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Discussion Starter #1
The difference between Justine and Kim - and why Justine has a major and Kim doesn't - is that Justine is more honest about her mental problems. To this day, Kim maintains that she didn't choke against Serena in Australia. That's such a lie (does she not remember the two double faults in a row while serving for the match?), and until Kim is honest about her problems and confronts them, she can't overcome it all.

Today Kim was clearly nervous, and it clearly caused her game to be off, yet she said this in her post-match interview:
Q. Just how much were the nerves churning in that first set when nothing was going for you?
KIM CLIJSTERS: Well, I mean, of course, like I was nervous, and maybe a little bit more than normal, of course. I mean, it's always a big occasion.
But not that I think it was influencing me on my tennis. I think so far in this tournament I haven't played my best tennis. And I haven't come close to what I'm capable of doing. I still went through to the final, so I think that's a good sign as well.
But, no, I wasn't that nervous. I mean, of course I was, you know, nervous. But I think in a good way.
Justine, meanwhile, has always admitted to having problems with her nerves, and she has worked on it. In her interview after beating Serena, she said she panicked when serving for the match at 5-4. In today's post-match interview she says:
Q. In the first set, you're hitting the ball so crisply, so sharply. Kim, there was so much air under her ball in the first set. Did you sense that she just didn't have very much rhythm out there, or perhaps was a bit nervous?
JUSTINE HENIN-HARDENNE: I think she was a little bit nervous, but I was, too. I was really nervous, I can tell you. I didn't sleep very well last night.
Justine has no problem admitting she was nervous, and she even adds that she didn't sleep well. This honesty has allowed Justine to deal with her problems.
 

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Don't think kim has any mental problems. She's an honest girl, so why should she lie about that. You know how spontaneous she is, if she had been too nervous I could already hear her telling the press:
"Oh man!I was soooooo nervous (laughter)".
It's just that I admire her for her mental toughness, the way she deals with her defeats, it's amazing. But I admit, if your boyfriends name's Lleyton Hewitt, it's not difficult to get over you loss quickly:p
 

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well, I think that maybe jenglisbe could be a bit right: when they asked kim in one of the recent interviews if she regretted anything about that match against serena, she said she didn't, because ther hadn't been anything she could've done to prevent serena from winning, that serena just suddenly played much better tennis, and Kim just couldn't raise her level...

that doesn't sound like that match... we all saw with our own eyes how kim wasn't playing a good as before, so I can't really understand why she's denying that...

I'm not saying she's denying it on purpose, 'cause as ans said: she IS an honest girl, but maybe it's just something that's deep inside her head, which she doesn't really know is there, until at some point of the match, where it becomes tight... (says majo the shrink... :p)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Look at today's interview - she said she is playing well in doubles but not singles. HELLO!! Kim, could it be that the pressure of being #2 and being a threat to win the French was getting to you??

majo - That makes me think you are right; Kim won't/can't admit to herself (and thus us) that she gets nervous and chokes. Apparently, she really doesn't understand why she played better in Rome and why she played better in the doubles here than in singles.

ans - Can you honestly tell me Kim didn't choke in the SF of the Australian Open? What about the two double faults she served in a row when serving for the match?
 

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jenglisbe said:
ans - Can you honestly tell me Kim didn't choke in the SF of the Australian Open? What about the two double faults she served in a row when serving for the match?
I can't, I'm not Kim, do I know what was going on in Kim's head. It was just an opinion I stated basing myself on Kim's personality. :)
 

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Jenglis, forgive me for saying so, but you are starting to get on my nerves :mad: . Everytime I notice you saying something about Kim, it's about her mental frailty, and her unability to confront it. Today, you stated it in at least 7 threads I think, but before that, you were doing it, everytime she lost... :rolleyes:

She's only human you know. She'll only be 20 tomorrow. She had an off day, after a fortnight in which she never played brilliantly, and in which she nevertheless got to the final. Had she been playing awesome the last few matches, and not today, I might see it differently, but she didn't.

She might have to look into her trainingscheme to peak better - she was way better during Berlin or Rome, than during RG, perhaps the same for Sydney/AO.

She did win the Masters, remember. Maybe it's not a Slam, but it's pretty big I'd say. And she did it beating Serena.

And no, I do not believe she choked against Serena in Oz. Did you actually watch that match?
Ree started to play all or nothing when she was 5-1 down, and suddenly it became all. On both matchpoints, she played fantastic, it wasn't Kim suddenly making UE's out of the blue. And when Kim served those 2 double faults to go 0-30 when serving for the match a second time, she did manage to get back to 30 all before going down. I do think Kim gave up after that game, but that's something different, that's not choking...

So please, stop your pseudo-psycological bla bla, as I do not think you have any qualification in that direction. Or limit it to GM, I know what to expect overthere...

I'm sorry, I do not usually react this way, but ever since the AO I've been annoyed reading your psycho-analysis over and over again, and I just wanted to get this of my chest.

No hard feelings whatsoever for the rest tough... ;) :angel:
 

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Just because Kim doesn't say what you want her to say does not mean she is not being honest with herself.

A. Because her analysis of her matches and why she loses some of them might simply be different than yours
B. Kim is entitled to keep certain things to herself. Say she has the burning desire to be number 1. If she chooses not to state that openly for fear of backlash if she doesn't make it or because people will start to put more pressure on her, so what? Say she does think she choked in the AO, but she just doesn't want to discuss it with journalists because they are going to be bring it up every single time she loses, so what? As long as she is honest to herself and doesn't kid herself, she'll be allright.

You say this might be a repeat from last year. How's that? She worked her way up to number 2 in the world, not losing before the semis in any of her tournaments. I really don't know if she could have gotten a better year than this one. Just that one final step. Really, you can't call getting to the final of a GS a slump.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
nicky - What about the Scottsdale final where Kim was up a set and a break and lost the match? What about the German Open final where Kim had 2-3 match points against Justine and lost?

I love Kim, but that doesn't mean I can't be critical of her. She has lost 2 matches this year in which she had multiple match points. She lost another one where she was a set and a break up. She had a match against Capriati where she was a set and a break up and lost the 2nd set (though she did win the match).

To ignore this pattern of Kim's is to be in denial. She clearly is having trouble maintaining leads, and she also is having trouble dealing with the pressure of being a favorite (as her singles play during the French Open shows - remember, she said she has been playing fine in doubles).
 

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Mentally I don't think Kim has a problem.
She has probably learnt from her dad not to tell the press everything and everything, do you blame her????
I just think she may get a little tense in Singles. She's not as relaxed as in her doubles. I think she is more relaxed in the doubles, not as much pressure, ahe is always smiling, maybe she needs to bring some of that into her singles??

I have been told similar things because if I am playing both singles and doubles i am relaxed in my doubles and a little tighter in my singles hence more errors.

Just an opinion
 

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Discussion Starter #10
nm_cb - Isn't your post contradictory, though? You say Kim doesn't have problems mentally, but then you say she get tense in singles. Well, tenseness is a mental thing. She needs to learn to overcome that tenseness if she wants to win majors. It's what Justine had to do.
 

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This is a tricky topic, because none of us are ever really going to know what's going on here--we can just guess. I personally don't think Kim has trouble being the number 2 seed or the favorite. She does, however, have times when her forehand simply goes to pieces, she can't get a first serve in, and her rhythm completely disappears. To be fair, Kim has been doing this for awhile against all kinds of opponents--I think all Kim fans let out a collective groan of "not again!" when we see her start to blast balls halfway to another continent. Because sometimes she's just not all there, for whatever reason. So it might not have anything to do with "big" matches, it might just be luck of the day.
On the other hand, this has happened during several important matches this year, and I don't think it's unreasonable to say that there might be a psychological issue here. But, again, none of us really know.
The important thing is that Kim, unlike so many other players, doesn't live for tennis. She recognizes that life is more than winning or losing a match, and in the end, this is what will make her an incredible player capable of overcoming any psychological difficulty she might encounter.
 

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Not really, because it might just be how she was taught to play singles, I know I was and I was just making a suggestion that she should loosen up. I didn't mean tense, I just couldn't think of another word. I haven't had much sleep, I was up early yesterday and up late last night and then up early this moring. I can't think of the right word, she shows emotion but we rarely see her smile like in doubles, maybe she needs to just needs to pproach it differently, I just can't think of the word. I am studying for my French test so my head is in another place!!

I didn't mean anything from what i said.
 

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Right now I just think Kim needs all the support from her fans and doesn't need any criticism. Sure she possibly felt the pressure of being the number2 seed. But in that first set Kim led 30-0 on her first service game, yet failed to win it, also Henin's 2 first service games Kim led 40-0 but couldn't break. Had she won those games the match would have been a lot closer, I'm not saying Kim would have won, just that it would have been closer.

Right now, I think all of her FANS should support her and get behind her. Yeah she needs to improve her forehand, serve and netplay, but right now more than anything I think she needs the support from her fans. I really hope the Belgian media are kind to her and don't write nasty stories about her.

Personally I can't wait for the hardcourt season, I think Kim will begin to play a lot better then. I also think for Kim to have played 2 French Open finals is an unbelievable effort especially given clay clearly is her weakest service.

And just cause she hasn't told the media she choked at AO, doesn't meen she hasn't admitted it to herself, or her coach or Lleyton or someone else.
 

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kim&lleytonrule said:
Personally I can't wait for the hardcourt season, I think Kim will begin to play a lot better then. I also think for Kim to have played 2 French Open finals is an unbelievable effort especially given clay clearly is her weakest service.
I completely agree. Very well done, Kimmy. But I haven't written her off on grass yet! Let's see what happens in two weeks, shall we?
 

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Peridotpixie said:
I completely agree. Very well done, Kimmy. But I haven't written her off on grass yet! Let's see what happens in two weeks, shall we?
True, but I think her best chances at a slam lie at AO and US Open, but yeah I haven't written her off on grass, I just don't hold big expectations, and also don't want any pressure on her on grass. But I think before the French Open, I didn't think she'd make the final and she did, so that's a great effort.

I just hope her Grandma has those pancakes ready, Kimmie will need her familys support now.
 

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I agree with nm_cb. I look at pics of her in doubles matches and then I watch her play in singles and she needs to loosen up a little in singles. Her and Ai do fabulously in doubles, probably one of the reasons is because she's more relaxed, but focused at the same time.
 

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Jenglis,

It's not because I'm a fan, that I cannot stand critisism. What does annoy me is that everytime Kim loses, you come with the same "she's having mental problems" stuff, and not just once, but in multiple threads.

Has it ever occured to you that Kim lost a match because her opponent was better on the day? You know, there is a girl on the other side of the net who also wants to win.

And you seem to forget the finals she did win this year. Remember Sydney? Remember IW - after the Slams one of the biggest to win- , remember Rome? She lost the first set in the Rome final didn't she? And she still managed to win.

And Berlin, yes she missed those match points. But one of them was a volley missed by 2 cm. If the volley had been missed by a very large margin, you might have said "she was too tight". But 2 cm isn't much. And she had already come back from a set and a break down in the second to win that second set. I call that mental strenght. Had the volley been in, everybody would heve been blabbing about Justine's "choking", because she let a lead slip. So 2 cm is the difference between Juju and kim "choking" :rolleyes: .

So what, sometimes the tennisgods are with you, sometimes not.

Still I see no reason to say Kim has a mental problem no. She's not perfect on court, she's human. But that's something else.

And finally, did you happen to watch the match on BBC 2 yesterday? Virginia Wade commenting (the Beeb has real tenniscommentators, not just a couple of fans, like VRT). She said in every match, every player has a moment in which they get tight. If you're lucky, it's somewhere in the middle at 1-1. If not, it's at 5-4 when serving for the match. But it always happens. And I'd say she knows about stuff, don't you?
 

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nicky said:
And finally, did you happen to watch the match on BBC 2 yesterday? Virginia Wade commenting (the Beeb has real tenniscommentators, not just a couple of fans, like VRT). She said in every match, every player has a moment in which they get tight. If you're lucky, it's somewhere in the middle at 1-1. If not, it's at 5-4 when serving for the match. But it always happens. And I'd say she knows about stuff, don't you?
I watched BBc too ;) much better commentators if you ask me... VRT started to really get on my nerves, especially when Karl and Steven started having some personal discussions :rolleyes:
 

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majo said:
I watched BBc too ;) much better commentators if you ask me... VRT started to really get on my nerves, especially when Karl and Steven started having some personal discussions :rolleyes:
Still better than La 2, they were trying to tell "Juju" how to beat "Clijsters"
 
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