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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
in other words, ranking counts for nothing, how would they seed the women at the tournament. Obviously, Sharapova would be seeded ahead of Petrova, for example. The idea is to seed according to who's likeliest to win, with grass court results being the best predictor.

Well, don't ignore ranking ...:) but grass results should be 90%, and ranking only 10%.

Ignore ranking. It gets in the way of the discussion.

01 Venus - Five out of the last six finals, defending champ
02 Sharapova - 2004 champ. 2004, 2005 Birmingham. Could have been #1, but losing to Jackson at Birmingham indicate slippage.
03 Mauresmo - Made semi the two years before.

Higher than their ranking, based on style, or history

xx Vaidisova
xx Hingis
xx Mirza
xx Peng
xx Zvonareva
xx Molik
xx Safina
xx Jackson

Note: That doesn't mean I'd seed them ....

Lower than their ranking, based on style, or history

xx Clijsters - Good grass court player, but her Wimbledon results ... :(
xx Henin-Hardenne - Last three Wimbledons, 1r, DNP, SF. what can you do?

Proposed Seeding.....Current Ranking................
....................................................
01 Venus ........... 01 MAURESMO, AMELIE FRA
02 Sharapova ....... 02 CLIJSTERS, KIM BEL
.................... 03 HENIN-HARDENNE, JUSTINE BEL
.................... 04 SHARAPOVA, MARIA RUS
.................... 05 PETROVA, NADIA RUS
.................... 06 DAVENPORT, LINDSAY USA
.................... 07 KUZNETSOVA, SVETLANA RUS
.................... 08 DEMENTIEVA, ELENA RUS
.................... 09 PIERCE, MARY FRA
.................... 10 SCHNYDER, PATTY SUI
.................... 11 MYSKINA, ANASTASIA RUS
.................... 12 WILLIAMS, VENUS USA
.................... 13 VAIDISOVA, NICOLE CZE
.................... 14 SCHIAVONE, FRANCESCA ITA
.................... 15 HINGIS, MARTINA SUI
.................... 16 GROENEFELD, ANNA-LENA GER
.................... 17 SAFINA, DINARA RUS
.................... 18 HANTUCHOVA, DANIELA SVK
.................... 19 PENNETTA, FLAVIA ITA
.................... 20 KIRILENKO, MARIA RUS
.................... 21 SUGIYAMA, AI JPN
.................... 22 IVANOVIC, ANA SCG
.................... 23 PEER, SHAHAR ISR
.................... 24 SREBOTNIK, KATARINA SLO
.................... 25 DECHY, NATHALIE FRA
.................... 26 MEDINA GARRIGUES, ANABEL ESP
.................... 27 BARTOLI, MARION FRA
.................... 28 LIKHOVTSEVA, ELENA RUS
.................... 29 JANKOVIC, JELENA SCG
.................... 30 LI, NA CHN
.................... 31 ARVIDSSON, SOFIA SWE
.................... 32 GOLOVIN, TATIANA FRA
.................... 33 CHAKVETADZE, ANNA RUS

.................... 38 MIRZA, SANIA IND
.................... 41 PENG, SHUAI CHN
.................... 47 ZVONAREVA, VERA RUS
.................... xx Molik



I will be modifying this initial post, as people's various rationals get posted.
 

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Patty is very bad on grass? :confused:
 

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If Wimbledon did a mixed seeding (grass accumen and ranking) like the men....

TOP 16 SEEDS
1. Amelie Mauresmo
2. Maria Sharapova
3. Kim Clijsters
4. Justine Henin-Hardenne
5. Venus Williams (I would say top 4, but it seems too far for them to bump her)
6. Svetlana Kuznetsova
7. Martina Hingis
8. Nadia Petrova
9. Elena Dementieva
10. Patty Schnyder
11. Anastasia Myskina
12. Nicole Vaidisova
13. Francesca Schiavone
14. Anna-Lena Groenefeld
15. Dinara Safina
16. Daniela Hantuchova

The only changes from the actual rankings would be Sharapova @ #2 instead of #4 (especially considering she's 8 points out of 3rd place), Venus @ #5 instead of #10 (more Wimbledon titles than EVERY WOMAN PLAYING SINGLES COMBINED), Svetlana @ #6 (although because of Lindsay's w/d, she would be #6 anyway, (I put her above Petrova because she has a better record and consistently makes the 2nd week) and Martina @ #7 instead of #13 (she's won once and been to the 2nd week a couple of other times).

That being said, I don't think they'll do it, sadly. They are making a statement that men are different (read: better, more valuable) than women. So they give men more money and men better seedings based on their grass abilities (considering it's such a short season), but NAW, women are just there too look pretty and hold up dishes when it's all over.
 

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Volcana said:
01 Venus - Five out of the last six finals, defending champ
02 Sharapova - 2004 champ. 2004, 2005 Birmingham. Could have been #1, but losing to Jackson at Birmingham indicate slippage.
03 Mauresmo - Didn't play last year, but made semi the two years before.

Momo lost in SF to Lindsay 76(5) 67(4) 46 last year

She have not played in 2003
 

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mrserenawilliams said:
If Wimbledon did a mixed seeding (grass accumen and ranking) like the men....

TOP 16 SEEDS
1. Amelie Mauresmo
2. Maria Sharapova
3. Kim Clijsters
4. Justine Henin-Hardenne
5. Venus Williams (I would say top 4, but it seems too far for them to bump her)
6. Svetlana Kuznetsova
7. Martina Hingis
8. Nadia Petrova
9. Elena Dementieva
10. Patty Schnyder
11. Anastasia Myskina
12. Nicole Vaidisova
13. Francesca Schiavone
14. Anna-Lena Groenefeld
15. Dinara Safina
16. Daniela Hantuchova

The only changes from the actual rankings would be Sharapova @ #2 instead of #4 (especially considering she's 8 points out of 3rd place), Venus @ #5 instead of #10 (more Wimbledon titles than EVERY WOMAN PLAYING SINGLES COMBINED), Svetlana @ #6 (although because of Lindsay's w/d, she would be #6 anyway, (I put her above Petrova because she has a better record and consistently makes the 2nd week) and Martina @ #7 instead of #13 (she's won once and been to the 2nd week a couple of other times).

That being said, I don't think they'll do it, sadly. They are making a statement that men are different (read: better, more valuable) than women. So they give men more money and men better seedings based on their grass abilities (considering it's such a short season), but NAW, women are just there too look pretty and hold up dishes when it's all over.
There is no practical difference between seeds 5-8. I think if they were to bump Venus, they would only bump her up to 8, it would have the same effect as bumping her to 5 without ruffling as many feathers.

SF
 

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Volcana said:
in other words, ranking counts for nothing, how would they seed the women at the tournament. Obviously, Sharapova would be seeded ahead of Petrova, for example. The idea is to seed according to who's likeliest to win, with grass court results being the best predictor.

Well, don't ignore ranking ...:)

01 Venus - Five out of the last six finals, defending champ
02 Sharapova - 2004 champ. 2004, 2005 Birmingham. Could have been #1, but losing to Jackson at Birmingham indicate slippage.
03 Mauresmo - Didn't play last year, but made semi the two years before.

Higher than their ranking, based on style, or history

xx Vaidisova
xx Hingis
xx Mirza
xx Peng
xx Zvonareva
xx Molik
xx Safina
xx Jackson

Note: That doesn't mean I'd seed them ....

Lower than their ranking, based on style, or history

xx Clijsters - Good grass court player, but her Wimbledon results ... :(
xx Henin-Hardenne - Last three Wimbledons, DNP, 1r, DNP. what can you do?

Proposed Seeding.....Current Ranking................
....................................................
01 Venus ........... 01 MAURESMO, AMELIE FRA
02 Sharapova ....... 02 CLIJSTERS, KIM BEL
.................... 03 HENIN-HARDENNE, JUSTINE BEL
.................... 04 SHARAPOVA, MARIA RUS
.................... 05 PETROVA, NADIA RUS
.................... 06 DAVENPORT, LINDSAY USA
.................... 07 KUZNETSOVA, SVETLANA RUS
.................... 08 DEMENTIEVA, ELENA RUS
.................... 09 PIERCE, MARY FRA
.................... 10 SCHNYDER, PATTY SUI
.................... 11 MYSKINA, ANASTASIA RUS
.................... 12 WILLIAMS, VENUS USA
.................... 13 VAIDISOVA, NICOLE CZE
.................... 14 SCHIAVONE, FRANCESCA ITA
.................... 15 HINGIS, MARTINA SUI
.................... 16 GROENEFELD, ANNA-LENA GER
.................... 17 SAFINA, DINARA RUS
.................... 18 HANTUCHOVA, DANIELA SVK
.................... 19 PENNETTA, FLAVIA ITA
.................... 20 KIRILENKO, MARIA RUS
.................... 21 SUGIYAMA, AI JPN
.................... 22 IVANOVIC, ANA SCG
.................... 23 PEER, SHAHAR ISR
.................... 24 SREBOTNIK, KATARINA SLO
.................... 25 DECHY, NATHALIE FRA
.................... 26 MEDINA GARRIGUES, ANABEL ESP
.................... 27 BARTOLI, MARION FRA
.................... 28 LIKHOVTSEVA, ELENA RUS
.................... 29 JANKOVIC, JELENA SCG
.................... 30 LI, NA CHN
.................... 31 ARVIDSSON, SOFIA SWE
.................... 32 GOLOVIN, TATIANA FRA
.................... 33 CHAKVETADZE, ANNA RUS

.................... 38 MIRZA, SANIA IND
.................... 41 PENG, SHUAI CHN
.................... 47 ZVONAREVA, VERA RUS
.................... xx Molik



I will be modifying this initial post, as people's various rationals get posted.
I don't think Venus would EVER be #1 this year. Maybe if she was in the top 6, I could see it, but even though she's the best grass player this side of Steffi Graf (and Serena), they wouldn't bump her up THAT much IMHO.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
mrserenawilliams said:
That being said, I don't think they'll do it
No chance on God's Green Earth. But I thought it might be fun to solicit other people's 'why's'.

BTW, no way would I give the #1 seed to a player who's never won a grass court tournament. I don't care what she's ranked.
mrserenawilliams said:
I don't think Venus would EVER be #1 this year.
Of course not. This is just a discussion between people on the board, not any prediction of what the committee will do.
 

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sfselesfan said:
There is no practical difference between seeds 5-8. I think if they were to bump Venus, they would only bump her up to 8, it would have the same effect as bumping her to 5 without ruffling as many feathers.

SF
Yeah, I guess you're right....but it does matter a little bit, in terms of the intangibles. But, yeah, if they put her up that high, it would ruffle some feathers definately
 

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mrserenawilliams said:
If Wimbledon did a mixed seeding (grass accumen and ranking) like the men....

TOP 16 SEEDS
1. Amelie Mauresmo
2. Maria Sharapova
3. Kim Clijsters
4. Justine Henin-Hardenne
5. Venus Williams (I would say top 4, but it seems too far for them to bump her)
6. Svetlana Kuznetsova
7. Martina Hingis
8. Nadia Petrova
9. Elena Dementieva
10. Patty Schnyder
11. Anastasia Myskina
12. Nicole Vaidisova
13. Francesca Schiavone
14. Anna-Lena Groenefeld
15. Dinara Safina
16. Daniela Hantuchova

The only changes from the actual rankings would be Sharapova @ #2 instead of #4 (especially considering she's 8 points out of 3rd place), Venus @ #5 instead of #10 (more Wimbledon titles than EVERY WOMAN PLAYING SINGLES COMBINED), Svetlana @ #6 (although because of Lindsay's w/d, she would be #6 anyway, (I put her above Petrova because she has a better record and consistently makes the 2nd week) and Martina @ #7 instead of #13 (she's won once and been to the 2nd week a couple of other times).

That being said, I don't think they'll do it, sadly. They are making a statement that men are different (read: better, more valuable) than women. So they give men more money and men better seedings based on their grass abilities (considering it's such a short season), but NAW, women are just there too look pretty and hold up dishes when it's all over.
:yeah: I agree w/your seedings and the fact that they aren't going to do it.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hey! Give me some idea of your opinions of the various players abilities on grass...
 

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Volcana said:
xx Henin-Hardenne - Last three Wimbledons, DNP, 1r, DNP. what can you do?
Actually, It's SF DNF 1r, but if you expand, it's F SF SF DNP 1r, so it's easier for be to believe in her grass game
 

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Volcana said:
BTW, no way would I give the #1 seed to a player who's never won a grass court tournament. I don't care what she's ranked.
I'd put her @ #1 simply because she IS #1 right now, and she's done better there this past decade than everyone not named Williams or Davenport, and over the past 4 years has out performed everyone except the Willies
 

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Discussion Starter #15
ToyBoy said:
Amélie played last year ;)
My bad. I was trying to be careful, and go from the WTA charts. And so managed to include a DNP for '06 in everybody's stats.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
mrserenawilliams said:
I'd put her @ #1 simply because she IS #1 right now, and she's done better there this past decade than everyone not named Williams or Davenport, and over the past 4 years has out performed everyone except the Willies
Nothing wrong with your reasoning. But my focus is grass court results, and there are a lot of players with better results on that surface. If I were gving current ranking any weight, my seedings would be closer to yours.
 

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Volcana said:
Hey! Give me some idea of your opinions of the various players abilities on grass...
Venus, Sharapova, and Mauresmo have the best games for grass, of all the players playing this year. Vaidisova has a good game, but I'm not sure how developed it is yet. All 3 (4) of them have solid serves and good strokes. What's more, though, is that they aren't afraid to step inside the lines. And for Venus and Amelie, they aren't adverse to coming end and deciding points @ the net.

Justine has a good game for grass, but I haven't seen her beat a GRASS player on that surface yet.

The rest of the players play grass like hardcourt. That's why they don't win against players who are smart about grass.
 

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Volcana said:
My bad. I was trying to be careful, and go from the WTA charts. And so managed to include a DNP for '06 in everybody's stats.
oh....:hug: hehehe it's ok
 

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I just think the "grass season" is so ridiculously short that to seed based on it is subject to wild swings based on perhaps one good run at eastbourne or something..
 
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