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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Similarly, to say that Martina Hingis was a "transitional" player between Graf and Venus Williams ignores the fact that, for all you can prove from results so far, it is not Hingis but Venus who is transitional: Venus was the transitional player between Hingis's falling apart with injuries and the rise to the top of Serena Williams.
OUCH! Well, Venus fans tend to put down Martina by saying that she dominated when there was no competition, Graf was struggling with injuries, Venus still hasn't come into her own. Well, I'd like to hear your opinion on that quote from the Bob Larson article.
 

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He can probably have a point in that, since it was Serena who won first. Didn´t really think about it that way.
 

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"And so I wake in the morning and step outside
And I take a deep breath and I get real high
And I, scream from the top of my lungs, WHAT's GOING ON?!"

that's what how feel about this board right now;)
it seems like a curse always when I feel bad people start about greatest ever threads and I promise not again and I end up in it anyway for days, days and days;)
 
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Well, let's see how many Williams fans Selesrules can railroad into a fight today. :)
 

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irma said:
"And so I wake in the morning and step outside
And I take a deep breath and I get real high
And I, scream from the top of my lungs, WHAT's GOING ON?!"
That's got to be one of the most appropriate quotes in the history of all message boards everywhere.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Pureracket said:
Well, let's see how many Williams fans Selesrules can railroad into a fight today. :)
:angel:

The thing is, with this thread it's a win-win situation for me:

If the Venus fans are annoyed and debate, I would have caused what I want :D

BUT, if they ignore the thread, it means that the Venus fans have no defense because the quote is right :D

BRILLIANT! :devil:
 

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selesrules said:
:angel:

The thing is, with this thread it's a win-win situation for me:

If the Venus fans are annoyed and debate, I would have caused what I want :D

BUT, if they ignore the thread, it means that the Venus fans have no defense because the quote is right :D

BRILLIANT! :devil:
That comment definately is true. Hingis DOMINATED. Venus dominated summer 2001/2002. Hingis was dominating for years and was CONSISTENT.
 

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I truthfully think any player who wins four grand slams is more than a transitional player.

Venus has accomplished a lot, there is no denying that.

That Martina accomplished a lot and actually, did more than Venus has so far, is not even open to debate.

I think the real problem here is trying to establish "eras" which are mostly just story lines for the journalists.

There are brief periods of domination in the sport, but then something usually happens and that domination ends. I expect Serena's domination to end, as well. But it is hardly an "era" for any of them.

Did Graf really have an era? Yes, but it will be foreever marred by the Seles stabbing, which propelled Graf back to number one and eliminated for more than two years not just her biggest opponent, but a woman who was pretty much dominating her.

Actually, everyone's accomplishments are what they are. Bob Larson is correct, that some have always tried to diminish Hingis' accomplishments, saying she didn't face stiff competition.

The truth is, Martina and Venus are the exact same age and turned pro within weeks of one another. Martina's game matured a lot faster and she got very big results a lot faster than Venus did.

Venus is still around for now and Martina is not, but Martina has still piled up a much more distinguished record of achievement than has Venus in less time on the tour than Venus has spent there. Remember, Martina missed about half of 2002 and hasn't played at all in 2003.

The part that bothers me the most is that some of those who support Venus seem to be on a never ending quest to diminish Martina's record.

I think that's because Martina always stood in the way of the Williams sisters rise in the sport. IN many ways, while Martina played part of 2002, her old prediction proved to be rather accurate.

Asked if the Williams sisters would get to the absolute top, she said maybe, after she retired. That, considering her injury problems in 2002, proved pretty prophetic.
 

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Venus still have years to go before she retires. She said that she plans to play until her early thirties. Martina will most likely never play again.

BTW, Matina was still an active player when Venus and Serena got to number one, she wasn't correct that they would be number one when she retired.
 

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Venus is still around for now and Martina is not, but Martina has still piled up a much more distinguished record of achievement than has Venus in less time on the tour than Venus has spent there. Remember, Martina missed about half of 2002 and hasn't played at all in 2003.
Also remember that unlike Martina Venus has a consistent rival in Serena. Venus has made it to a vast majority of finals in her last four years and the only person who has been beating her on a consistent basis in the slams is Venus in the finals. If not for Serena Venus would more than likely have over ten slams as we speak.

Definig someone's greatness IMO depends on the quality of competition as much as the number of titles they've won. Hence my thing with Graf.
Great champion one of the best of all time, but what would've had Monica never been stabbed? Monica's situation had an impact on Graf's career in helping her to attain all she has with Monica's troubles stemming from the incident.

So, Martina is a great player and has won so much. However, in comparison to Venus and the difference between what Hingis faced competition wise from the field than Venus coming up against a Serena only beginning to tap into what she could ultimately become as well as Venus. Hingis got competition from Venus, Serena, Capriati, as well as others and wilted under the pressure instead of figuring out a way of atleast challenging. Hence all of Mac's comments about Henin-Hardenne in relationship to Hingis and facing the same things as Hingis but working harder to find a way despite the lesser physical attributes. Venus still has years to go and continues to play despite Serena having the upper hand at the moment. She has left and is willing to stay.

I'd have more respect for Hingis(titles aside)
if she hadn't ran instead of working harder because the competition was tougher and certain plaers were starting to tap into their abilities and she wasn't winning as easily as she was use to.
 

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All the what ifs in the world don't matter. Venus and Martina were rivals and Martina finished ahead of Venus during their playing days in every category, including head to head competition.

And you can believe anything that you want about why Martina quit. Her injury problems are well documented, unlike about 90 percent of the injuries the Willies have claimed over the years.

McEnroe's opinion means nothing to me. Martina is not hanging around the sport, she is for the most part off doing other things with her life that she has wanted to do, like continuing her education and pursuing her love of show jumping horses. McEnroe will never do anything else of significance, because tennis is the only thing he is about.
 

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THIS MESSAGE BOARD has tried to rewrite history. Many people on this board actually state that Hingis just got scared and quit the game. That is ridiculous propaganda. The FACT IS WELL-DOCUMENTED that her health does not allow her to play. Stop trying to change the facts people. :rolleyes:
 

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Why is this turning into a Martina bashing thread? Martina had two surgeries on her ankles, which supports the seriousness of her injuries. MacEnroe is a jerk.

Professional athletes never know how long their careers will last. I think that Martina did make the most of her career and should never be regarded as transitional. Venus still has the possibility to add to her career and also should not be considered transitional. No one can do anything about the "quality" of the competition they face. Graf is not responsible for what happened to Seles, Serena is not responsible for Venus' not being able to beat her. Venus can do things to improve her game to beat Serena. That is her challenge now.
 

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TonyP said:
All the what ifs in the world don't matter. Venus and Martina were rivals and Martina finished ahead of Venus during their playing days in every category, including head to head competition.

And you can believe anything that you want about why Martina quit. Her injury problems are well documented, unlike about 90 percent of the injuries the Willies have claimed over the years.

McEnroe's opinion means nothing to me. Martina is not hanging around the sport, she is for the most part off doing other things with her life that she has wanted to do, like continuing her education and pursuing her love of show jumping horses. McEnroe will never do anything else of significance, because tennis is the only thing he is about.

You're so right, TonyPee, "all the what ifs in the world don't matter". However, the fact is Venus IS still actively playing, albeit, injured at the moment, and Martina is retired. Also worth noting is that although Martina's injury is well documented, there is nothing to ascertain or negate her abililty to "return" to the tour, and that's where the questions are. "Are/were her injuries career threatening...???" Or has she, as some suggested been "bested" and refuses to try and compete again. Never again will she enjoy those easy roads to the finals that she so brazenly treaded during her years of domination.

And, as far as the injuries are concerned. Venus and Serena's game is "proned" to produce injuries merely through the mechanics and power they produce. So, they'll always be bothered with the prospect of injuries. However, even with that said, they will continue to make history with every game they play. Surely the final script isn't written, but suffice it to say they'll be forever remembered for what they've accomplished so far. Their legacy has already been written.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I think it's a shame that Venus fans didn't stand up for Venus. It just proves that they have no defense. :wavey:
 

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selesrules said:
I think it's a shame that Venus fans didn't stand up for Venus. It just proves that they have no defense. :wavey:
We have a lot better things to do then play with you. ;)
 

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selesrules said:
I think it's a shame that Venus fans didn't stand up for Venus. It just proves that they have no defense. :wavey:
or they think debating you on an issue is like talking to that pile of dung with flies in the dog pen. You know you talk and talk but its still a pile of shit with flies on it. :eek: The question is do we think your the dung or the flies?? ;)
 

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I'm with KabuKe and Persond Here.

Martina QUIT!!!!

Say what you will and believe what you want. She QUIT because she knew she would never win against the Williams. She couldn't take not being No. 1. Instead of improving her game and getting better she balked.

All injuries aside....the biggest injuries were the one's The Williams put in her big Head.

Good Riddance.
 

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How can u saywith conviction that Martina quit coz of not being able to beat the top 4 players? She has an injury which prevents her fom training and exerting herself phsically, she is unable 2 compete at at competitive level! Like all top players Martina has a huge ego: If she wasn't at the top of the game she doesn't wanna play! even Davenport and Capriati have expressed similar feelings about not being in the top 3 nemore!
 

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Ballbuster said:
I'm with KabuKe and Persond Here.

Martina QUIT!!!!

Say what you will and believe what you want. She QUIT because she knew she would never win against the Williams. She couldn't take not being No. 1. Instead of improving her game and getting better she balked.

All injuries aside....the biggest injuries were the one's The Williams put in her big Head.

Good Riddance.
LOL, Hingis worried more about Dementieva and Davenport than the Williams sisters.
 
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