Tennis Forum banner
1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,212 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
To me, this looks as though Kim is ranked about right.<br />Of the top six players, five are GS title winners inthe last 3 years. Kim is not.<br />She's 2-8 against the rest of the top six in 2001.<br />She's also the youngest.<br />I'd expect the 2-8 record to become around 5-5 in 2002.<br />No GS title til 2003 I think, especially if Mary Pierce returns.

Kim Clijsters vs GS winners in the Top Six.

vs Davenport

LOSS: 2001 OZ______ [H] (O) 4-6 0-6 <br />LOSS: 2001 WB______ [G] (O) 1-6 2-6 <br />WINS: 2001 Stanford__ [H] (O) 6-4 6-7(5) 6-1 <br />LOSS: 2001 Champs__ [H] (I) 6-1 3-6 6-7(3)

vs Capriati

LOSS: 2001 RG______ [C] (O) 6-1 4-6 10-12

vs V. Williams

LOSS: 2001 US______ [H] (O) 3-6 1-6

vs Hingis

LOSS: 2001 Sydney__ [H] (O) 4-6 4-6 <br />WINS: 2001 IW______ [H] (O) 6-2 2-6 6-1

vs S.Williams*

LOSS: 2001 IW______ [H] (O) 6-4 4-6 2-6 <br />LOSS: 2001 Miami___ [H] (O) 0-6 2-6

* No Serena isn't ranked ahead of her. But the way the ITF ddatabase, once you looked up Clijsters vs Williams, its real easy to get stats for both matchups. So I did.

NOTE: Monica Seles and Kim Clijster did not play any WTA macthes in 2001. They did meet in Hopman Cup with Seles winning. But like Fed Cup, the ability to beat an opponent in Hopman Cup frequently doesn't translate.
 

·
Moderator - Juniors
Joined
·
13,511 Posts
I think looking at those head to heads, you really see how quickly KIm continues to improve as the year progresses. She was able to get to the matches against the bigger names, but once she got there was generally being outplayed. Too many errors, not enough experience. However, as the year has progressed, and Kim gained more experience, we saw her becoming more of a threat to beat the bigger names.

You see, one loss to Hingis, 2 losses to Serena, and a loss to Davenport all coming before Roland Garros, during the first half of the season. Then, she narrowly loses to Capriati, got a win on Davenport at Stanford, gave her a run for her money at the Chase, and the only two losses which were lopsided were against Venus, eventual champion who cruised through many others, and Davenport at Wimbledon, who basically just out hit Kim. And by the looks of it, Kim learned a lot from that match because she came back real strong in their last two matches.

I definetly expect Kim to have a better record against the other top girls in 2002, she seems ready to make the next step forward.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,635 Posts
I think she is ready to make the next step too. I hope she practise hard in the offseason now and makes a kicking start in 2002

Go KIM <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <img src="graemlins/bounce.gif" border="0" alt="[Bounce]" /> <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <img src="graemlins/kiss.gif" border="0" alt="[Kiss]" /> <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,115 Posts
I like Kim, but IMO she won't be taking any steps further unless those ranked ahead of her take steps backwards, as in they don't play as well as they did last year. The only two I can see her moving ahead of is Jen and maybe Martina, but ranked behind her are Serena and Monica, and I'm fairly confident that barring injury they will both move up.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
27,118 Posts
Whilst I agree that Kim is ranked in the right place, based on results this year, I would also like to point out that with wins over Capriati, Hingis and Serena in the last six months, Monica has improved since their meeting at the Hopman cup as well.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
27,118 Posts
I am, of course, being pedantic but Monica has beaten a top player more recently than Kim has, including Jelena Dokic in Brazil only a week before she beat Kim in Japan.
 

·
Veelieve!!!
Joined
·
32,910 Posts
Monica has had her time, I think. How long is it ago that she beat a real top player? <hr></blockquote>

I appreciate your elation, but I think some of you clijsters fans need to settle down to earth. She's greatly improved but the competition is NOT packing up to go home just yet....

We all know that Monica was injured for months and not playing the chase championships caused her to lose even more points, hence the reason she ended the year 10th... Aren't Martina Hingis and Jennifer Capriati REAL top players??? The last time I checked she defeated them both during the summer <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,212 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Can we be realistic for a second? We're talking about winning GS titles here. Often, that invloves beating three other players who have a realistic chance of winning. Sometimes four. If youonly have to play twopotential winners, people talk about your draw 'opening up'.

Look at Kim, look at Serena, look at Justine, look at Monica. Did any of them beat three elite players in a row in a tournament?

And as spectacular as Serena was when she was on this year, she really sustained it through ONE tournament. Toronto.

As far as I'm concerned, the #4 to #10 ranked players ALL have to prove they can win a GS title.

It's a marathon, not a sprint.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,904 Posts
Who do you consider the elite players? Are we going by general winning percentage, winning percentage vs. the top-ranked players, performance in Slams?

I don't think it's wholly unrealistic to think of Clijsters having a chance to win a Slam next year but that's only considering the pace and consistency at which she has developed as a player these past 2-3 years.

Though Clijsters played Davenport close in Munich it was a Davenport who had played for 4 straight weeks. And Kim's competition during the fall indoor season wasn't exactly high-calibre. Granted, a lot of that was the fault of Sept. 11.

And, as I've said before, aside from the Roland Garros final, Kim's Slam checkouts were embarrassingly bad.

As for Serena...<br />She beat Davenport at the U.S. Open and managed to dominate over Henin and Hingis. Granted, the two featherweights weren't doing anything brilliant but Serena was playing more than well enough to beat them. The only other person she apparently had any difficulty with aside from Venus and Lindsay was Anca Barna...in the first round. (Or was that your point?) No shame in losing to Venus.

Let's balance out the Clijsters record with the matches she hasn't won since Roland Garros:

's-Hertogenbosch NED<br />FR L Justine HENIN (BEL) 4-6 6-3 3-6

Wimbledon GBR<br />QF L Lindsay DAVENPORT (USA) 1-6 2-6

Knokke-Heist BEL<br />SF L Iroda TULYAGANOVA (UZB) 0-6 4-6

San Diego, CA USA<br />32 L Ai SUGIYAMA (JPN) 3-6 3-6

Los Angeles USA<br />QF L Nathalie TAUZIAT (FRA) 4-6 2-6

New Haven USA<br />SF L Lindsay DAVENPORT (USA) Walkover

U.S. Open USA<br />QF L Venus WILLIAMS (USA) 3-6 1-6

Tokyo JPN<br />SF L Jelena DOKIC (YUG) 5-7 4-6

Stuttgart GER<br />16 L Anke HUBER (GER) 3-6 6-4 3-6

W.T.A. Tour Championships GER<br />SF L Lindsay DAVENPORT (USA) 6-1 3-6 6-7(3)

<br />I do think that out of all the players who haven't won slams Kim is the likeliest to garner one. But she will have to prove it to me.
 

·
Team WTAworld, Senior Member
Joined
·
41,227 Posts
Originally posted by Kart:<br /><strong>I am, of course, being pedantic but Monica has beaten a top player more recently than Kim has, including Jelena Dokic in Brazil only a week before she beat Kim in Japan.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Kim is still much younger, and I don't call Jelena Dokic a real topplayer. Jelena gets crushed everytime she plays against the real topplayers. She's not ready for the top yet.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
27,118 Posts
per4ever, I don't consider Jelena a top player either, but my point was that Monica beat her (albeit on clay) only a week before Jelena beat Kim.

When I said Monica had beaten a top player more recently, I was talking about over the summer - Kim beat Lindsay in Stanford (notably after Lindsay had beaten Monica), but Monica beat Serena and Martina in back to back matches several weeks later.

To be honest I don't think it matters that much in the grand scheme of things, I just wanted to point out that Kim isn't the only player who has had some breakthrough wins this year.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top