Tennis Forum banner

Who has more to prove at the US Open?

  • Kim Clijsters, the slamless WTA Tour #1

    Votes: 57 72.2%
  • Venus Williams, the perennial GS runner-up

    Votes: 22 27.8%
21 - 40 of 86 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
20,884 Posts
Sam L said:
It's really funny how you guys turn these situations around to suit your arguments.

Of course Kim has more to prove in career, at every slam, Venus has achieved more. WE ALREADY KNOW THAT.

The initial point about proving comes from the fact that since there was NO Serena at the US Open, who should win it. Who is most likely to win it. And there you can't argue that it's Venus since she's lost 5 slams to her. Kim has lost to Justine and Venus in her last two slams, what's she got to prove? Even if there's no Serena, somebody can easily beat her.

But Venus has to prove that without Serena, she can easily win this slam, otherwise, we all know that she's not winning GS, not because of Serena, but because her overall level of play has fallen since two years ago.

If you guys want to switch words and sentences around, and play the grammar game and live in denial, go ahead.
Venus is in a no win situation with some people. If she wins the USO this year, then she won it because Serena wasn't there. If she loses, then she just doen't have it any more. So I guess she would be better off if she did one of the following:

Quit tennis
Withdraw from the open
 

· Chionophile
Joined
·
40,406 Posts
lizchris said:
Venus is in a no win situation with some people. If she wins the USO this year, then she won it because Serena wasn't there. If she loses, then she just doen't have it any more. So I guess she would be better off if she did one of the following:

Quit tennis
Withdraw from the open
You should really get the facts before you jump to conclusions. At least about me anyway.

This is about TeeRexx's thread called "No Serena, no excuses for Kim..."

Now I find that thread really funny, and I've told myself a million times to ignore the trash he pumps out, but can't help myself, and there is this one thread he posted (which I could easily bump up) where he got his theory wrong in a matter of days. But I won't.

But to get back to the matter. Now what the hell does "no excuses for Kim" mean? Kim lost the French to Justine, Kim lost Wimbledon to Venus. Both are playing. So technically and historically, Kim could lose to either in the final. And she may well.

And so I said, shouldn't it be "No Serena, no excuses for Venus". Since in the last 7 slams she lost 5 finals to HER. That means, since there's no Serena, technically and historially speaking, Venus should win this. Right?

So then I happen to accidentally use the word "prove" and our resident Dr. Higgins "Volcana", comes along with his pompous ass noting that Venus has nothing to prove at slams or at the Open. (Which OF COURSE I agree to, but which wasn't my point). Furthermore, this poster cynicole has taken all that out of context and created this thread, without any background information or the argument at hand.

But whatever, from all this, all I know better is to ignore the clown and his sidekick further.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
20,649 Posts
DA BACKHAND said:
They both have nothing to prove. Clijsters is still very young so she can wait until next year before winning a slam. As for Venus, she's injured and won GS before.
didn't you say that Kim has more to prove than Venus just a few posts ago?

To everyone else,
I think people are too blinded by their bias to realize that Venus has to actually prove that she is the second best player in the tour after her sister. Theoritically speaking, since everyone feels that Venus is the #2 best after Serena, shouldn't the fact that Serena is not playing be the determining factor that Venus should win. Sure Venus is injured but unless she doesn't enter the tournament or withdraws before she enters a match, she is basically saying that she is going there to win. I refuse to take into consideration the fact that she is injured. She is a world class athlete and if she doesn't feel fit enough to win this tournament then don't. But if she does enter and doesn't win, people need to seriously her current place in the scene of elite tennis.
 

· Team WTAworld, Senior Member
Joined
·
11,823 Posts
People keep bringing up the fact that Venus only won one title this year. But tell me something, let's examine Venus's fucking year:

Australian Open- lost to Serena (the eventual Champion)

Antwerp- won (beating the current world #1)

Miami- lost to Shaunessy (while being injury free)

Warsaw - retired injured with her current ailment

French Open- was injured but tried to play (lost nevertheless)

Wimbledon- was injured but tried to play (beat the current world #1 in the semis but lost to the eventual champion)

Of the three tourneys she played this year, she won one of them. Do you people honestly believe that an uninjured Venus would only win one title this year? Please. You tell me what the hell she has to prove to anyone :rolleyes:. She's a multiple slam winner. Admittingly, she hasn't won a major in two years. But she's suffering the same fate as most of the women in the draw. Serena Williams. She has won this thing twice. She has been injured most of the season. What does she have to prove?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
7,256 Posts
I don't think Venus has ANYTHING to prove!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
851 Posts
Kim definitely has more to prove. She's the first slamless number one in WTA history and she doesn't have a great record against Venus, Serena or Justine. Venus has won the event in the midst of a 34 match win streak, defended her title, and been the runner up in five of the last six slams. But most of all, everyone knows that Venus has been suffering from a serious injury and hasn't played since Wimbledon. If she makes it to the semis, that would be a great accomplishment considering her lack of play and injuries. Kim has no excuse for not having won a slam other than she hasn't played well enough when it counted. Everyone knows this is probably the best chance she will have along with the Aussie Open in January.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
7,256 Posts
shap_half said:
boy you know i heart you and all but if you think that venus doesn't need to prove that she is still the best after her sister by winning the US Open then I will want to buy you cute glasses. :kiss:
Hey, you're my sweetheart too! :kiss:

But look...Venus is a 4-time grand slam champ. She has proven that she can win on the big stage. I hope that she'll be able to win again in NY this year. But if she doesn't, then I don't see her being any less of a champ than she is. If she needs to get the win for herself, then I hope she does. But I'd rather her go out there, play her best and see what happens. I feel the same with Kim. She's proven and has accomplished so much in her young life. I think that she will win a grand slam. Will it be in NY this year? Maybe. But if it isn't, it doesn't mean (to me) that she is any less of a player.

Maybe I'm interpreting this all differently than you.

Anyhow, let's just kiss and make out. :smooch:
 

· Registered
Joined
·
3,765 Posts
Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Dick Riley said:
Of the three tourneys she played this year, she won one of them. Do you people honestly believe that an uninjured Venus would only win one title this year?
My problem with this "Venus is the real #2" argument is that she doesn't have the results of a No.2 player this year. When I rank the players in my mind I don't want to base my assessments on their "potential" (the "what ifs", i.e. "if Venus wasn't injured..."; if Kim wasn't choking...", etc).

(Hmm...where is Monica Seles ranked? I guess she's the real top 10 player because, based on potential, she should be higher than Rubin. After all, she has had more Slams in her career, blah blah blah.)

I haven't even voted in this poll. I nearly cast my vote for Kim right off the bat...but the arguments for Venus having less to "prove" haven't been very convincing. But part of that is because I don't care about all the things that happened over a year ago.

The thing with Kim is that a lot of people are dismissive of her No 1 ranking anyway. Should she lose, it just confirms what lots of people believe.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
851 Posts
cynicole said:
My problem with this "Venus is the real #2" argument is that she doesn't have the results of a No.2 player this year. When I rank the players in my mind I don't want to base my assessments on their "potential" (the "what ifs", i.e. "if Venus wasn't injured..."; if Kim wasn't choking...", etc).

(Hmm...where is Monica Seles ranked? I guess she's the real top 10 player because, based on potential, she should be higher than Rubin. After all, she has had more Slams in her career, blah blah blah.)

I haven't even voted in this poll. I nearly cast my vote for Kim right off the bat...but the arguments for Venus having less to "prove" haven't been very convincing. But part of that is because I don't care about all the things that happened over a year ago.

The thing with Kim is that a lot of people are dismissive of her No 1 ranking anyway. Should she lose, it just confirms what lots of people believe.
Venus has been affected by this stomach pull since the French Open. Before that she was the runner up in Australia. But what people are referring to when they say she is the real number two is the fact that if you give Venus and (insert any player's name beside's Serena) two racquets, a can of balls, and send them out onto any court in the world, then Venus is the overwhelming favorite.
 

· Team WTAworld, Senior Member
Joined
·
11,823 Posts
I know she certainly doesn't have to prove she can beat Kim and Justine or anyone else in the draw. The head-to-heads speak for themselves :). Whatelse she can prove is beyond me :confused:
 

· Registered
Joined
·
3,765 Posts
Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Sam L said:
This is about TeeRexx's thread called "No Serena, no excuses for Kim..."

Now I find that thread really funny, and I've told myself a million times to ignore the trash he pumps out, but can't help myself, and there is this one thread he posted (which I could easily bump up) where he got his theory wrong in a matter of days. But I won't.

But to get back to the matter. Now what the hell does "no excuses for Kim" mean? Kim lost the French to Justine, Kim lost Wimbledon to Venus. Both are playing. So technically and historically, Kim could lose to either in the final. And she may well.

And so I said, shouldn't it be "No Serena, no excuses for Venus". Since in the last 7 slams she lost 5 finals to HER. That means, since there's no Serena, technically and historially speaking, Venus should win this. Right?

So then I happen to accidentally use the word "prove" and our resident Dr. Higgins "Volcana", comes along with his pompous ass noting that Venus has nothing to prove at slams or at the Open. (Which OF COURSE I agree to, but which wasn't my point). Furthermore, this poster cynicole has taken all that out of context and created this thread, without any background information or the argument at hand.

But whatever, from all this, all I know better is to ignore the clown and his sidekick further.
I actually didn't pay much attention to Mr. Rexx's thread, mostly because a lot of the posts in it show up as "ignore" messages for me.

Did I take it all out of context? Yes, most likely. I deliberately phrased the poll as I did. I think EVERYONE has something to prove. I thought of the two who I thought had the most to prove. I posted a simple question. I wanted to see the arguments people would come up with. And I responded with a counter-argument to the first response I saw.

I had no intention to cite examples from the original thread.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
3,765 Posts
Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Midnite Surfer said:
Venus has been affected by this stomach pull since the French Open. Before that she was the runner up in Australia. But what people are referring to when they say she is the real number two is the fact that if you give Venus and (insert any player's name beside's Serena) two racquets, a can of balls, and send them out onto any court in the world, then Venus is the overwhelming favorite.
Meghann Shaughnessy? Maggie Maleeva?

I want results. "Potential" is good enough for lots of people but not for me.

Winning the US Open is a good enough result for me.
 

· Banned
Joined
·
1,856 Posts
:) Gosh, you folks are a "piece of work"...!!! :rolleyes:

Venus as the 2nd best player in the world has been attributed to her by the insecure fans of the Belgians...!!! No where have I seen any Venus fan state that "the injured Venus who has only played 3 tourneys this year (winning 1) "is the 2nd best player". The Girl is injured...!!! Yes, she peformed somewhat delicately at Wimbledon, losing to Serena, while beating the new No.1, but, where oh where have her fans "declared her no.2"...??? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that both Belgians have out performed Venus this year, so where is this "notion" of Venus being the 2nd best coming from. Fans of the Belgians, as a retort to the Williams fans...!!!

Now, Venus' losses in the slam finals were to only one player. Serena. So it stands to reason that at those events Venus performed only second to Serena. Serena's absence from the USOpen field gives everyone else the same opportunity to win. Venus's failure to win it means no more than anyone else failure to win it without Serena.

And, Half-Halfs assertions that if Venus doesn't win has no more significance than Kim's or Justine's failure to win it. Now, given all the venting I've done, I do feel Venus has an excellent chance to win it, should she show up completely healed and healthy. Irrespective of what Half-Half might claim. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: I base this prediction solely on how Venus has performed in past Slams...!!!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
20,649 Posts
persond said:
:) Gosh, you folks are a "piece of work"...!!! :rolleyes:

Venus as the 2nd best player in the world has been attributed to her by the insecure fans of the Belgians...!!! No where have I seen any Venus fan state that "the injured Venus who has only played 3 tourneys this year (winning 1) "is the 2nd best player". The Girl is injured...!!! Yes, she peformed somewhat delicately at Wimbledon, losing to Serena, while beating the new No.1, but, where oh where have her fans "declared her no.2"...??? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that both Belgians have out performed Venus this year, so where is this "notion" of Venus being the 2nd best coming from. Fans of the Belgians, as a retort to the Williams fans...!!!

Now, Venus' losses in the slam finals were to only one player. Serena. So it stands to reason that at those events Venus performed only second to Serena. Serena's absence from the USOpen field gives everyone else the same opportunity to win. Venus's failure to win it means no more than anyone else failure to win it without Serena.

And, Half-Halfs assertions that if Venus doesn't win has no more significance than Kim's or Justine's failure to win it. Now, given all the venting I've done, I do feel Venus has an excellent chance to win it, should she show up completely healed and healthy. Irrespective of what Half-Half might claim. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: I base this prediction solely on how Venus has performed in past Slams...!!!
yeah, it isn't the williams fans who are saying that venus and serena are the two best players in the world? and that venus is better than everyone else save Serena? please. :rolleyes: if people are ever to concede to venus being the second best player in the world then she needs to win this otherwise, she's not.
 

· Banned
Joined
·
1,856 Posts
cynicole said:
My problem with this "Venus is the real #2" argument is that she doesn't have the results of a No.2 player this year. When I rank the players in my mind I don't want to base my assessments on their "potential" (the "what ifs", i.e. "if Venus wasn't injured..."; if Kim wasn't choking...", etc).

(Hmm...where is Monica Seles ranked? I guess she's the real top 10 player because, based on potential, she should be higher than Rubin. After all, she has had more Slams in her career, blah blah blah.)

I haven't even voted in this poll. I nearly cast my vote for Kim right off the bat...but the arguments for Venus having less to "prove" haven't been very convincing. But part of that is because I don't care about all the things that happened over a year ago.

The thing with Kim is that a lot of people are dismissive of her No 1 ranking anyway. Should she lose, it just confirms what lots of people believe.


Cynicole,

The Belgians have both won 6 titles this year, and Venus only won 1. Where then is the difficulty you're having deciding who has out performed whom this year...??? No one can argue with the Belgians' results this year...??? And, the number 1 ranking has determined that Kim has performed the most and attained the highest number of points, so what's the difficulty...???
 

· Banned
Joined
·
1,856 Posts
shap_half said:
yeah, it isn't the williams fans who are saying that venus and serena are the two best players in the world? and that venus is better than everyone else save Serena? please. :rolleyes: if people are ever to concede to venus being the second best player in the world then she needs to win this otherwise, she's not.

Those are indeed, YOUR words, not the words of the Williams fans...!!! There is enough controversy on this board already without your having to create more...!!! So, according to your logic, Kim or Justine MUST win it inorder to "validate" their rankings...!!!...???...!!!
 
21 - 40 of 86 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top