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I've been trying not to puke - and happily have suceeded thus far in my efforts - at some of the "comments" on this Forum over the past few days. Dignity has urged forbearance up to now but desire to see the Truth brought to bear has compelled me to post this diatribe.

First of all, to all the milquetoast pussies who - on the basis of a single close loss to a two-time slam winner who had something to prove and who was in very good form - bleated and squawked about how Justine wasn't any good any more and maybe should think about retiring gracefully (this before we received the devastating news about her enforced retirement) well, this gives the lie to the notion that a player's fans are a mirror of the player. Justine has a thousand times the testosterone of most of you (I mean this in the kindliest way - to Justine, not to you).

Next, to all the "damn with faint praise" defenders of Justine who declared that yes, Justine was only a shadow of her former glorious self but hey! her real fans would support her through her inevitable decline into mediocrity, sheeyut! Justine's comeback may not have instantly delivered all the goodies you craved (Slams, Slams, and more Slams! And never to lose to Dulko, goddammit!)) but the idea that her tennis was obviously worse is just a crock. In some ways she wasn't as good; in others she was better, and if her comeback hadn't been derailed at Wimbledon, I think it's distinctly possible her best tennis was ahead of her. It seems to be forgotten that the reason for her return was to win just ONE tournament, Wimbledon, and if she hadn't fallen at the point she seemed to have Clisters at her mercy she may well have won last year. Her tennis was really coming together, she was serving brilliantly, had thrashed Petrova in the previous round, and was in full flight against Kimmy until.........

And yet you pussies think that because she lost to Dulko at IW first match back after weeks out recovering from the leg-strain that constitutes a damning indictment of Justine's comeback? Go check out Serena's record over the past few years. She's lost in almost every tournament she's played, many times to relative nobodies, yet nobody's criticizing her record. Oh yeah,she won two Majors last year! Sure, with the draw from Heaven at Wimbledon (imagine Justine with the same draw; do you think she'd have lost if she was in even half-decent form?) and depending (as usual at the AO - think Davenport, think Loit, think Clisters, think Petrova, think Kuznetsova, think a weary Justine - of depending on a player imploding when on the brink of victory) on Azarenka to do the Azarenka thing at Melbourne Park. If she'd lost that match do you think her supporters would have been screaming at her to give it up? No, it's only Justine supporters who do that on the basis of a loss or two). Or Kimmy; what about the love and one loss to Petrova at the AO? Does that mean her comeback was a failure?

Justine was close to winning every match she played in 2010. Not once did she lose without winning at least one set. Oh, but she lost to Rezai! Well yeah, Rezai did go on to win the very same Tier One tournament but she's no good! The rankings say so! The myth of Justine just sailing through tournaments in the past is just that. A stone-cold myth! The consistent 6-0 or 6-1 sets of her fans' imaginations just don't stand up to scrutiny. Justine almost always struggled through early-rounds, even at her peak. If you're looking for a difference between 2006-7 and 2010 try fitness level. That may explain the discrepancy between the three-set win-loss records between the respective periods. Nothing to do with level of play. Yeah, but research is so goddamn boring! It's easier to bleat about ball-bashing, crap forehands, and the like.

And yeah, one thing I love is how Justine's fans kept on telling her how to hit the ball. Get rid of that forehand, Justine! Doncha know you can't hit a crosscourt forehand with a shortened backswing? Hey, ease up, Justine. Construct points, girl! Don't bash the ball! If you just went back to the smart tennis you used to play you'd be winning everything in sight! Why'd you come back playing so dumb? Listen to us! Carlos doesn't know shit!

And no we ain't talking about any Brad Gilberts here; this is the advice of people who - to put it politely - aren't being besieged by agents to sign up for the Tour. This is weekend-player advice we're talking about! And yes, we thank you for your concern but maybe Justine knows a thing or two when she continually criticizes her own play for not being aggressive enough and not taking enough chances. Have you ever heard her say she should've played safer? Yeah, but you know better, don't you? If she only played more cautiously she'd have been winning all the time. Right.

And BTW I'm so proud of her for winning two rounds of the Open and playing Kuz so close while playing with a completely shot elbow while not once complaining or making excuses. Yeah, but Kuz shouldn't have been a problem, man! She's no good, Justine is gonna dust her but if she doesn't Justine is no good any more and maybe she should think about quitting.

Pussies!
 

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Could you have posted that with a little less hostility please? I don't think anyone here right now likes to being lectured, and yes, it feels that way. Everyone deals with this in his own way, some people get angry, some people are sad, some people didn't expect it, some people did. Personally i feel like all of these ways of dealing with it are fine, cause its meant well. All of these people are passionate about justine and mean well.

If you needed this post to express your feelings over what has happened in the last weeks, thats fine, but lets not keep going with the 'milquetoast pussies' and 'damn with faint praise' defender separation of justine's fanbase.

thank you.
 

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This topic could almost be considered trolling if there were more random insults (saying "pussy" all the time lost its appeal after second or third use) thrown in and more false information. Yes, for sure, getting bageled by someone like Rezai on clay happened all the time in her career. So did first round losses to nobodies like Dulko. Her forehand was totally 2007 level, holding serve didn't become harder than breaking it, her mental issues that were gone after 2003 didn't really exist, no match she lost was a choke, after all she almost won. It's all fitness, guys!

I am the last person to be called a "fake fan", "gloryhunter", "arm chair analyst", "critic" etc, but her game did change. Just because you don't think so, many sports commentators, pundits, fans on this forum, fans on other forum have noticed it and attributed it to her desire to win Wimbledon, which led to her losing on clay. Carlos said it. She said. More aggressive. More aggressive. Hit winners. Screw different speeds, spins, change of direction, angles. Hilarious thing is, with pathetic level of competition on grass and disgusting surface homogenization, all she needed was serve at 55-60% every match and she'd win it, no problem. Nadal already proved Wimbledon could be won by one dimensional baseliner with big topspin forehand - on several occasions. All she achieved was play worse on clay, which is a game of spin and patience, 99% of the tour have no talent for.

And lastly about Serena. I dislike her very much, but she did win AO being 81 in the world. She absolutely flattened Sharapova in finals. Her Wimbledon draw in '10 was harder with Sharapova who got hot on the day and would have taken a set if she didn't choke and confident Li Na who just won a grass title and was playing well. Justine's draw included Fiona, who is terrible on grass. Russian headcases. Venus upset early. She had a dream draw for her ranking, but we all know what happened, so...
 

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Terp, what's the point of this post? It's over! We all sad, doesn't matter how different people express themself. We can only wish Justine the best in her life!
 

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Terp, you should just go ahead and puke and get it all out of your system! Be sad, upset, angry, frustrated....but don't be mean. You have some valid points, but everybody watched, hoped and processed Justine's play with their own eyes, and measured her against their own expectations.

For me, I just loved to watch her strike the ball and give it another try. We were on borrowed time, and I enjoyed the hell out of it. And yes, it hurts to know she was really, really close mid 2010 to putting it all together. But that's just the way it panned out.

I think the one main memory I'll take away from this whole effort might actually be one of the last moments - her primal scream of "allez" during the Kuz tiebreak. Like a wounded tiger, cornered, and knowing the fate that was coming. I think Justine knew she was out and done, that the arm was not holding up. She fought until the end, her instincts taking over, against all odds. I will never forget that scream. Pretty much summed up Justine's career for me - a fighter.

And yes, a tinkerer, sometimes working and sometimes not. But it just showed how freaking talented she was that she could even try all those adjustments - hugh adjustments- and still be very, very, very competitive. I'll probably remember that too.

Take it easy Terp. We have a TON of wonderful things to remember and relive in our minds and hearts - and video! I've got my match library all organized, in order of play, for any moment that I want to see the most talented female tennis player of the last several decades. Justine gave us all that and more.
 

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IMO every Justine's fans know that she played amazing at W and no way she could lose against Kim that day, but she fell...and now it's over. We have to be happy that we could see her playing again, no matter if she played horrible or wonderful.
Shell, I also never forget that 'allez'...a lot of great memories.

If this thread help you-that's okey, but calm down a little. ;)
 

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Terps

I know you're upset and angry and we all are. For me the biggest disappointment is knowing that her game was improving and that she could have achieved a lot more. Her serve was a great deal better than it ever was. Her fitness was better than it ever was. I am sure her fh would have improved too. I know you don't think there was anything wrong with her fh but it let her down badly (again) against Kuzzy. The errors were stacking up yet again and you could see the frustration she felt. You may say it was the elbow and I am sure it did contribute a lot. But, I mentioned in an earlier post to you that I had been watching the Stuttgart final recently and you know what, it was exactly the same errors off the fh. You can't dispute there was an issue there. She had admitted that they had changed the stroke, ie. shortened the swing, taking it earlier, hitting it flatter.

I am still convinced that in time, with matches, she would have won a grand slam. Not saying she would have won Wimbledon but she would have won one of the others. That to me is what I regret most about this and I think she and Carlos probably thought the same. This is going to hurt her a lot but I hope she will come to terms with it.

I think she is going to have a press conference? I am sure she will be asked about second medical opinions. At the back of my mind I do wonder as well. I heard a football manager on the radio the other day say that they had sent one of their players to the 'best' tendon doctor/surgeon regarding his injury. He was based in Sweden. Did get me thinking. Sharapova and Safina both got misdiagnoses. But, I could just be clutching at straws.
 

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Her fh was pretty poor last year before the injury as well. The only time it was good was in Australia and that's where she played the best. After that, the injuries piled up and she started losing her timing. I do wonder that her tinkering with the technique might have led to aggravating this injury, it can't have only been the fall.

And she really should ask for another doctor's opinion. Go to the states and try with those who have experience with this type of injury.
But the quickness with which she announced her retirement suggests to me that this was just a final trigger and that she was fed up with having to deal with injuries all the time.
 

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Her fh was pretty poor last year before the injury as well. The only time it was good was in Australia and that's where she played the best. After that, the injuries piled up and she started losing her timing. I do wonder that her tinkering with the technique might have led to aggravating this injury, it can't have only been the fall.

And she really should ask for another doctor's opinion. Go to the states and try with those who have experience with this type of injury.
But the quickness with which she announced her retirement suggests to me that this was just a final trigger and that she was fed up with having to deal with injuries all the time.
My thoughts exactly. she really should ask for another doctor's opinion. Didn't Nadal's knees once be sentenced to death and called never healed by his docter? So many people think he was done at that moment. Afterwards he and his team consulted and asked for another doctor's opinion and treatment, and look what happened. He completed his Career Grand Slam after that. I think maybe Justine should try,too.
 

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This topic could almost be considered trolling if there were more random insults (saying "pussy" all the time lost its appeal after second or third use) thrown in and more false information. Yes, for sure, getting bageled by someone like Rezai on clay happened all the time in her career. So did first round losses to nobodies like Dulko. Her forehand was totally 2007 level, holding serve didn't become harder than breaking it, her mental issues that were gone after 2003 didn't really exist, no match she lost was a choke, after all she almost won. It's all fitness, guys!

I am the last person to be called a "fake fan", "gloryhunter", "arm chair analyst", "critic" etc, but her game did change. Just because you don't think so, many sports commentators, pundits, fans on this forum, fans on other forum have noticed it and attributed it to her desire to win Wimbledon, which led to her losing on clay. Carlos said it. She said. More aggressive. More aggressive. Hit winners. Screw different speeds, spins, change of direction, angles. Hilarious thing is, with pathetic level of competition on grass and disgusting surface homogenization, all she needed was serve at 55-60% every match and she'd win it, no problem. Nadal already proved Wimbledon could be won by one dimensional baseliner with big topspin forehand - on several occasions. All she achieved was play worse on clay, which is a game of spin and patience, 99% of the tour have no talent for.

And lastly about Serena. I dislike her very much, but she did win AO being 81 in the world. She absolutely flattened Sharapova in finals. Her Wimbledon draw in '10 was harder with Sharapova who got hot on the day and would have taken a set if she didn't choke and confident Li Na who just won a grass title and was playing well. Justine's draw included Fiona, who is terrible on grass. Russian headcases. Venus upset early. She had a dream draw for her ranking, but we all know what happened, so...
She got bagelled on clay by Aniko Kapros back in 2002, who was by all means much worse than Rezai, and that was the year when Justine won Berlin (TierI) by beating Serena and reaching the Rome final. So it's not like it hasn't happened before.
As for the Dulko loss, such losses she's had a few. Remember when she lost to Shaugnessy in Miami in one of her best years? Or when she lost to Danilidou in the first round of Wimbledon.
It's not like everything was smooth sailing for her. She's always had her insecure periods, some weird losses or performances, she wasn't dominating left and right by losing just a couple of games. Even in her best year to date she lost to Bartoli in a semifinals of a major :lol:
 

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It's nothing. Even Graf got bagelled sometimes. But she still is the greatest in women's tennis. As long as one keeps winning GS, I don't think getting bagelled is that a big deal.
 

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:yawn:

You are the most annoying Justine fan I ever met here. Sorry but I just had to say it.

You act like you know everything about everything.

That FH debate was laughable as well.

Anyway, funny to read how you lecture us about being a Justine fan, but we are all sad, we had said some terrible things like "just retire Justine" in the heat of the moment, if we really meant it, do you think we would have been so sad this week (I even cried) ?

It is normal to be disappointed to see her losing, we should not be like "Oh wow who cares, she is still playing !" because Justine didn't like to lose matchs. She wanted to give her best. We wanted her to play her best. So I think we had rights to be angry at her after a loss. Just like Serena fans. Then disappointment. Then we cheered her over and over again. That's being a fan.

And Serena is the greatest of her generation. It is disgusting to discredit her slams wins. She may not have 848438745 titles, but at the end, she won Slams by herself in three/two different eras (Graf's/Justine's, and now Wozniacki's). I don't get what you meant.

No comment about the rest.
 

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Terp, you should just go ahead and puke and get it all out of your system! Be sad, upset, angry, frustrated....but don't be mean. You have some valid points, but everybody watched, hoped and processed Justine's play with their own eyes, and measured her against their own expectations.

For me, I just loved to watch her strike the ball and give it another try. We were on borrowed time, and I enjoyed the hell out of it. And yes, it hurts to know she was really, really close mid 2010 to putting it all together. But that's just the way it panned out.

I think the one main memory I'll take away from this whole effort might actually be one of the last moments - her primal scream of "allez" during the Kuz tiebreak. Like a wounded tiger, cornered, and knowing the fate that was coming. I think Justine knew she was out and done, that the arm was not holding up. She fought until the end, her instincts taking over, against all odds. I will never forget that scream. Pretty much summed up Justine's career for me - a fighter.

And yes, a tinkerer, sometimes working and sometimes not. But it just showed how freaking talented she was that she could even try all those adjustments - hugh adjustments- and still be very, very, very competitive. I'll probably remember that too.

Take it easy Terp. We have a TON of wonderful things to remember and relive in our minds and hearts - and video! I've got my match library all organized, in order of play, for any moment that I want to see the most talented female tennis player of the last several decades. Justine gave us all that and more.
GREAT POST!! IF only she could have won that third set against Serena at the AO! In reality though, it was amazing that she even got that far. IF she did not have that fateful fall at Wimbledon! She was awsome before the fall, just good afterwards. The loss to Dulko, was understandable considering the circumstances. Wasn't she sick when she lost to Reazi, the winner of the tournament? The sad, though proud truth, is that Justine's little body lost the strength to compete on the Pro Tour anymore. Can you imagine if she had Kim's build, how awsome she would have been? As BJK said, pound for pound, Justine was the best athlete of her time. I would say the best tennis player too!
 

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Look you guys should wikipedia the name Tommy John. This is the type of sports doctors in america. You know the place where people throw a baseball over a hundred miles an hour with the help of their elbow. They are plenty of athletes who have surgery on their elbows and have come back in a year of rehabilitation. Justine would have been serena's age by then.
 

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Look you guys should wikipedia the name Tommy John. This is the type of sports doctors in america. You know the place where people throw a baseball over a hundred miles an hour with the help of their elbow. They are plenty of athletes who have surgery on their elbows and have come back in a year of rehabilitation. Justine would have been serena's age by then.
In the middle of the 1974 season, John was cruising along with a 13-3 record as the Dodgers were en route to their first National League pennant in eight years, before he permanently damaged the ulnar collateral ligament in his pitching arm, leading to a revolutionary surgical operation. This operation, now known as Tommy John surgery, replaced the ligament in the elbow of his pitching arm with a tendon from his right forearm. The surgery was performed by Dr. Frank Jobe on September 25, 1974, and although it seemed unlikely he would ever be able to pitch again, he spent the entire 1975 season in recovery. John would work with team mate and major league pitcher Mike Marshall who was said to know how to help pitchers recover from injuries and taught John a completely different way to pitch where he would not turn his leg and go straight to the plate which eliminated the chance of him hurting his knee and arm, and he returned to the Dodgers in 1976. His 10-10 record that year was considered "miraculous" but John went on to pitch until 1989, winning 164 games after his surgery—one fewer game than all-time great Sandy Koufax won in his entire career. After Phil Niekro's retirement, John spent 1988 and 1989 as the oldest player in the major leagues. In 1989, Tommy John matched Deacon McGuire’s record (since broken) for most seasons played in a Major League Baseball career with 26 seasons played.[2] Today, many pitchers have Tommy John surgery during their careers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_John
 

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The part where this guy learnt to pitch differently... would translate to Justine hitting her forehand and backhand differently. What chances then of her ever playing at an elite level?

Is it so hard to understand that tennis athletes rely completely on their bodies? The smallest thing being compromised will completely throw them off. That being said, like debby pointed out, I think she is likely fed up with the injuries, rehab, comeback routine now that she is nearing 'old' in tennis terms. And the disappointment of her comeback not meeting her expectations might have eased the decision.
 

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Tommy John surgery? Really? You do realize that Justine would need to keep up a certain level of fitness to be able to remain competitive in tennis. Look at the bodies of baseball pitchers! Some of them are fat [email protected]@rds!

And not every pitcher comes back.

I worry about Serena not being able to come back after being out for so long with such a freak foot injury, despite fitness not being as pivotal to her game as it was to Justine's.
 
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