Tennis Forum banner

Is Flemish a real or fake language?

  • Flemish is a real language.

    Votes: 19 37.3%
  • Flemish is a fake language, but it's a unique Dutch dialect.

    Votes: 17 33.3%
  • It's just corrupt Dutch.

    Votes: 15 29.4%

  • Total voters
    51
1 - 20 of 95 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,626 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Damnit, wrong forum. Okay, let's make this about tennis then. Um, what's your favourite Flemish player Sabine or Kim?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,883 Posts
I'd say Flemish and Dutch are like British English, American English and Australian English. Same language, different accent, sometimes different words.

And why would we mob you Messenger? We are very peaceful people... ;)

:wavey:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,635 Posts
but josh said once that flemish is older so maybe we are the dialect;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fieke

·
Registered
Joined
·
234 Posts
Don't want to brag here ;) but I'm studying Germanic philology at the uni of Leuven, more precisely English and Dutch. We learn that there isn't such a thing as a 'Flemish language'. There is Dutch. Period. Dutch is spoken in The Netherlands, Northern-Belgium and some the ABC-isles.
Flemish people do have different accents, some different words and sometimes even some different sentence constructions. But it's still the same language as spoken in TN.
just to clear this up :angel:
 

·
Chionophile
Joined
·
40,073 Posts
karma said:
Don't want to brag here ;) but I'm studying Germanic philology at the uni of Leuven, more precisely English and Dutch. We learn that there isn't such a thing as a 'Flemish language'. There is Dutch. Period. Dutch is spoken in The Netherlands, Northern-Belgium and some the ABC-isles.
Flemish people do have different accents, some different words and sometimes even some different sentence constructions. But it's still the same language as spoken in TN.
just to clear this up :angel:
Thanks for clearing it up. I find history of langauges really interesting. What is 'Frisian'?

So it other words, Dutch-Flemish are about as different as British English-American English. Americans don't get another official language, do they, so I think it's only fair that there should only be Dutch. :)
 

·
Miss Verstand
Joined
·
16,531 Posts
karma said:
Don't want to brag here ;) but I'm studying Germanic philology at the uni of Leuven, more precisely English and Dutch. We learn that there isn't such a thing as a 'Flemish language'. There is Dutch. Period. Dutch is spoken in The Netherlands, Northern-Belgium and some the ABC-isles.
Flemish people do have different accents, some different words and sometimes even some different sentence constructions. But it's still the same language as spoken in TN.
just to clear this up :angel:
im studying the exact same thing in gent ;)

in flanders people speak dutch. period. the term flemish is just used to make a distinction between the language spoken in the netherlands and in flanders. but it's not entirely the same, there are differences in grammar and vocab etc.

ive always been taught that even dialects are real languages and since flemish is more than just any dialect, i'd say it is a real language ;)

the UN doesnt make a distinction between the two of them because both flemish and dutch people are able to understand written dutch perfectly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,626 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Well if you have different grammar and vocabulary then it's at least a lot more different than American and British English.

I'm told that you pronounce the letter w like the English w and not like the Dutch and German w. Which is weird because practically no language does that. :)

(And since when is Bosnian a language? That's a discussion for another time I think).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,626 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
nicky said:
I'd say Flemish and Dutch are like British English, American English and Australian English. Same language, different accent, sometimes different words.

And why would we mob you Messenger? We are very peaceful people... ;)
Well you post in inhumane amounts and now you have a "mob" thread. What are we supposed to think? The Belgians will soon take over WTAworld! ;)
 

·
Team WTAworld, canis sapiens sapiens
Joined
·
4,495 Posts
And they also have picard in there. It's not a dialect but it doesn't have any official use as far as I know so why would they translate the Universal Declaration of Human Rights into picard?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,742 Posts
Flemish has 26 letters in the alphabet, Dutch only 23 ;) The Dutch pronounce a w as v, a v as f, a b as p, s as sh, a z as s or sh ;)

I think the difference is different from American and British English because the history is different. American and British English use to be the same but they've grown apart. It's the other way around with Dutch. The difference between Flemish and Dutch Dutch used to be much greater. For economic reasons, they decided it would be better if we had one language. They used the Amsterdam dialect as basis for the Dutch language, to a lot of Flemish people this was almost a foreign language.
Unlike American and Brits, we do use the same spelling and grammar rules. I'd say Flemish is mainly a spoken language. We say 'gij' instead of the Dutch 'jij' (means 'you'), but we write jij (unless we're writing to friends or on online message boards ;) ). There's not that much of a difference in the written language, there's a huge difference in the spoken language.
 

·
Vamorza!
Joined
·
57,175 Posts
Corrupt Dutch :p

Nah, seriously, there even ain't something like "Flemish". "Flemish" is a couple of Dutch dialects, called Flemish cos they're spoken in Flanders, but I'd say my dialect ain't much different to a major part of Flemish (according to Bram it's like Antwerps...). Maybe the Flemish just 'conserved' their dialects better; dialects are dying over here but it seems that in Flanders they still speak like 100 years ago.
 

·
Team WTAworld, Administrator, aka Nibbler
Joined
·
5,919 Posts
No linda that's not true. "Dutch" has always been pronounced differently according to the region where it was spoken. Even in the Netherlands those differences reamin, someone from Amsterdam does not speak the same way as someone from Maastricht or Groningen. Just like someone from Brugge does not speak the same way as someone from Brussels or Hasselt.

Even if both the Dutch and the Flemish talk "standard Dutch" (the written language) there will still be differences in pronunciation. I always say that the Dutch spoken in the Netherlands (well except in the south then ;)) does sound a lot like English. Like many Dutch people pronounce the r in water just like the English do. Also the g-sound has evolved to something like a rh-sound (goed - rhoed ;)). In Flanders we have peserved a lot more the original pronunciation of those sounds, an r still sounds like an r and a g is still a g. Just listen to some old tapes of the Dutch TV, like from the 1950s and you will see that back then Flemish Dutch and Dutch Dutch were a lot more alike. it's only since the 60s and the 70s started to speak what is now called Poldernederlands (I know irma won't like that ;)).

Anyway, I think the comparison between American and British English is actually a valid one. We pronounce things differently and we have different words and expressions just like the Americans and Brits and just like them our written language is the same.

For instance if you translate the sentence : "I feel like having a swim today." into Dutch it would look like this :

Netherlands : "Ik heb zin om te gaan zwemmen vandaag."
Belgium : "Ik heb goesting om te gaan zwemmen vandaag."

Both words can be found in the Dutch dictionary but next to goesting will be written between brackets "ZNdl", meaning Southern Dutch (Dutch spoken in Belgium). Just like in an English dictionary you'll find next to the word "fries" AE, meaning American English.

So to conclude, the language is called Dutch, but noone in the Netherlands and Belgium actually speaks the standard language unless it's for a formal meeting and even then the differences in pronunciation and certain expressions remain.

Up until the early 1900s Dutch was also the official language of South Africa. Even though people over there spoke differently than over here, Dutch was still the written language. Then they started calling it Afrikaans and adapted the written language to the spoken one but Afrikaans is still perfectly understandable for Dutch-speakers and vice versa.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,742 Posts
Josh said:
:
Netherlands : "Ik heb zin om te gaan zwemmen vandaag."
Belgium : "Ik heb goesting om te gaan zwemmen vandaag."
True, but we'll never write the word goesting, we only say it. I cannot imagine using the word 'goesting' in an essay for school, that's not done.
 

·
Team WTAworld, Administrator, aka Nibbler
Joined
·
5,919 Posts
BTW I don't think any of the three options presented in the poll are valid.

In the original meaning today Flemish is the dialect spoken in the provinces of West-Flanders, parts of East-Flanders and the north of France (French Flanders). It is certainly not a fake language, just because it's a dialect doesn't mean it's a "fake" language but because it's a dialect I don't think you can call it a "real" language since Dutch is the name of the umbrella language.
And it's certainly not corrupt Dutch either since the origins of the Dutch language are to be found in the medieval county of Flanders. So Flemish was in fact the first dominating dialect of the Dutch group.
 

·
Team WTAworld, Administrator, aka Nibbler
Joined
·
5,919 Posts
Beggin' Beguine said:
True, but we'll never write the word goesting, we only say it. I cannot imagine using the word 'goesting' in an essay for school, that's not done.
Tine, goesting is a perfectly correct word, it's in the dictionary. I know we've often been taught that those Flemish words are somehow inferior to the superior "Dutch" word but that's not true. The word goesting is perfectly valid and certainly not less than "zin".
 
1 - 20 of 95 Posts
Top