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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/02/05/i-thought-gay-rights-were-safe-now-i-know-i-was-wrong/



When my wife and I were married in 2016, we had the wedding of our dreams. We each wore wedding dresses; our fathers walked us down the aisle, one after the other; and we danced to Sam Cooke’s “We’re Having a Party” at the end of the night, in a circle surrounded by so many relatives and friends — including two nonagenarians. If not for the fact that there were two brides and zero grooms, it would have resembled any other heteronormative, middle-class American wedding in 2016.

That dream didn’t always seem possible. Before coming out in 2012, I struggled through months of therapy, preparing for the possibility of losing all connection with my Irish Catholic family. I prepared for the possibility that I would be viewed as an outsider, as someone different or perhaps even worse by friends, colleagues and strangers. I confessed nervously, first to my parents, brother and one trusted cousin, asking them to spread the word through layers of aunts and uncles and cousins. While it took some time for them to process the news — time that was truly painful — every single person in my family accepted us. They treated us normally; everyone acted like it was obvious that two girls, even two girls with long hair who wore makeup and high heels, could be in a relationship, and that was fine.

I knew then that we were lucky. I only realize now how extremely fortuitous the timing was. I came out to my family in the middle of the whirlwind sprint toward full LGBTQ rights that was sweeping the country during the Obama administration. Court cases affirming those rights dominated headlines; celebrities were coming out seemingly every day. It emboldened me to proclaim who I was and whom I was dating. The national climate allowed me to feel safe. It seemed like people were on my side. When we married in 2016, we were benefiting from the good luck of landing in the most accepting time for LGBTQ rights in history.

Now, a year and a half into our marriage, things have started to change.

A study recently released by GLAAD found that for the first time since the survey began in 2014, non-LGBTQ Americans are growing less comfortable with LGBTQ people. Fewer than half of straight adults (49 percent) said they were comfortable with LGBTQ people, a notable drop from last year (53 percent). Compared to last year’s survey, significantly more respondents said they would be uncomfortable with a family member, a child’s teacher, or their doctor who was LGBTQ. Meanwhile, 55 percent of LGBT individuals surveyed said they faced discrimination last year, a jump of 11 points over 2016.

The data represents a change from other polls conducted before 2017, which consistently showed that Americans were growing in their acceptance of LGBTQ people, including the latest Pew poll on the subject, from the spring of 2016.

GLAAD and the Harris Poll, which conducted the survey of 2,160 adult Americans, the majority of whom were non-LGBTQ, suggest the change has much to do with who is sitting in the White House. GLAAD President Sarah Kate Ellis said that President Trump’s policies, including his announced ban on trans military members and the appointment of Neil M. Gorsuch to the Supreme Court, were partially responsible. So was his rhetoric.

“This change can be seen as a dangerous repercussion in the tenor of discourse and experience over the last year,” Ellis wrote in the report. “2017 brought heightened rhetoric toward marginalized communities to the forefront of American culture.”

John Gerzema, chief executive of the Harris Poll, told The Washington Post last week that the results “suggest that Americans are taking advantage of an environment in which it has become more permissible to express discomfort with marginalized groups, even as people don’t want to be thought of as bigots.” He said that the number of respondents who gave the “PC response” that they support equal rights was the same as before — 79 percent — but that discomfort had increased. The report categorized the shift as an increase in “detached supporters.”

“We are surprised at the scale and the swiftness,” Ellis told USA Today, “but if you are LGBT and living in America, you are seeing this every day.”

When I first saw the headlines about the study, I was startled by the hard data showing that the equality I felt over the past few years and the progress that had been made could slip away. I never thought we could reverse course. Of course I had worried — however briefly — when Trump was elected. I worried that Vice President Pence might push an agenda that was dangerous for my life. I worried that Trump would rubber-stamp any legislation that anti-gay GOP members found enough votes to pass.

But I hadn’t worried about public opinion changing. I couldn’t have imagined that once you agreed that I was a person who was equal to you, and my relationship was equal to yours, you could then go back to thinking it wasn’t.

[---------- snipped ------------]
 

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Adrenaline junkie
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Safe? Hahaha..
WHat you call "Gay rights" as well as a lot of other western liberal things were forced on this world, because western liberalism was absolutely dominant in political , military and economic sense. West shoved those things into the international standards of rights even if most of the people in the world did not share those ideas.
Guess what, under Obama "absolutely dominant" slipped to "much less dominant", and will further slip in next decade to just "important" or even less.
And then you are going to have a major turn of tide in terms of what you call "rights". And it will greatly influence its perception in USA and European Emirates,
You'll be amazed.
 

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Safe? Hahaha..
WHat you call "Gay rights" as well as a lot of other western liberal things were forced on this world, because western liberalism was absolutely dominant in political , military and economic sense. West shoved those things into the international standards of rights even if most of the people in the world did not share those ideas.
Guess what, under Obama "absolutely dominant" slipped to "much less dominant", and will further slip in next decade to just "important" or even less.
And then you are going to have a major turn of tide in terms of what you call "rights". And it will greatly influence its perception in USA and European Emirates,
You'll be amazed.
So should gay people not be allowed to have protection under the law from discrimination and live equally among straight people :confused: Different cultures can do what they like, but it's about the human decency of respecting others.
 

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Adrenaline junkie
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Safe? Hahaha..
WHat you call "Gay rights" as well as a lot of other western liberal things were forced on this world, because western liberalism was absolutely dominant in political , military and economic sense. West shoved those things into the international standards of rights even if most of the people in the world did not share those ideas.
Guess what, under Obama "absolutely dominant" slipped to "much less dominant", and will further slip in next decade to just "important" or even less.
And then you are going to have a major turn of tide in terms of what you call "rights". And it will greatly influence its perception in USA and European Emirates,
You'll be amazed.
So should gay people not be allowed to have protection under the law from discrimination and live equally among straight people
Different cultures can do what they like, but it's about the human decency of respecting others.
"Discrimination" term is overused and abused by activists.
No one should be discriminated or oppressed for being a gay. But for many countries that's where it ends. And I predict that that middle ground interpretation might become dominant in the world in years to come.
 

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"Discrimination" term is overused and abused by activists.
No one should be discriminated or oppressed for being a gay. But for many countries that's where it ends. And I predict that that middle ground interpretation might become dominant in the world in years to come.
So what’s wrong with Russia, then?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Safe? Hahaha..
WHat you call "Gay rights" as well as a lot of other western liberal things were forced on this world, because western liberalism was absolutely dominant in political , military and economic sense. West shoved those things into the international standards of rights even if most of the people in the world did not share those ideas.
Guess what, under Obama "absolutely dominant" slipped to "much less dominant", and will further slip in next decade to just "important" or even less.
And then you are going to have a major turn of tide in terms of what you call "rights". And it will greatly influence its perception in USA and European Emirates,
You'll be amazed.
- Maybe if you'd read you'd have realized the article is about rights in the US.
- Nice that you find it amusing that people, any people, may once again face increasing marginalization, oppression and brutality. SMH


BTW "Western liberalism" has always been the foundation of values and politics in the West.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
"Discrimination" term is overused and abused by activists.
No one should be discriminated or oppressed for being a gay. But for many countries that's where it ends. And I predict that that middle ground interpretation might become dominant in the world in years to come.
:confused: Can you explain more clearly what you mean.
 

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Trainwreck
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Looks like she praises her Irish Catholic conservative family at first by saying they all accepted her as gay in the end and then throws them under the bus by playing right into the narrative of Trump-voters (another word for conservative basically) all being scary bigots missing half their teeth or something within a few sentences :spit:. I grew up in a pretty fundamentalist Christian household too, and it'll never be perfect, some of them are uncomfortable with the small part of my being that is sexuality-concerned. But I know from experience (and she appears to as well) that not being comfortable with that, and being conservative in general, does not make them big bad scary people.

Just IMO, this is an attempt at political activism ahead of a particularly interesting mid-terms. I expect a ton more bits like this over this year (should be fun :yawn:). Gay rights are safe. The same percentage of people surveyed in favour of equal rights as before. Anything beyond that is thought-policing.

And another thing, she starts the article off about gay rights and then veers off into trans issues. Now, trans people can have their opinions, but as an individual homosexual male (I'm decidedly not 'LGBTQ' - these are all very different groups with different issues and interests) I don't feel particularly invested in that part of things. But some (I know not all) especially activistic trans people have opinions related to some aspects of freedom of speech and also, crucially, to do with children. These are particularly touchy subjects to I think most people that they have a right to be concerned with (and again, things like pronouns and legally recognizing children as gay have never been part of a gay struggle) and so I wonder, regardless of my own opinion of those things, if there's a decrease in comfortableness with the broad LGBTQ that those things could be at least part of the cause. Since the 'T' are having their turn the most right now, it would to me make sense.
 

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Trainwreck
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"Discrimination" term is overused and abused by activists.
No one should be discriminated or oppressed for being a gay. But for many countries that's where it ends. And I predict that that middle ground interpretation might become dominant in the world in years to come.
Years ago I rowed with you over Russia. I still wouldn't choose as a gay person to live there, but one thing I would remember now that kind of got lost on me in my (at least I think :eek:h:) less-wise days is that Russia's law 'officially' is related to just children. Even though I still find that stupid (children cannot be converted to gay), the vast majority of gay men in the Western world kind of abide by that law 'by default' anyway. Meaning, most gay men have their sex in their private residences, communicate with each other mostly in private via social media and may have a few designated public places to gather at (even Moscow and St. Petersburg have that, or so I read). The Russia law basically just officially enshrines how most gay people (and all people in terms of private sex life) live anyway.

Again I really disagree with the extent of the law but I have to get real on at least that.
 

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My feeling is that the percentage change is quite possible a result of greater publicity and awareness of issues surrounding the LGBTQ movement. It's only within the past two years that there has been a steady push, and with that, you will get more responders who become aware of these issues and you will naturally capture a greater proportion who were uneasy about it but didn't respond previously for lack of contact, similarly to how suddenly you are getting more reported incidences of sexual harassment and abuse in the past decade. Trump's policies may have an impact, but I tend to feel responses largely reflect personal sentiment. The time scale is also rather small, give another 2-3 years, even 5 years.
 

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Adrenaline junkie
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"Discrimination" term is overused and abused by activists.
No one should be discriminated or oppressed for being a gay. But for many countries that's where it ends. And I predict that that middle ground interpretation might become dominant in the world in years to come.
Years ago I rowed with you over Russia. I still wouldn't choose as a gay person to live there, but one thing I would remember now that kind of got lost on me in my (at least I think
) less-wise days is that Russia's law 'officially' is related to just children. Even though I still find that stupid (children cannot be converted to gay), the vast majority of gay men in the Western world kind of abide by that law 'by default' anyway. Meaning, most gay men have their sex in their private residences, communicate with each other mostly in private via social media and may have a few designated public places to gather at (even Moscow and St. Petersburg have that, or so I read). The Russia law basically just officially enshrines how most gay people (and all people in terms of private sex life) live anyway.

Again I really disagree with the extent of the law but I have to get real on at least that.
You know what were the worst years for gays in Russia? 13-15. When, essentially after that law was created, the western politicians used it as a pretext for an attack on Russia and on coming Olympics. Of course, those politicians had their own agenda in mind, having nothing to do with gays. And of course they unleashed their tools called rights activists to wage the campaign against Russia, and Russian gays ended up the worst, because they become associated -
by general folk - with that anti-Russian campaign and they had very hard in that bs. And of course, as soon as Olympics ended, no one in West would care about Russian gays anymore, and that was a blessing - all that crap quickly subsided, and things quickly went back to relative normal.
 

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You know what were the worst years for gays in Russia? 13-15. When, essentially after that law was created, the western politicians used it as a pretext for an attack on Russia and on coming Olympics. Of course, those politicians had their own agenda in mind, having nothing to do with gays. And of course they unleashed their tools called rights activists to wage the campaign against Russia, and Russian gays ended up the worst, because they become associated -
by general folk - with that anti-Russian campaign and they had very hard in that bs. And of course, as soon as Olympics ended, no one in West would care about Russian gays anymore, and that was a blessing - all that crap quickly subsided, and things quickly went back to relative normal.
What audience are you trying to reach with this shit?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
My feeling is that the percentage change is quite possible a result of greater publicity and awareness of issues surrounding the LGBTQ movement. It's only within the past two years that there has been a steady push, and with that, you will get more responders who become aware of these issues and you will naturally capture a greater proportion who were uneasy about it but didn't respond previously for lack of contact, similarly to how suddenly you are getting more reported incidences of sexual harassment and abuse in the past decade. Trump's policies may have an impact, but I tend to feel responses largely reflect personal sentiment. The time scale is also rather small, give another 2-3 years, even 5 years.
A valid point. I'd say it's a combination of both. But in the US, the past two years have been by far the quietest on those issues in a decade. Plus Trump has made it okay to have those sentiments. So many people who may have previously started rethinking their antipathy will now embrace it whole wholeheartedly
 

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You know what were the worst years for gays in Russia? 13-15. When, essentially after that law was created, the western politicians used it as a pretext for an attack on Russia and on coming Olympics. Of course, those politicians had their own agenda in mind, having nothing to do with gays. And of course they unleashed their tools called rights activists to wage the campaign against Russia, and Russian gays ended up the worst, because they become associated -
by general folk - with that anti-Russian campaign and they had very hard in that bs. And of course, as soon as Olympics ended, no one in West would care about Russian gays anymore, and that was a blessing - all that crap quickly subsided, and things quickly went back to relative normal.
What audience are you trying to reach with this shit?
Certainly not to Soros-paid demfaschist trolls. :)
 

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