Tennis Forum banner

21 - 40 of 47 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,325 Posts
Discussion Starter #21
Shouldn't you then give the umpire credit for getting the first part right? The umpire could have said the call wasn't late and it wouldn't have been a blatant error.
That was ok, but to give credit no, because she wasn't paying attention either, she then asked the linesman on Tig's side who wasn't paying attention either and also because of this rule, which tbh I'm not completely sure it could be applied here, but it is in the rulebook:






She sounds a bit like Sorana during her infamous complaints
With the exception that this one was a valid one, unlike some of Sorana's.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,571 Posts
It's natural for the umpire to stop following the ball after an out call.

Best solution would be to allow the umpire to watch a replay on their iPad.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,036 Posts
Cheater Yafan :mad: :mad:
What a muppet you are...it was umpire's decision there,it was tough to say was it late or not..specially for players. Twig bitc*ing was funny and completely crazy,should have given warning tbh(even I like both players).also ,that overreactions after winning point lol...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37,573 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,325 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
What a muppet you are...it was umpire's decision there,it was tough to say was it late or not..specially for players. Twig bitc*ing was funny and completely crazy,should have given warning tbh(even I like both players).also ,that overreactions after winning point lol...
You didn't understand the situation either.

Read the 2nd tweet and listen to the videos.

Linesman called out AFTER Wang hit the ball. Tig challenged, it was IN, but apparently nor the umpire, nor the linesman saw that afterwards, the ball hit by Wang landed ONE metre behind the baseline where Tig was so the umpire (wrongly) decided to replay the point...


@Haihui was 99.99% referring to the fact that Yafan didn't admit that her ball went out afterwards, but most likely nobody would have done that at that point tbh.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,036 Posts
You didn't understand the situation either.

Read the 2nd tweet and listen to the videos.

Linesman called out AFTER Wang hit the ball. Tig challenged, it was IN, but apparently nor the umpire, nor the linesman saw that afterwards, the ball hit by Wang landed ONE metre behind the baseline where Tig was so the umpire (wrongly) decided to replay the point...


@Haihui was 99.99% referring to the fact that Yafan didn't admit that her ball went out afterwards, but most likely nobody would have done that at that point tbh.
Hmm did they asked Wang anything? Because I didnt heard it... even though ,this decision has nothing to do with Yafan's ball ,so didnt need to say anything on her own .It is all about was that late call or not ,so... stop trying to make a point.

Haihui is irrelevant anyway...remember his constant rants on itf threads last yr about one player who ,did nothing wrong/is likeable from 99 percent of people.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,325 Posts
Discussion Starter #32
It is all about was that late call or not ,so... stop trying to make a point.
It's not about that dude... Watch the 2nd video until you figure it out and look especially at the umpire, try to hear what she says and look at when SHE ASKS THE LINESMAN ON TIG'S SIDE!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,036 Posts
It's not about that dude... Watch the 2nd video until you figure it out and look especially at the umpire, try to hear what she says and look at when SHE ASKS THE LINESMAN ON TIG'S SIDE!
Hmm its tough to hear clearly anything from umpire.I only see and hear umpire talking with supervisor and tig while Tig insisting on yafan's ball .... gotta say IF that was case than it was communication problem. Was it problem for umpire to invite Yafan and say:" it was late call ,hawkeye says her ball was in. Where your ball ended?" Umpire was very quiet when talking,doubt Yafan heared anything and what was the case here(late call or not/ yafan's ball). Tig was extending grunts towards end and during that point anyhow(and might have influenced on Wang -thinking it is linesperson )...so .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,534 Posts
For me, a massive mistake has to be a rare one, one that most umpires are able to avoid.

This particular "memory error" happens a lot and I don't consider this one a huge mistake- it's a poor mistake but not a massive one, it's actually a fairly common mistake because many, many umpires cannot remember whether the call came before or after a shot, or whether the next shot was in or out. It requires an above average memory to keep all that in short term memory for around 30 seconds under pressure and that is not an ability which your average umpire has. Some are able to do it, others are not.

So, if in doubt, replay the point. I find a replay is a somewhat acceptable result when the referee cannot remember exactly when the call came or if the next shot was in or out, and the ref has no access to video replay.

Of course if they had access to instant replay or third umpire (video ref) then these things could be solved, but this is not a really bad decision, it's a mistake of course but there have been much worse.

If you want to see a much worse, but similar decision, look at the one between Kaia Kanepi and Yanina Wickmayer in the USO 2010.

It's blurry, but Yanina's shot is called out and then corrected by the line judge. Meanwhile, Kaia hits the next shot in the court, and Yanina hits the next shot out.

However, because Kaia hit the next ball in the court, surely it's a replay right? But the umpire (Louise Engzell) somehow can't remember at all and thinks Kaia missed the next shot, and awards the point to Yanina telling Kaia it was a late call which didn't affect her shot. Right... it didn't affect her shot, but Kaia hit the ball in! That's why I find a replay an acceptable result, because otherwise umpires try to pretend they can remember and make up some bull, better to say I just can't remember so replay the point, until they give them video replay.

Ideally video replay should be implemented, but until then, I think about it like this. If a challenge comes in, the umpire has to try to recall when the call came, if the next shot was in or not. If he or she cannot remember these details, then they will have to revert to a replay, if the shot turns out to be in. If they can remember, then they are able to award the point.

And if you want to see the worst line call I've ever seen, take a look at this. I know it's a men's challenger match, but the linesperson calls a serve which is 2 or 3 feet in, and the umpire who apparently didn't see anything just says "I think it's out for sure, I didn't get a good look at it." Lol. Now this is the kind of call that should never happen. If you've got a bad memory but at least you can see line calls, then well, that's a bit of a problem for a ref, but if you can't tell when a ball is 2 feet in... you should not be refereeing a tennis match. Linesperson there was equally blind. It was so far in I feel the opponent should have admitted it although I admit he is not technically obliged to. I mean, just watching it makes me dislike the opponent for not owning up to the call, and I'm glad it's Jung and not him who has started to break through to the next level.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,325 Posts
Discussion Starter #36
For me, a massive mistake has to be a rare one, one that most umpires are able to avoid.]
It's not an incredibly rare one indeed, but not a common one either. Personally I see this kind of error only like 2-3 times a year at most and I watch a lot of tennis (except for 2019 when I didn't watch a whole lot because of personal stuff).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,133 Posts
For me, a massive mistake has to be a rare one, one that most umpires are able to avoid.

This particular "memory error" happens a lot and I don't consider this one a huge mistake- it's a poor mistake but not a massive one, it's actually a fairly common mistake because many, many umpires cannot remember whether the call came before or after a shot, or whether the next shot was in or out. It requires an above average memory to keep all that in short term memory for around 30 seconds under pressure and that is not an ability which your average umpire has. Some are able to do it, others are not.

So, if in doubt, replay the point. I find a replay is a somewhat acceptable result when the referee cannot remember exactly when the call came or if the next shot was in or out, and the ref has no access to video replay.

Of course if they had access to instant replay or third umpire (video ref) then these things could be solved, but this is not a really bad decision, it's a mistake of course but there have been much worse.

If you want to see a much worse, but similar decision, look at the one between Kaia Kanepi and Yanina Wickmayer in the USO 2010.

It's blurry, but Yanina's shot is called out and then corrected by the line judge. Meanwhile, Kaia hits the next shot in the court, and Yanina hits the next shot out.

However, because Kaia hit the next ball in the court, surely it's a replay right? But the umpire (Louise Engzell) somehow can't remember at all and thinks Kaia missed the next shot, and awards the point to Yanina telling Kaia it was a late call which didn't affect her shot. Right... it didn't affect her shot, but Kaia hit the ball in! That's why I find a replay an acceptable result, because otherwise umpires try to pretend they can remember and make up some bull, better to say I just can't remember so replay the point, until they give them video replay.

Ideally video replay should be implemented, but until then, I think about it like this. If a challenge comes in, the umpire has to try to recall when the call came, if the next shot was in or not. If he or she cannot remember these details, then they will have to revert to a replay, if the shot turns out to be in. If they can remember, then they are able to award the point.

And if you want to see the worst line call I've ever seen, take a look at this. I know it's a men's challenger match, but the linesperson calls a serve which is 2 or 3 feet in, and the umpire who apparently didn't see anything just says "I think it's out for sure, I didn't get a good look at it." Lol. Now this is the kind of call that should never happen. If you've got a bad memory but at least you can see line calls, then well, that's a bit of a problem for a ref, but if you can't tell when a ball is 2 feet in... you should not be refereeing a tennis match. Linesperson there was equally blind. It was so far in I feel the opponent should have admitted it although I admit he is not technically obliged to. I mean, just watching it makes me dislike the opponent for not owning up to the call, and I'm glad it's Jung and not him who has started to break through to the next level.

This one's pretty bad (also in a Wickmayer match):
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,517 Posts
Weird point. Wang looked like she didn't exactly hit the ball. I know she was in defensive position but the way she hit the ball was as if she surrendered the pt - perhaps pre-empting it to be out.

In that case, it would be rather akin to this scenario (though Nadal's situation more blatant):


The timing of the call though is very difficult for the umpire. I couldn't see clearly on the video but the call did come a little after the shot, but not by a long margin that it is clear to the umpire. But it really does seem as if Wang didn't play as if the point was live (And she might have landed it in otherwise).

It's a tough, tough call. Personally there are too many factors to really say what was right or wrong. Replay was the most sensible option in view of this, though I can understand people also saying Wang should have landed her shot in to be safe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,363 Posts
Considering the moment it happened, this might have been a huge mistake (would Wang won the match).
Could be even worse if that would happen on a match point and afterwords the potential winner would have lost the match.

This laps of short term memory are among the details that are making the difference between a golden badge (or a pretty good) umpire and an unexperienced/unskilled one.

We shouldn't blame here this umpire for bias; it's just the lady chosed the wrong profession and shall look for something else. In China or SE Asia MMs, ok, I agree this may happen more than once... Still that has to be unacceptable during big tournaments.
 
21 - 40 of 47 Posts
Top