' political and religious views, but right now it's a mess.

If you look at active topics on MTF, there's so much to talk about, and nobody has a problem with it
 

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Re: Excessive moderation II

It isn't that your views and beliefs are being moderated, but that when the same points are being repeated over and over again—without any advancement of the discussion at hand—then the thread will rightfully be shut down. This problem is also compounded when many posters will simply regurgigate the same talking points, and lean towards displaying petty remarks vilifying a particular player.

Sure, many of us this do this sometimes on GM :)lol:) but this isn't something that takes place in three or four or five results thread and is left behind. No, it's something that has been going on for over a YEAR—and so the mods have every right to...

 

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Re: Excessive moderation II

I understand that tennisforum might be concerned about legal issues (either real requests from Maria's team or perceived risk of such). If this is the case, it would be of service to the forum users to outright say that an executive decision has been made to submit to self-imposed censorship and to not discuss anything about Maria.
I suspect Verticalscope might have been given a warning by Martha's legal team.

It may seem odd that Martha's lawyers found the time to deal with such trifles as TF, but then again for them (and the rest of Martha's entourage) this has always been about trying to rebuild Martha's shattered public image, an effort that may include preventing random nobodies talking shit about Martha in public forums.

It's the only logical explanation I can find for the behaviour of the moderators, and it became an obvious possibility to me long before the thread deletion/locking that took place today.

Verticalscope's policy has always been to punk out of confrontations with people or organisations waving "cease and desist" letters at them. It happened with the entry lists, it happened with the forum's domain name, it happened with virtual betting.
 

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Re: Excessive moderation II

It isn't that your views and beliefs are being moderated, but that when the same points are being repeated over and over again—without any advancement of the discussion at hand—then the thread will rightfully be shut down. This problem is also compounded when many posters will simply regurgigate the same talking points, and lean towards displaying petty remarks vilifying a particular player.
If there was no advancement of the discussion, people would get bored and the thread would die a natural death. Or there would be only a few die-hard Sharapova critics, that no one would pay any attention to. What's the problem even if they had a thread for their enjoyment?

Petty remarks against Maria should be edited and infarctions issued. So should be petty remarks against fellow posters, such as calling all Maria critics haters, blind, and prejudiced, and against other players, such as calling them scared and jealous of Maria.

Today, if all twenty Stuttgart MD participants decided not to play there in protest, this could not be posted in a new tennisforum thread according to the latest pronouncement. You don't think this is a problem?
 

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Re: Excessive moderation II

As admin of an even bigger forum I can kind of understand where the mods are coming from, but for the health of the community I think it would've been better to just let those same arguments play out over and over. In the end it's the most interesting story the WTA currently has to offer. People want to talk about it and it's what new people would come here to talk about. I'm all for quality over quantity but these measures have taken out a lot of quality posters as well. Unfortunately it's probably too late now to undo the damage, even if they did reconsider their stance.
 

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If you post about apples on tennis forum, of course it'll be locked. Talk about tennis and it won't.
You can, in fact, talk about apples, as long as it's in the non-tennis section.
I agree with @Mauriac. I have the feeling that moderation of Sharapova-related threads in GM has exceeded normal scope at some time a little after the CAS decision, and since then there is a lack of clear policy on this issue along with heavy-handed blocking of threads that might be perceived as negative to Maria.

Yes, those threads often have juvenile characterizations by both sides, and yes, they are sometimes repetitive with the same points being recycled and facts/opinions about Maria's adventures before CAS and the tribunal rehashed. Sometimes this is because new posters ask about this information, and sometimes it is because proponents of either side feel that their view needs repeating. But overall these threads have contained lots of useful information about a topic that like it or not is at the forefront of tennis news at the moment and will still be there for the foreseeable future. Pretending that developments regarding Maria's comeback and the positive and negative reactions in the tennis world are not actually happening and/or are not of interest to tennis fans (as @miffedmax put it, "This thread has run it's course and then some" when closing the main thread about Maria's comeback) is neither convincing (with articles being published in the press daily and with these threads having a large number of views and posters) nor helpful.

I understand that tennisforum might be concerned about legal issues (either real requests from Maria's team or perceived risk of such). If this is the case, it would be of service to the forum users to outright say that an executive decision has been made to submit to self-imposed censorship and to not discuss anything about Maria. It would be sad if one can talk more freely on the BBC or Daily Mail sites about tennis things than in tennisforum, but at least this would be understandable. If this is not the case, then clear rules should be posted about what is OK and what is not OK to be posted, with examples, and these rules should be enforced in cleaning the threads with infarctions issued, not used to close them.
Indeed. And it's also applied very selectively. For example, how many threads have there been about the GOAT debate yet I don't see them being closed or removed?

With regard to a concern about legal issues, if mods have been told to apply censorship in certain cases because of a threat of legal action then I agree, we should be told that.
 

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Re: Excessive moderation II

This place is becoming more and more sterile every week. Slowly the fun is being moderated away and it's harmful to this board in the long run.

The most innocuous things are being deleted and I really don't understand why. Doesn't help this board to stay active. The excessive moderation goes well beyond Sharapova threads.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Re: Excessive moderation II

Why was the thread about Steve Simon's comment abut possibly reviewing the WC rule closed? Yes, some people had gone off topic and used it as an excuse to Maria bash but surely good moderation here would have been to remove those comments not just close down the whole thread. Even in the relatively short time I have been a member of this forum it has become a shadow of its former self in terms of active users and number of threads. I acknowledge that the mods on here generally do a good job but stifling legitimate debate will only hasten the forum's descent into the grave. And really it should be for the users to decide what they want to talk about not the mods.
It's not that we are trying to stifle debate, but the threads about Maria have been going round in circles for over a year now. While we understand that it's an important topic and posters want to discuss it, it seems that some are unable to do this and stick to the rules of the forum at the same time. That's despite numerous warnings in the multiple threads about the topic. The original thread that we closed had numerous clean ups due to bickering, offensive posting, attacking players (not just Maria), off topic discussion. Each time it was reopened, posters were asked to stay on topic. We try to be as fair as we can, and we know we can't please everyone, but how many times can we say the same thing without taking, what we felt, was the only course of action

I agree with @Mauriac. I have the feeling that moderation of Sharapova-related threads in GM has exceeded normal scope at some time a little after the CAS decision, and since then there is a lack of clear policy on this issue along with heavy-handed blocking of threads that might be perceived as negative to Maria.

Yes, those threads often have juvenile characterizations by both sides, and yes, they are sometimes repetitive with the same points being recycled and facts/opinions about Maria's adventures before CAS and the tribunal rehashed. Sometimes this is because new posters ask about this information, and sometimes it is because proponents of either side feel that their view needs repeating. But overall these threads have contained lots of useful information about a topic that like it or not is at the forefront of tennis news at the moment and will still be there for the foreseeable future. Pretending that developments regarding Maria's comeback and the positive and negative reactions in the tennis world are not actually happening and/or are not of interest to tennis fans (as @miffedmax put it, "This thread has run it's course and then some" when closing the main thread about Maria's comeback) is neither convincing (with articles being published in the press daily and with these threads having a large number of views and posters) nor helpful.

I understand that tennisforum might be concerned about legal issues (either real requests from Maria's team or perceived risk of such). If this is the case, it would be of service to the forum users to outright say that an executive decision has been made to submit to self-imposed censorship and to not discuss anything about Maria. It would be sad if one can talk more freely on the BBC or Daily Mail sites about tennis things than in tennisforum, but at least this would be understandable. If this is not the case, then clear rules should be posted about what is OK and what is not OK to be posted, with examples, and these rules should be enforced in cleaning the threads with infarctions issued, not used to close them.
We've not been asked by anyone to stifle debate. As I say, we're happy for posters to discuss things in a reasonable manner, but that seems impossible with this topic.

It's a favourite sport to lock threads, censor any debate and remove posts. What's new? On this board you can pretend you agree with everything. Certain players can't be touched.
Not true at all. We don't want to spend our time locking threads, deleting/editing posts. We joined this forum because, like everyone here, we enjoy tennis and wanted a place to discuss it. Mods are volunteers on here, and they still want to enjoy the forum like other posters. And no one said anywhere about you having to agree with anything or only being allowed to like certain players. You can disagree with what you want and dislike who you want, as long as you don't do in an offensive way.

This place is becoming more and more sterile every week. Slowly the fun is being moderated away and it's harmful to this board in the long run.

The most innocuous things are being deleted and I really don't understand why. Doesn't help this board to stay active. The excessive moderation goes well beyond Sharapova threads.
If you have examples, we can certainly look at it. No one is trying to stop people having fun and anything that is deleted is because it is against the rules.

I'm happy for posters to PM me, or any other mod/admin, if they have any major concerns about things, and we'll try our best to resolve the issue. But as I said earlier, we can't always please everyone and any moderation we do, is because it's against the rules of the forum.

The rules have always been there. They didn't just come into effect March 2016
 

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Re: Excessive moderation II

@John., I think one reason is the (too) permissive policy regarding offensive and insulting posts (at least in my opinion). I often see posts edited or deleted by mods with no further repercussions to the posters. The admins should use their right to ban those who are here only to insult or mock players and other board members. GM often looks like a cesspool which makes many decent posters to stay away from it.
Have you considered that even the site traffic might improve if said posters are being forcibly removed if they refuse to comply?
On the other hand said permissive policy only makes mods and admins job harder since the usual suspects know they risk very little when posting offensive and rude comments. They do it again and again.
What I'm saying is that the rules in place are good, but not enforced enough to make a real impact.
 
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