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If Serena won 3 of 7 of next GS and was #1....

1299 Views 32 Replies 18 Participants Last post by  Bright Red
Would her ranking be valid if she got beat by Venus 4 out of 4, or does it just apply to Jenn?
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I'll have to save my answer for if and when it actually happens.
There you go shane, Brightred gave you your answer. Feel the double standard? ;)
There's no double standard here. The situations are entirely different. Jennifer's situation is real. She is currently #1, and currently she has no wins over Venus who's currently the best.

The situation involving Serena has not and may not ever occur. Why bother debating?
Excuse me but to say that you will have to save your answer is totally disingenuous. Shane was asking if the EXACT SAME SITUATION applied to Serena as Capriati would we be asking whether her #1 ranking were hollow. In order to be consistent you MUST MUST answer yes. And anyone reading this thread knows that.:rolleyes:
That is not Brightred's original answer either.

Hypocrisy, it is ripe on this board.
Good question shane..

Double standard alert!!

Just answer it hypothetically for arguments sake!!!
The point is that Serena has not been playing well enough to win 3 of the next 7 slams. If she eventually plays well enough to do so, I could see myself as calling her the true #1. Face it, Serena hasn't done it. Venus has and Jennifer has. Of those two players, Venus is the best so Jennifer must beat her.

So until I see Serena playing at the level she needs to to win 3 out of 7 consecutive slams, I'll have to reserve judgment.
Furthermore, unlike Capriati, Serena does have at least one victory over Venus already. So there.
actually Serena beat Venus at the Grand Slam Cup in Munich 1999.. huge Tier 1. so she has beat Venus
Actually the grand slam cup was dropped for it's lack of credibility and is not included in the official wta head to head, so that victory is as important as a back yard hit out.

brightred, you just said that the last 4 are split between jen and williams and williams is the best , without rhtyme or reason...guess what I can use the same analogy. they have split the last 4 and Jen is the best, because Venus is a no hoper on rebound and clay.
Forget all this crap about double standards, never happening, yada yada yada. Lets say IF.

IF Serena won 3/7 of the next slams, and got to #1, but was beaten by Venus 4/4, AND Venus was #2, I'd say the ranking doesn't reflect how the players are really playing.

I wouldn't say not "valid", and I wouldn't say that for Carpiati, either. But if the #2 can beat the #1 so consistently, then the ranking might not be the true indicator of who was best.

But if Venus was further down, say maybe 4 or 5, I'd say Venus would not be the better player. And Serena was probably the best in the world at the time.

But thats just what MAY be the case. There'd be other factors I suppose. :rolleyes:

(And hey, don't count out Hingis. She'll be the #1 instead! ;) )
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Grand Slam cup was not dropped for its credibility - it was dropped because it cost too much $$

Plus, it was an official sanctioned WTA event, so all those matches are counted in the head to heads.
VSFan1 - GS Cup wasn't a WTA event, it was an ITF one and was generally considered to be a glorified exhibition - if you count Serena's victory there you have to count Anna K's victory over Capriati over the winter in their exhibition.

If this happened to Serena, her #1 ranking would be as invalid as Capriati's is now. That is to say, not invalid.
when venus won her titles at the grand slam cup, on tv when they bring up "year to date" or "best of 1999", they included the grand slam cup. i remember seeing it on both the purple 'offcial' wta ones and also the ones done by the networks.

maybe if u look on the bio of venus and see if her title count counts her GS cup wins? I think that would sort it for me.

i am on the fence whether to say its hugely valid or not this second. just adding that little factoid.

but the other issue......

if serena won 3/7, i'd only count the ones in the last year, i.e. the ones that counted towards the ranking........ BUT...

I think all rankings are valid, cos they are the result of the system. is the system valid? i'd have to say yes to that as well.

I do sometimes think "hmm, she won a huge title, but venus/lindsay/jenn/martina/whoever wasn't there, so does it count?" - in the end, i have to say yes. its not their fault the others were not there, or that they lost early.

I am gonna say that Jen's rank is 100% valid, but that Venus is the better player. If you wanted to counmt GS only and ask who is better, I'd go with Venus, because although they both won 2/4 over the last year, Venus beat Jen when they met in those slams. Its not Jen's fault she didn't have to face venus in her wins, but the answer to that is that she should have beat her when they actually did meet.
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what is that saying about hypotheticals being the land of fools?

It is downright foolish to indulge in hypotheticals to prove a point!:rolleyes:
I can guarantee 100% that the event was counted by the WTA, because all players received an extra "tournament" in their ranking, but no ranking points.
A win is a win! Exhibition or not! Or do you imply that in an exhibition, top players just let their opponents win for fun?? Serena win over Venus counts as kournikova's over JCap!

And my opinion is that any player that wins 3 slams over the next 7, has a good credibility to become #1, losing or not systematically to Venus! We all know why Venus is not's called LIMITED SHEDULE! Under the actual WTA rules, to become #1 you need to play well but also a lot! #1 means that in the last 52 weeks you have THE best results overall. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU ARE THE BEST, UNFORTUNATELY! Serena would have done what WTA asks to be #1 ... so she would deserve it! As JCap deserves to be #1 right now! There's always ifs.......but nobody becomes #1 with ifs!
I was not implying that one slam is better than the other. A slam is a slam imo. I was saying that of the two players who've recently won at least 3 of the last 7 slams (Jenn/Venus), Venus is the better of the two.
First of all, who said that Jen's #1 is invalid?

If Serena had a 0-4 record against Venus and she acheived #1 I would feel exactly the same way. "Still not the best player, but deserves the spot based on points."
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