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#### Lazyking

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I've always wondered this and still not sure. When a player hits a shot out or into the net when they're in a ready position?

Enlighten me

#### edificio

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It's subjective. As with many things.

#### LightWarrior

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Thanks for this thread. Obviously the UE stats are very undervalued for these Olympics. The UE/forced error ratio is always subjective. They seem about right at GS but undervalued at WTA tournaments.

#### Edinboro

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This is a fantastic question and one I have always wondered myself. An error is an error regardless. When I play top spin 4 I'll only have about 10 UEs in the match summary when I know for a fact Ive hit up to 50-60 errors.

#### LightWarrior

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This is a fantastic question and one I have always wondered myself. An error is an error regardless. When I play top spin 4 I'll only have about 10 UEs in the match summary when I know for a fact Ive hit up to 50-60 errors.
That's because UE and forced errors are not the same. The problem is how to assess, where to draw the line between a UE and FE.

#### Vikapower

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It's at the discretion of the statistician. In Wimbledon the unforced count is extremely low (they're greedy) in favor of the forced error -- Australian Open has the most solid stable method of calculating winners, forced and unforced errors.

The worst count goes to Stuttgart who inflates almost each winning shots as winners (their hands are extremely heavy in that department), even if a Player A would touch the ball on a fast long incoming one for example but it went in the stands, a tournament like Stuttgart would count it as a clean winner for Player B. Australian Open and Wimbledon as a forced error.

If you use the Australian Open method of calculating these, you can have amazing surprises in so called amazing matches.

#### Petkorazzi

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Actually, I agree with WTA stats more... Was it RG or Wimb that barely had anyone with a negative ratio? :spit:

#### The Reff

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This is a fantastic question and one I have always wondered myself. An error is an error regardless. When I play top spin 4 I'll only have about 10 UEs in the match summary when I know for a fact Ive hit up to 50-60 errors.
You may very possibly have 40-50 forced errors then, as errors come in the two varieties.

#### Achernar

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Thanks for this thread. Obviously the UE stats are very undervalued for these Olympics. The UE/forced error ratio is always subjective. They seem about right at GS but undervalued at WTA tournaments.
I would say that the unforced errors are credible in three Grand Slams and in most of the other tournaments. I lost all confidence in Wimbledon last year. Most matches were ending with stats like 40 winners and 15 UE when it was clear that both players were playing like s**t. Since the Olympics are playing in Wimbledon, I'm afraid they count the stats in the same fashion

To answer to question, I agree its subjective. However, some standards, formal or informal, should be implemented. Usually, when a player is on a defensive movement, under pressure by her opponent, we talk about a "forced error". On the other hand, if the player is trying to hit a winner and misses, its an unforced error.

For example, if your opponent hits an angle shot, very close to the line, forcing you to run after it, and the only thing you can do is extending your arm, barely reaching the ball and you hit it wide because you were unbalanced and on the run, its a "forced error". If you're standing in the middle of the court, and you're trying to "punish" a short ball by hitting it at full power, missing the court by ten feet, its an unforced error.

It becomes subjective when, for example, you try to hit a winner right on your opponent's service. You're under pressure, the ball being very fast, but nobody forces you to try such a risky shot. It's your strategy.

#### Lazyking

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Personally, when I'm watching a match, I consider an unforced error one that either goes into the net or wide/long of the base/sideline when the player is at a ready stance to hit the ball. I don't really consider on run striking to be unforced errors. Nor UE's on ROS

Just wish it was easier to define cause I find that you can't just go by the number of UE's. That you really have to watch the match to know.

#### LightWarrior

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Personally, when I'm watching a match, I consider an unforced error one that either goes into the net or wide/long of the base/sideline when the player is at a ready stance to hit the ball. I don't really consider on run striking to be unforced errors. Nor UE's on ROS

Just wish it was easier to define cause I find that you can't just go by the number of UE's. That you really have to watch the match to know.
It's impossible to define. That's why the people doing the stats should be very good tennis analysts who understand the game.

#### fluffyelloballz

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I would say that the unforced errors are credible in three Grand Slams and in most of the other tournaments. I lost all confidence in Wimbledon last year. Most matches were ending with stats like 40 winners and 15 UE when it was clear that both players were playing like s**t. Since the Olympics are playing in Wimbledon, I'm afraid they count the stats in the same fashion

To answer to question, I agree its subjective. However, some standards, formal or informal, should be implemented. Usually, when a player is on a defensive movement, under pressure by her opponent, we talk about a "forced error". On the other hand, if the player is trying to hit a winner and misses, its an unforced error.

For example, if your opponent hits an angle shot, very close to the line, forcing you to run after it, and the only thing you can do is extending your arm, barely reaching the ball and you hit it wide because you were unbalanced and on the run, its a "forced error". If you're standing in the middle of the court, and you're trying to "punish" a short ball by hitting it at full power, missing the court by ten feet, its an unforced error.

It becomes subjective when, for example, you try to hit a winner right on your opponent's service. You're under pressure, the ball being very fast, but nobody forces you to try such a risky shot. It's your strategy.
This!
Could not have put it better.
One of the things I really dislike about the game now is watching the players hit a ball they have enough time and are in the right position to hit and then they send it long..

· La Divina Assoluta
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By watching a Li Na match.

#### JeMa

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Wouldn't you put an unreturnable serve into the forced error category. Double fault is an unforced error also.

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obviously all the DF's and missed sitters from the middle of the court count as UE's...after that it becomes trickier. Some players are pretty good at hitting winners on the run, others not so much, but one could assume that any missed defensive shot could be considered as a forced error. At the end of the day it's all subjective and you have to watch the match to trully understand the quality of it anyway

#### Achernar

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Wouldn't you put an unreturnable serve into the forced error category. Double fault is an unforced error also.
Absolutely :yeah:

#### Israel

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Well when you have an easy shot and you miss it it's an UE, when someone punches a bomb into the corner and you put it down at the net it's a forced error.
Not sure who counts them but it's not too complicated...

#### Achernar

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Since the "forced errors" aren't officially recorded, here's how you count them.

Let's say the player X wins a total of 100 points in the whole match. We know she hits 30 winners. And her opponent has produced 40 "unforced errors". Since our player has accumulated 100 points, 30 of them being due to her winners and 40 being due to the unforced errors from her opponent, there's still 30 points we need to explain. Those are the forced errors. I know it's not worded very well, but some users could find it useful.

Unfortunately, a lot of fans totally fail to recognize the forced errors. The best counter punchers, defensive players and strategic players are producing a lot more of them than the power players (at least in proportion to their clean winners). And they receive no credit for them. Yet, when a player manages to keep her opponent on the run and out of balance for about ten shots, until she hits the ball off the court, it deserves recognition. It's not the same skill than hitting clean winner, but it's sometimes as effective and it's less risky.

People here still laugh at Clijsters when she beats Cornet while hitting something like five winners and 50 unforced errors. However, in that match, Clijsters had also produced 50 forced errors against the French player. It is virtually impossible to "read" a match without taking into account the forced errors.

#### Lazyking

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^i think what I'm getting is you can't go by the scoresheet. unforturnely, the stats for matches are really lacking. Very few places have the match stats available, and rarely do they have unforced errors.

Tennis is too complicated to go off serve % and Break points.

#### aloeball

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One of the commentators pointed an interesting thing out a few years ago - sometimes they certain errors as forced rather than unforced. This is because they don't take into fact the situation, tightness of the match, intimidation factor, pressure etc. It really is subjective.

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