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I have lost all respect for Pam Shriver and Billie Jean King

2607 Views 60 Replies 38 Participants Last post by  tenn_ace, 
A
I'm sorry but I just read this article of Pam Shriver's and was appalled!

Some of her comments are

"Hingis is going to be devastated and demoralized after once again failing to close out the final of a Grand Slam. It's going to be the biggest tennis hangover of all time. The only other person who suffered a defeat close to this one was Jana Novotna in the 1993 final at Wimbledon against Steffi Graf. Novotna was up two breaks in the third, but she never even got to championship point -- nothing like letting four championship points slip away.

Hingis is supposed to play Tokyo next week, but you have to grieve after a match like this. You don't just lose it, get up in the morning and move on. This is the most devastating thing that's happened to her. What she's feeling now is grief."

**I am no big Hingis Fan, far from it, but Pam's statements have enraged me, Firstly how does Pam know what Martina is feeling now? Why should Martina dwell on all the negatives and could've beens, what a stupid thing to say! The best thing for Martina is to draw positives from her trip to Australia after surgery, and she has done that, she's said that in her speech she was happy about her results. Most of all she has showed she is a true champion and put this near miss behind her and moved on to the next tournament in her comeback.

I'm shocked Pam Shriver said that stuff. Maybe she is thinking about her missed opportunities in losing her slam final and never been able to mentally hold it together to get back to another Grand Slam final.

This article is an INSULT to Martina. Martina has always had a good head and she will overcome her disappointment very quickly and estutely. She's not one to dwell on missed opportunities. She isn't a player that dwells on the negatives. As she said in her speech, while she was disappointed, she was happy that she had exceeded her expectations with her comeback and could draw a lot of positives that she did so well and got so close to taking the title.. To win both Sydney titles, GS Doubles and then reach a Grand Slam singles final after 4 months off from surgery is remarkable and she can see this. Its sad that she got that close but to do what she did in those 3 weeks was remarkable. Hingis acknowledged all this in her speech which obviously Shriver never listened too.

I'm sorry but I am no longer a fan of Billie Jean King either. Both former players have disappointed me with their commentary/articles on the final due to their bias. I don't have a problem with commentators having their favourites. I just find it very unprofessional when they show profound bias in their work. e.g Billie Jean King was commentating, and everytime Capriati questioned a call BJK would make a comment like, Yes, Capriati is right, that ball was out, even when the TV showed a close up as in, and she also did it to Hingis, she hit a winner which was called out, the close up replay showed it clearly as in and yet BJK commended the umpire saying they had made the right decision and that it was out. I mean BJK was just making a fool of herself, don't think Channel 7 will ask her to commentate again.
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L
There There There AUSBOY. U r not the only one feeling it. I have lost all respect for Pam Shrover after the Ozzie Open. If i have to listen to her one more time i swear i will ring ESPN And tell them to get someone else. Steffis looking for a job-
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M
I think it's a compliment to Hingis actually.

Some people are saying well Jen was just the better player.

in fact Martina was the better player and she choked, plain and simple. If she's not unhappy about that, well bully for her, but she's never gonna win another major again with that attitude.
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P
I couldnt disagree more.


Firstly, Pam has been a pro tennis player, and knows how some defeats 'hurt' more than others..

yes, martina exceeded her expectations, yes Martina can draw ona lot of positives...

But Pam is CORRECT - You dont lose a slam final (after sucha drought) after winning by 1 set and 4-0, and jsut move on without any after effect!!!

Pam was being concerned for Hingis, not viciously attaking her!!

And BJK was the BEST commentator EVER!!!

I agreed with ALL the replays they showed and BJK's opinion on whether it was out or in...

"Martina has always had a good head"??? Umm, hate to rain on your parade, but SHE HAS TROUBLE CLOSING MATCHES OUT!!

FO 99 ring a bell?? Where was her head that day???

You are a loyal fan who is wayyyyy oversensitive.

There was nothing insulting in what Pam or BJK said.
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A
Have a reality check Philbo..go rant about steffi, coz you are way of the mark on this on.
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T
BJK earns my respect in so many ways but I was VERY TROUBLED by her shouting during the Fed Cup and thought she was disrespectful to the Spaniards when I saw that on TV. Also I saw her obvious total lack of appreciation when Martina beat Monica at the Chase 2000 in an UNBELIEVABLE match by both ladies. When Martina came over to hug her mother Melanie and had tears in her eyes BJK just turned her head and looked sour. She barely even clapped. She is sooo pro-American that it borders on nationalism which is an ugly thing. I also thought she was VERY RUDE to Lisa Raymond when she did not pick her for the Olympics Doubles and then the Williams sisters turned her down for Fed Cup and she was too proud to ask Lisa to play. She made an ass out of herself. And also I find her totallly CHILDISH that she was upset supposedly with Martina Navratilova for playing Wimbledon again and possibly threatening her precious record there. How dare Martina keep playing! Why couldn't Martina just let herself go like Billie Jean?
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P
Adrian - Go have a reality check. period.
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B
Martina played the best tennis at the AO from Round 1 all up to the second set of the Final. Then for what ever reason, she lowered the level of her game. Now she's sits on a three-year drought. If it were me, I'd be dying. Hingis is only human, and she must be dying over it too. Pam Shriver is absolutely right in what she's saying.

Hopefully Hingis will take this bitter defeat as motivation for the rest of the Grand Slams this year.
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R
Pam is an idiot.
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D
Is that what bothers you, or the fact that they are complimentary of Monica?

Would you care to hazard another "guess" as to how long it will take Monica to return to the top 8?
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T
How did Monica get into this topic?

I think Pam was right. Hingis is saying that she is ok after Oz, but if every one of her fans is dwelling on the loss, it has to still be way in the front of Martina's mind. and the media will remind her once again every time that she plays Capriati and just wait until the 2003 Oz, the tapes of that loss will run for two weeks.
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-Sonic-
Some of the things I've read that BJK supposedly said were more than enough to lose her a commentating job.

Huge difference between constructive criticism and just outright bitching/verbally destroying about someone's game... and from what I know of BJK of late its all she's been doing.... i'm gonna put it down to jealousy and immaturity - "how dare a non american fed cup player hit a winner" etc.
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SM
Pam tried to dramatise the article to make it more interesting and readable , andi do think that lots of it is overexaggerated...

its true Martina and whoever lost in such a way will be affected the next time they're in a big match, most likely...but with Hingis im sure if she can can pull a win at Tokyo will be over it...'period'!

Marti's a champ. , i dont think shell be totally 'demoralized' and 'devastated'. If anything shell be more determined to win next time....on to the f.o :)

I :hearts: BJK's commentary btw ;)!..
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R
Bias is one thing(I didn't see King's commentary). I've no comment there, and most announcers have at last some bias.


What is beyond argument is how devastating a loss like this is-and Pam DOES know that from experience. Hingis, or whoever,doesn't give a rats behind or two thoughts about losing in Tokyo or Dubai, or name your city. It's the slams that count, and those who think otherwise are fools, clueless, or blinded by reading too much WTA propaganda:angel:


Methinks it's harder to fool Pam and other players(after all, they've been there) than the likes of most of us who've only watched rather than played slams:)


What devastated Mauresmo? The French. Go ask her. She's still getting over that.

Read Venus Envy and see how happy Venus was losing the 1999 US Open and seeing her sister win it.

Capriati had nightmares about losing the 1991 US Open semis to Monica for years.

Hingis hasn't been the same to many watchers of the game since the 99 French final. I hope she recovers, but Pam was correct in what she wrote. Some may not like her "bias' against Hingis, but give Shriver this: She said after match point #1 that Hingis had better go for it on the next one or she might not win. Think I'll start calling her Pammy "the Prophet".
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T
What did BJK say???

Pam's words seem to me to be nothing more than 'harsh truths'. Only Melanie and Martina will truly know how the AO final has affected Martina, and will continue to effect her. Martina was _shit_scared_ on those first match points you could see it in her face, and that was before the real heat exhaustion set in. For me, that fear is going to take a while to heal.

We won't really know until Martina's in a similar position again. The thing about this loss (as with 99 loss to Graf) is that she was in a winning position. In her other AO finals she never ever looked a likely winner, either against Davenport or Capriati.
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A
Well if Ausboy is a hingis fan, then he has kept it well hidden..thats 1.

Pam hates martina, thats a fact.

BJK did call every ball of Capriati's in, when the whole world could see they were out.

BJK did call every Hingis ball out, when at least 4 of the disputed calls were clearly in.

Ausboy has a very strong case.

Hingis was clearly outplayed in her previous 4 finals, this time she had the chances and blew them, as her mother said "You had the chances this time, make sure you take them next time"..watch out for a tennis player that is slowly but surely beginning to believe again.

On another point that is directed at another poster and no one else.

when you stop being so vitriolic to other posters thoughts, then I may treat yours with more then a grain of salt
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G
I didn't see either match, so I can't really comment.

treufreund, I completely agree with *everything* you've said about BJK, her behaviour on Fed Cup (in 1996, 1998 and 2000 specially) is too low to even comment on it properly, and what she did to Lisa Raymond! she couldn't become much smaller as a person, could she?. Here, have a drink with me, we can moan and bitch over BJK together :D ;)
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M
YOU CAN'T PLEASE EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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T
I agree that BJK may have shown some bias to Jen on some points, but as for her overall commentary during the 2 weeks, I think it was fantastic.

There has been positive feedback, and Channel 7 will most definately hire her back next year...it was refreshing to hear something different and not be subjected to Pam like the last few years.
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A
Billie Jean is a good friend and fan of Australia, so no grudges against her, but I did find her commentating biased whenever an American was involved. I found it strange listening to her going on about "Jen this...Jen that" in the final, semis and quarters. She was having an orgasm watching Monica and Venus do battle. Martina just happened to be the opponent in the final where an American was present. If it had been any other non-American in the final besides Hingis, BJK's bias would've still been there. You can't blame her for being a little patriotic. The Australian male commentators and the McEnroe brothers do it all the time. And Jim Courier is on his knees every time he is commentating a Jan-Michael Gambill or Andy Roddick match. The only thing missing is their cock in his mouth.

As for Pam, like I've said elsewhere, I had no idea that she had so much angst with Martina Hingis. She always seemed to speak positively about her in past Australian Open commentating gigs for Aussie TV. I'll take the article as her opinion. Yes, it's true that she knows a little something about tennis and losing big finals, but she can't possibly know about it from more than her personal perspective. She imagines feeling grief. She wasn't playing. Like her, I was merely watching it too. I felt grief. Martina was playing it. I have no idea how she really feels. She did cry, but it could've been for lots of reasons - losing a close one, feeling tired, feeling helpless. We'll never know. It's Pam's opinion. She may be right or she may be wrong. It's no big deal, IMO. Those who agree with her will agree with her. Those who don't will laugh in her face. She's open to that.
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