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Just curious...if Stosur suddenly started shrieking, would you stop being a fan of hers?
You're a good guy, and I really am sorry if I've offended you, but I'm just trying to call a spade a spade here. This thread is about using shrieking to gain an unfair advantage, I believe that's the case, so I don't see the point in beating around the bush. A lot of stuff has been brought forward on this thread so far supporting that view. I'll admit, not all of it has made sense, but quite a lot has. But in 300-plus posts, all I've seen in defense of shrieking has been along the lines of "come on now", "get over it, it's part of tennis", "bitter chicks", and assorted gifs.

To answer your question, I'd probably still quite like Sam if she was a shrieker (like I quite like Vika), but doubt if I'd have become a fan.

Don't bother, stromatolite is just bitter as bile that Shanksur is 1-14 against two of the most notorious shriekers on tour.
See what I mean?
 

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In all seriousness, while I understand people's complaints about the shrieking, I really don't think Maria does it to cheat or to distract her opponents....honestly I think she probably started doing it as some sort of marketing ploy, envisaging it would help make her known to non-tennis fans and increase her endorsements :lol:
 

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OK let's not push it. That one study that is cited is very, very, very preliminary. There's a whole world of difference between taking a random group of people in front of computer screen and checking their reaction time with or without shrieking, and comparing it to what trained, professional tennis players do on the court.
The study may have been preliminary, but the effects were large and statistically significant. The effects are also consistent with what Jankovic described:

"The receiver feels like the ball is coming way faster than it is because of the grunt that comes with the ball. So you back up a little bit and you think this huge thing is coming at you, almost a bomb, and the ball doesn't really go that fast."

I agree that more research is needed to back this up, but so far nobody has refuted it either. This has been around, and known to the WTA, for almost 3 years now, and they've done nothing with it.
 

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So, if I get it right, according to some folks here, to voice a complaint about shrieking, you have to be Mother Theresa with a racquet and only if your ranking is 1.
Geez, no wonder lower ranked girls dare say nothing about it.
To easy to slam them that they are bitter for losing.
 

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Old or new, doesn't make it right. Maybe this is just JJ's enough is enough moment. It doesn't matter if the complaint came from a fading star or a common audience, the only thing matters is the truth. There're many people feel physically uncomfortable because of their high-decibel and high-pitched shrieking, which distracts opponents and alienates audience, this is the truth. There's no way to ban grunting totally, but some excessive grunting should really be restricted and punished.
I never said it was right. If you read my post carefully you'll notice that I've stated that grunting could be potentially disturbing for some players.

The fact that Sharapova has been grunting for 10 years means that everybody who has played her in those years has been disadvantaged by it. How many trophies, ranking points and big fat paychecks has Sharapova collected over the years partly as a result of her grunting? Why reward her further for that advantage by granting her an amnesty for the rest of her career?

As for complaining to the WTA or shutting up, that's clearly not going to cut it. The WTA already knows that there are players who have a problem with this. World no. 1(!) Wozniacki made it clear that she wants action taken just a few months ago, but unless pressed really hard, the WTA is obviously not prepared to take on the grunting divas, or even to phase in rules in the long term. The gutless wonders have just fobbed it off to the academies, and even in the unlikely event that this has any real effect on the younger generation, it still leaves the current generation of non-grunters out in the cold.

The only way action is going to be taken is if enough high-profile athletes go public with their complaints to encourage other players to open their mouth as well. As long as it's just a few isolated private complaints here and there, the WTA has no incentive whasoever to take action.
You've proven your point, grunting is the worst thing in tennis. However implicating that Sharapova became a successful athlete because of her grunting and the players who grunt, shriek or whatever have a higher chance of succeeding is downright stupid. Yeah, I know, there was some research done. Heck, nowadays every damn thing can be researched. Next thing we'll learn is that people born on the 15th of March have a higher chance of succeeding in sports then those born on June 29th or something. Building your theories around scientific research isn't exactly the smartest thing to do sometimes, but what do I know. You seem to know it better regardless. Following your theory would mean that if Sharapova stops grunting she'll probably slump outside of Top 100 as her biggest weapon on her way to past success would be eliminated.

Besides, what would you suggest in order to stop players from grunting? Strip them off the winning purse, don't count ranking points? It's easy to say something has to be done about it, but no one has stated what EXACTLY should be done. Enough with the blurred picture and hiding behind scientific reports, give me some real answers instead of complaining and neglecting Sharapova's success.
 

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Besides, what would you suggest in order to stop players from grunting? Strip them off the winning purse, don't count ranking points? It easy to say something has to be done about it, but no one has stated what EXACTLY should be done. Enough with the blurred picture and hiding behind scientific reports, give me some real answers instead of complaining and neglecting Sharapova's success.
Umpires need to start applying the hindrance rule and it will be solved overnight. Simple as that.
However implicating that Sharapova became a successful athlete because of her grunting and the players who grunt, shriek or whatever have a higher chance of succeeding is downright stupid.
It's not stupid, they shriek/shout to gain an advantage over the opponent, otherwise why bother faking it?
 

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So, if I get it right, according to some folks here, to voice a complaint about shrieking, you have to be Mother Theresa with a racquet and only if your ranking is 1.
Geez, no wonder lower ranked girls dare say nothing about it.
To easy to slam them that they are bitter for losing.
You don't need to be Mother Theresa or be #1, but you do need to not be someone who gets their coach to pull out stopwatches and who complains when their opponent takes more than 15seconds to serve while taking nearly a minute to serve yourself and who generally whines about every single damn thing, if you want to complain about gamesmanship.
 

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You're a good guy, and I really am sorry if I've offended you, but I'm just trying to call a spade a spade here. This thread is about using shrieking to gain an unfair advantage, I believe that's the case, so I don't see the point in beating around the bush. A lot of stuff has been brought forward on this thread so far supporting that view. I'll admit, not all of it has made sense, but quite a lot has. But in 300-plus posts, all I've seen in defense of shrieking has been along the lines of "come on now", "get over it, it's part of tennis", "bitter chicks", and assorted gifs.

To answer your question, I'd probably still quite like Sam if she was a shrieker (like I quite like Vika), but doubt if I'd have become a fan.



See what I mean?
Even if shrieking does give the player ''an unfair advantage'', I really doubt players do it on purpose :shrug: (And I'll admit, I'm slightly biased on the issue). You win matches and tournaments because you're good enough to do so, not cuz you freak the shit out of your opponent because you shriek like a madwoman. I mean, it's just stupid. And to be honest, it's been a part of tennis for so many years that if something was going to be done about it, it'd have been done LONG AGO. The WTA doesn't seem to have a problem with it, certain players do, and if they want it to be changed, then it's their job to step up and do something about it. Going on about it in press conferences won't change a thing.
 

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Umpires need to start applying the hindrance rule and it will be solved overnight. Simple as that.

It's not stupid, they shriek/shout to gain an advantage over the opponent, otherwise why bother faking it?
Someone else raised an issue that some players grunt in late stages of the match because of fatigue. Applying the hindrance rule won't allow you to get tired during matches after that solution of yours. So no, it's not THAT simple :shrug: Unless you want to set double standards and allow grunting to happen only after let's say two hours of play when there a genuine possibility of players getting tired and not faking it? Simple, huh? :D

Do you take it for granted Sharapova or Azarenka are faking it? The lack of grunts during practice in circumstancial evidence at best, besides that, suggesting that practice is more competitive then the actual match and should be treated as a real proof is hogwash!
 

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Even if shrieking does give the player ''an unfair advantage'', I really doubt players do it on purpose :shrug: (And I'll admit, I'm slightly biased on the issue).
Why Sharapova doesn't shriek during trainings or pre-match warm-ups? She does it on purpose, so does Azarenka (case in point her match against Penetta posted earlier in the thread). This issue needs to be solved, the sooner, the better for everyone (minus a few cheaters).
 

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The study may have been preliminary, but the effects were large and statistically significant. The effects are also consistent with what Jankovic described:

"The receiver feels like the ball is coming way faster than it is because of the grunt that comes with the ball. So you back up a little bit and you think this huge thing is coming at you, almost a bomb, and the ball doesn't really go that fast."

I agree that more research is needed to back this up, but so far nobody has refuted it either. This has been around, and known to the WTA, for almost 3 years now, and they've done nothing with it.
I think it needs to be backed up on the court, with professional tennis players to be relevant. It shouldn't be something very hard to do. Who's in with this? :eek:h: Finally our chance to destroy Crapova.
 

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Someone else raised an issue that some players grunt in late stages of the match because of fatigue. Applying the hindrance rule won't allow you to get tired during matches after that solution of yours. So no, it's not THAT simple :shrug: Unless you want to set double standards and allow grunting to happen only after let's say two hours of play when there a genuine possibility of players getting tired and not faking it? Simple, huh?
Even if you accept that players may grunt later in the match because of fatigue, it is difficult to sustain the notion that they might scream at 105 decibels due to tiredness. It's not occasional grunting that we are talking about here, it is persistent, loud screaming that is a problem. Sharapova is louder than an ambulance siren.
 

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Someone else raised an issue that some players grunt in late stages of the match because of fatigue. Applying the hindrance rule won't allow you to get tired during matches after that solution of yours. So no, it's not THAT simple :shrug: Unless you want to set double standards and allow grunting to happen only after let's say two hours of play when there a genuine possibility of players getting tired and not faking it? Simple, huh? :D

Do you take it for granted Sharapova or Azarenka are faking it? The lack of grunts during practice in circumstancial evidence at best, besides that, suggesting that practice is more competitive then the actual match and should be treated as a real proof is hogwash!
How is that circumstancial evidence at best?:haha: They perform the exact same motions, exactly the same muscle tensions, yet suddenly in the "match mode" their bodies require to produce several seconds long 100dB high pitched shrieks to reproduce exactly the same motions? Please, there's enough BS one can stomach.
 

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Even if you accept that players may grunt later in the match because of fatigue, it is difficult to sustain the notion that they might scream at 105 decibels due to tiredness. It's not occasional grunting that we are talking about here, it is persistent, loud screaming that is a problem. Sharapova is louder than an ambulance siren for crying out loud.
Still, some players could claim to be disturbed even by not as loud grunting after all and might complain to the umpire that they were hindered (if the aselto's idea should be put through). What evidence will you have that they weren't actually hindered by the quieter grunting and are simply weaseling their way into a victory? :shrug:
 

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Still, some players could claim to be disturbed even by not as loud grunting after all and might complain to the umpire that they were hindered (if the aselto's idea should be put through). What evidence will you have that they weren't actually hindered by the quieter grunting and are simply weaseling their way into a victory? :shrug:
Umpire is there for a reason (to make the calls). With every rule/law there needs to be someone to interpret it, individually in every single case.
 

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Even if shrieking does give the player ''an unfair advantage'', I really doubt players do it on purpose :shrug: (And I'll admit, I'm slightly biased on the issue). You win matches and tournaments because you're good enough to do so, not cuz you freak the shit out of your opponent because you shriek like a madwoman. I mean, it's just stupid. And to be honest, it's been a part of tennis for so many years that if something was going to be done about it, it'd have been done LONG AGO. The WTA doesn't seem to have a problem with it, certain players do, and if they want it to be changed, then it's their job to step up and do something about it. Going on about it in press conferences won't change a thing.
The size of the advantage can be debated, but let's be honest, whether or not there IS a meaningful advantage is what we're talking about here. I'm not saying that Maria, Vika and others would have been hopeless scrubs languishing on the ITF circuit without shrieking, but if I didn't believe it had significantly helped their careers I would never have responded to this thread in the first place.

And like many on this thread have already said, "it's part of tennis" is meaningless as an argument. If it's wrong it's wrong, even if it's been around for a thousand years. And the WTA has shown that it will do nothing if no pressure is brought to bear. "Going on about it in press conferences" is just about the only way players have of embarrassing them into taking action.

As for "on purpose", I'll think that's a grey area, but they are aware of the objections to shrieking but are defiant and dismissive when confronted on the issue, and are clearly making no attempt to tone it down, which if you've followed the thread so far would probably be enough to satisfy most people.
 

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If rules are being broken (I'm not saying they are), you can't say "Nothing is being done about it, so it must be okay" -OR- "They're not doing it on purpose"

If a player is consistently stepping over the line when serving.. it doesnt matter if no one does anything or if the player is not doing it on purpose. That act gives the individual a small advantage and it should be stopped.

If shrieking is against the hindrance rule it should be stopped
 
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Umpire is there for a reason (to make the calls). With every rule/law there needs to be someone to interpret it, individually in every single case.
How come an umpire can decide whether the hindrance call is faked? Not a single person in the stands can be hindered by the quieter grunts and yet the other player comes forward and claims to be disturbed. The time between serve is a strict rule, yet there are notorious offenders and the umpires can't even force their stance on that one. Calling late for a hawkeye is also hogwash sometimes, yet the umpires cannot force the issue on a constant basis (I was impressed with Nouni handling the Nalbandian case, but that was very rare, most of the time the call for hawkeye comes after several seconds and is allowed against the logic of the rules). I wouldn't have trusted the umpires who are easy to be influenced by any given player and the grunting hindrance rule is way too far in the grey area to be accepted within the strict rules IMO.

How is that circumstancial evidence at best?:haha: They perform the exact same motions, exactly the same muscle tensions, yet suddenly in the "match mode" their bodies require to produce several seconds long 100dB high pitched shrieks to reproduce exactly the same motions? Please, there's enough BS one can stomach.
They can start faking it during practice suddenly and throw you out of the comfort zone. Since the grunting hasn't been dealt with for all those years, why suddenly claim there won;t be more faking and the grunters won't try to keep hold of their loud habits and trounce all the evidence against them? You really think it's that simple? Heck, perhaps all tennis academies will teach the juniors how to grunt as loud as possible in order to gain advantage now. Wonder why they're not doing so, if faking such an abvious weapon is very simple indeed :shrug:
 

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I think it needs to be backed up on the court, with professional tennis players to be relevant. It shouldn't be something very hard to do. Who's in with this? :eek:h: Finally our chance to destroy Crapova.
I'm all for more research, preferably evidence taken from real matches (although it's hard to create the control conditions you would need in real matches). My point is: given the size of the effects found in Scott Sinnett's study, why isn't the WTA commissioning this additional research, or at least pushing for follow-up studies by scientific institutes? Instead, they've stuffed these findings into the deepest drawer they can find and are pretending they don't exist.
 

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Still, some players could claim to be disturbed even by not as loud grunting after all and might complain to the umpire that they were hindered (if the aselto's idea should be put through). What evidence will you have that they weren't actually hindered by the quieter grunting and are simply weaseling their way into a victory? :shrug:
I think you've misunderstood the hindrance rule. It is not for the player to report hindrance, it is entirely down to the umpire's judgement. No umpire is going to call hindrance because of the occasional, relatively quiet grunt of a player caught off balance or reaching for a shot out wide. But there is a clear difference between this and screaming when you hit a serve or a normal rally shot.
 
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