[Ponderer]

In the presser, Emma said 'I also had Fran Jones from the side of the court going ‘Step in!’… think I gave her like the biggest evils at 2 love down, but then it worked.' And, lest we forget, we are fortunate enough to have a shot of Emma demonstrating her technique (I'm just very glad that it wasn't directed at me.):

 

[Everton10]

So, Emma's forehand when ball is at medium height, has become more powerful this year. As Zenga noted, saw some evidence of this earlier this year, but became fully evident last week.
It could be due to, stronger wrist, better fitness, or maybe new racket.
Overall, this type of a shot requires confidence and precision.
So the question is: has Emma moved up in class permanently, or was last week a peak in form.
Given that she performed at this level under high level of pressure, leads me to believe, we are getting close to the breakout tournament that Ponderer was alluding to.
For this current tournament, I m hoping to see a continuation of her aggressive game (forehand and service return). Because, to me, these two facets of her game is what will determine her ability to Crack the top10 (rest of her game is near there already).
For this tournament, I m a bit worried that, Emma will not be at peak condition, after the physically and emotionally draining last week. So, not going to care about results this week.

 

[hStack]

So, Emma's forehand when ball is at medium height, has become more powerful this year. As Zenga noted, saw some evidence of this earlier this year, but became fully evident last week.
It could be due to, stronger wrist, better fitness, or maybe new racket.
Overall, this type of a shot requires confidence and precision.
So the question is: has Emma moved up in class permanently, or was last week a peak in form.
Given that she performed at this level under high level of pressure, leads me to believe, we are getting close to the breakout tournament that Ponderer was alluding to.
For this current tournament, I m hoping to see a continuation of her aggressive game (forehand and service return). Because, to me, these two facets of her game is what will determine her ability to Crack the top10 (rest of her game is near there already).
For this tournament, I m a bit worried that, Emma will not be at peak condition, after the physically and emotionally draining last week. So, not going to care about results this week.

Yes. There is still the question of consistency and as you said if she has permanently upped her level. Since this is her 1st WTA clay tournament of the year, the goal is to do really well in RG, not necessarily at Stuttgart. Also in another thread, several folks made comment on how good she look tennis wise at her Tuesday practice on Stuttgart. But I remember several times in the past where she look good at the practice court, but still came out flat in the matches. So hopefully this time that would not happen and that she is getting match fit so to speak.

 

[cricketbat]

Yes. There is still the question of consistency and as you said if she has permanently upped her level. Since this is her 1st WTA clay tournament of the year, the goal is to do really well in RG, not necessarily at Stuttgart. Also in another thread, several folks made comment on how good she look tennis wise at her Tuesday practice on Stuttgart. But I remember several times in the past where she look good at the practice court, but still came out flat in the matches. So hopefully this time that would not happen and that she is getting match fit so to speak.

It will take months for emma changes to fully bed in, that is normal for any layer.

Athough we know emma is talented enough that maybe she can continue, but its the right direction either way so I am not concerned - emma will get there.

 

[zenga10]

Mark Petchey said Emma has NOT changed her racket. Just a new paint job. Still the Wilson Steam, 16-20, poly mains, gut crosses.

He said she tried out a 16-19, but she feels the 16-20 gives her more control. The racket head is smaller on the 16-19.
(That doesn't make sense to me, you'd think it was the other way around, that the 16-19 with the smaller head would give more control, so maybe I misheard.)

 

[zenga10]

Some other quotes from Petchey from the match today, most of which I also posted on the 'Livescoring' thread during the match:

Petch said he coached Emma for 10 months during covid and when she had a choice of what to practice at the end of a session or whenever, she would always pick service returns.

He said it's ridiculous to try to access the future tennis potential of a 12 year old child, when we can't even see the potential of an 18 year old. He said he had to go to great lengths to persuade the Wimbledon board in '21 to give Emma a wildcard- they didn't think she deserved it. He pleaded his case on her behalf for 20 minutes he said.

Petch said you can never question Emma's determination and work ethic, it's first class.

Petch said Emma serving from a wide position to the ad court negates the T-serve a bit as it ends up going towards the opponent.
Actually same is the case to the deuce court, more so even. He suggests that she should stand closer to the centerline when serving to make the T-serves more effective. Of course, that then makes her wide serves more difficult to do, lol.

He was marveling at her agility about the court and he said that Jez Green, who worked with Emma for a short time last year, said that Emma is the best athlete that he's ever worked with. Wow.

 

[gbar23]

 

[Everton10]

So feel like Emma has managed past two big hurdles this past week.
1: beating good players playing well in the match (bodes well for rematch against Svitolina and other players at that level)
2: beating a power player (feel better now for a rematch against Penko, Giorgi...and even Sabalenka)

Remaining hurdles:
1: beating top10 (maybe this year)
2: beating Iga
3: staying healthy and maintaining consistency/effectiveness with her natural ((offensive minded) game, especially regarding her forehand (currently in progress)

 

[MrSpoon]

Interesting thread

 

[hStack]

Interesting thread

According to these tweets, this is an inherent weakness in Emma's backhand return with regards to kick serves. We also saw the same thing in AO'24 against Aryna too. Will see if it's something Emma can fix. If not many of her opponents with kick serves will surely exploit it.

 

[Everton10]

According to these tweets, this is an inherent weakness in Emma's backhand return with regards to kick serves. We also saw the same thing in AO'24 against Aryna too. Will see if it's something Emma can fix. If not many of her opponents with kick serves will surely exploit it.

I would think, not a top priority at mom, since the fix would be non-trivial to her overall swing. Could be considered before start to next season?
I would defer to the more knowledgeable folks on how material of a change, this would be to her swing.

 

[aca99da]

Interesting thread

I don't know how accurate what this guy is saying is true with his technical analysis of the backhand strokes, but I do love his attempt to analyse this in detail. 😍 I think what he is saying is that Rybakina's racket is moving through a greater range of motion from fully behind her body and that this (combined with her longer limbs) makes it easier for her to generate power when returning kick serves. It is also interesting that he has found an instance of Emma trying the 'Alexandrova technique' of standing back on one of Iga's serves, which as we can see from the last clip didn't work. 😐

 

[xenosys]

Yeah, I spotted that Emma changed her service position at 40-0 in one of the Swiatek's service games.

The problem with going further back is that unless you're able to generate an insane amount of power or depth from 2-3m behind the baseline to consistently keep Swiatek back, those mid-court shots will only encourage her to step forward and attack, which will immediately put Emma on the defensive.

She could step even further in to take the ball more on the rise before the kick really starts to spit up but you need to have ungodly accuracy and timing to do that consistently.

She'll have to work on something to counter-act her kick serve the next time they meet.

 

[zenga10]

WHAT MOTIVATES AN ATHLETE?

Tennis players, football players etc....What motivates Emma, Iga, Leylah? What motivated Roy Keane? etc

In the US the pro sports teams are made up mostly of players who played the sport in college. Every year each pro sports has its draft from the pool of players that are mostly those leaving college. The pro team that did worse last year gets to pick first, the second worst team picks second and so forth and the best pro team picks last. And it goes on like that for 7 rounds. That way some sort of parity between pro teams is maintained.

However, what is a pattern is that the best college players don't necessarily become the best pro players. So what happens? Why does a top college player who got picked early in the pro draft not even make it in the pros?

Well there are several reasons-
1. One is that the college game suited the player where the pro game doesn't. This is common in US football.
2. Another reason is motivation: a college player, especially in football, can get a huge contract leaving college and think that he has made it, he's the bees knees and all he has to do is show up. This is common in football and basketball.
3. injuries, other

Tonight is the start of the NFL draft. There are 7 rounds over next few days, 32 teams pick one player in each round, so 224 players get picked. I was watching that wondering how many of these players picked early in R1 will actually live up to the expectations?

Cast in point: 3 years ago, the Patriots picked Mac Jones as their first pick, 15th overall in R1. He was one of the best quarterbacks in his college years, played for top college team Alabama. So 15 out of 224 you would think he would be a future first team player. However, last year the Patriots let him go, as it wasn't working out. Whether it was the pressure of expectations (where have we heard that before) or whatever, but he wasn't able to perform and lead the team.

This year the Patriots had the 3rd pick (they were the 3rd worst team last year thanks to Mac Jones, lol). They picked another quarterback. So better luck this time maybe, we'll see. But 3rd pick overall you would think he should be good. Not necessarily...

in 2000 in his home in California a 22 year old who had played quarterback for Michigan University sat with his family expecting to be drafted to the NFL, hopefully early in the draft, first round maybe. Well the first round went by without success. So they gathered next evening for the 2nd round. No luck there either. Not the 3rd round either. He sat there feeling more upset as each round went by. Eventually at the end of the 6th round the New England Patriots decided to take a chance on him as one of their back-up quarterbacks. He was the 199th pick in the draft. He cried with relief. He told the owner of the Patriots after he was drafted that the owner made the best decision he ever will make, at which the owner thought "who is this guy that I drafted with the 199th pick and how can he make a statement like that"? His name was Tom Brady. He went on to become the greatest quarterback in NFL history, winning 7 Super Bowls, way more than any other player of any type.

So how did Brady become successful after being picked #199? Most of the college quarterbacks that were picked ahead of him, because they had supposedly better college careers, never even made it in the pros, got let go by the team after a few years and became car mechanics or lost souls.

MOTIVATION. That's one reason. Brady said he was so upset at getting picked #199 that he set out to prove everyone wrong. And he had the intelligence to make it happen. He became the most hardworking player on the team- he was the first player in the stadium to practice each morning (6am) and the last one to leave every day. He became a leader. He was also very smart and extremely cool under pressure, never gave up even when the team was down by a lot in a game. That team under him made some incredible comebacks. But the one thing that drove him was that he wanted to prove every team wrong that let him sit there for three days without drafting him. And he wanted to prove to himself that he was a great player. And he made himself a great player. Was not the best athlete but became the best player.

Novak Djokovic became a fan of Brady and met with him and studied his methods of how he kept his motivation to work harder than anyone else and how he exercised and the diet he used to prolong his career.

And another thing is what Leylah said. At her USO runner up speech in 2021, she said that her success was to show those teachers in high school who told her she was too small to make it in the pros, that they were wrong. And she thanked them for giving her the motivation to work harder to prove them wrong

And when Leylah said that I was reminded of Tom Brady and what motivated him to have the greatest NFL career ever. It was the same thing. And I'm thinking about that tonight as I watch the draft and wonder how many of those players think they already have it made and will get cut in 3 years, where some player drafted #199 will find the motivation to work extra hard tp prove everyone wrong and remain on the team?

But what Emma did reminded me of Tom Brady. How she kept her cool and kept a clear head under pressure and how she spoke in her interviews was very Brady-like.

So now that Emma has won the USO, what is her motivation? What gets her up out of bed early and into the gym? I would think that Emma is motivated to prove everyone who thought she was lucky to win the USO in '21 wrong. I think she's motivated to prove everyone who said she gets injured all the time wrong. To prove the UK press who wrote nasty things wrong. If she wants to be the best it should anyway. And I think it does, and Petchey said she already has a great work ethic.

But what was Anne thinking- was she trying to provoke a reaction from Emma, to motivate her to work harder? Or was Anne just not thinking? Lol.

I heard Martina N talking about her motivation once, I think it was that she was motivated to make her career a success after those in CZE said it couldn't be and she couldn't leave and abandoned her after she left. And she set out to prove them wrong and to make it in the west.

Teams here use this for motivation: 'Everyone disrespected us saying we were going to lose so we set out to prove them wrong'. It's such a common way of getting a team motivated. I've often even heard teams use it when they actually were the favorites

Will a UK press article saying Arsenal will collapse again actually motivate them more to prove the press wrong? I think it does.

What else other than finding whatever motivates you to get up earlier than everyone else so you can train harder and be more determined to achieve success than everyone else. Because if you don't you won't become the best.

 

[Ponderer]

WHAT MOTIVATES AN ATHLETE?

Tennis players, football players etc....What motivates Emma, Iga, Leylah? What motivated Roy Keane? etc

In the US the pro sports teams are made up mostly of players who played the sport in college. Every year each pro sports has its draft from the pool of players that are mostly those leaving college. The pro team that did worse last year gets to pick first, the second worst team picks second and so forth and the best pro team picks last. And it goes on like that for 7 rounds. That way some sort of parity between pro teams is maintained.

However, what is a pattern is that the best college players don't necessarily become the best pro players. So what happens? Why does a top college player who got picked early in the pro draft not even make it in the pros?

Well there are several reasons-
1. One is that the college game suited the player where the pro game doesn't. This is common in US football.
2. Another reason is motivation: a college player, especially in football, can get a huge contract leaving college and think that he has made it, he's the bees knees and all he has to do is show up. This is common in football and basketball.
3. injuries, other

Tonight is the start of the NFL draft. There are 7 rounds over next few days, 32 teams pick one player in each round, so 224 players get picked. I was watching that wondering how many of these players picked early in R1 will actually live up to the expectations?

Cast in point: 3 years ago, the Patriots picked Mac Jones as their first pick, 15th overall in R1. He was one of the best quarterbacks in his college years, played for top college team Alabama. So 15 out of 224 you would think he would be a future first team player. However, last year the Patriots let him go, as it wasn't working out. Whether it was the pressure of expectations (where have we heard that before) or whatever, but he wasn't able to perform and lead the team.

This year the Patriots had the 3rd pick (they were the 3rd worst team last year thanks to Mac Jones, lol). They picked another quarterback. So better luck this time maybe, we'll see. But 3rd pick overall you would think he should be good. Not necessarily...

in 2000 in his home in California a 22 year old who had played quarterback for Michigan University sat with his family expecting to be drafted to the NFL, hopefully early in the draft, first round maybe. Well the first round went by without success. So they gathered next evening for the 2nd round. No luck there either. Not the 3rd round either. He sat there feeling more upset as each round went by. Eventually at the end of the 6th round the New England Patriots decided to take a chance on him as one of their back-up quarterbacks. He was the 199th pick in the draft. He cried with relief. He told the owner of the Patriots after he was drafted that the owner made the best decision he ever will make, at which the owner thought "who is this guy that I drafted with the 199th pick and how can he make a statement like that"? His name was Tom Brady. He went on to become the greatest quarterback in NFL history, winning 7 Super Bowls, way more than any other player of any type.

So how did Brady become successful after being picked #199? Most of the college quarterbacks that were picked ahead of him, because they had supposedly better college careers, never even made it in the pros, got let go by the team after a few years and became car mechanics or lost souls.

MOTIVATION. That's one reason. Brady said he was so upset at getting picked #199 that he set out to prove everyone wrong. And he had the intelligence to make it happen. He became the most hardworking player on the team- he was the first player in the stadium to practice each morning (6am) and the last one to leave every day. He became a leader. He was also very smart and extremely cool under pressure, never gave up even when the team was down by a lot in a game. That team under him made some incredible comebacks. But the one thing that drove him was that he wanted to prove every team wrong that let him sit there for three days without drafting him. And he wanted to prove to himself that he was a great player. And he made himself a great player. Was not the best athlete but became the best player.

Novak Djokovic became a fan of Brady and met with him and studied his methods of how he kept his motivation to work harder than anyone else and how he exercised and the diet he used to prolong his career.

And another thing is what Leylah said. At her USO runner up speech in 2021, she said that her success was to show those teachers in high school who told her she was too small to make it in the pros, that they were wrong. And she thanked them for giving her the motivation to work harder to prove them wrong

And when Leylah said that I was reminded of Tom Brady and what motivated him to have the greatest NFL career ever. It was the same thing. And I'm thinking about that tonight as I watch the draft and wonder how many of those players think they already have it made and will get cut in 3 years, where some player drafted #199 will find the motivation to work extra hard tp prove everyone wrong and remain on the team?

But what Emma did reminded me of Tom Brady. How she kept her cool and kept a clear head under pressure and how she spoke in her interviews was very Brady-like.

So now that Emma has won the USO, what is her motivation? What gets her up out of bed early and into the gym? I would think that Emma is motivated to prove everyone who thought she was lucky to win the USO in '21 wrong. I think she's motivated to prove everyone who said she gets injured all the time wrong. To prove the UK press who wrote nasty things wrong. If she wants to be the best it should anyway. And I think it does, and Petchey said she already has a great work ethic.

But what was Anne thinking- was she trying to provoke a reaction from Emma, to motivate her to work harder? Or was Anne just not thinking? Lol.

I heard Martina N talking about her motivation once, I think it was that she was motivated to make her career a success after those in CZE said it couldn't be and she couldn't leave and abandoned her after she left. And she set out to prove them wrong and to make it in the west.

Teams here use this for motivation: 'Everyone disrespected us saying we were going to lose so we set out to prove them wrong'. It's such a common way of getting a team motivated. I've often even heard teams use it when they actually were the favorites

Will a UK press article saying Arsenal will collapse again actually motivate them more to prove the press wrong? I think it does.

What else other than finding whatever motivates you to get up earlier than everyone else so you can train harder and be more determined to achieve success than everyone else. Because if you don't you won't become the best.

Wow! You can't have got much done at work, today!

 

[eraddict]

One interesting stat is evolution of Emma's serving in the last 6 matches (Garcia/Parry/Kerber/Noskova/Iga) the aces/DFs ratios were: 9/0, 4/2, 4/0, 4/0, 1/1, 0/3. Emma has been getting tired and/or losing some of her recent serve improvements. Serve is mostly independent of opponent and one big part of Emma's game. Emma quickly loses confidence when serve does not work. So the difference between 9/0 and 1/1 or 0/3 can be larger than just 9 or 12 points. Once Emma manages to maintain good quality serving things will get better, much better.

 

[Racquetback]

One interesting stat is evolution of Emma's serving in the last 6 matches (Garcia/Parry/Kerber/Noskova/Iga) the aces/DFs ratios were: 9/0, 4/2, 4/0, 4/0, 1/1, 0/3. Emma has been getting tired and/or losing some of her recent serve improvements. Serve is independent of opponent and one big part of Emma's game. Emma quickly loses confidence when serve does not work. So the difference between 9/0 and 1/1 or 0/3 can be larger than just 9 or 12 points. Once Emma manages to maintain good quality serving things will get better, much better.

Interesting post and though I agree with the general trend in her serving performance, I don't think serving stats are wholly independent of opponent. Take aces for example - an opponent's return of serve definitely affects the number of aces. Even double fault rate, though less affected than ace production, can be influenced by an opponent's stance and the kind of return pattern. But for sure, a strong serve is key for Emma's game

 

[zenga10]

Posting this here also...
Her emojis on the post are a bunch of grapes, sunshine, rnr, and sleep
View attachment 314615
So it seems most likely that's where she's been, at a vineyard and @julesjules posted that it was in Napa. I don't know why she went there in the middle of the clay season, maybe she was even more run down than we thought and needed a break.

Sad that she wasn't at NTC since Madrid. I hope I'm wrong but it seems unlikely if she's been taking a break that she would go straight to practice in Rome. It seems more likely that she would go to the gym at the NTC for at least a week to build up and then go a tournament.

Perhaps she had intended to play Rome, and then got really run down and decided she wasn't going to be ready for Rome and entered Strasbourg instead. A bit bizarre though to go to Napa, though nice for her, that's a bit of a hike if you're run down when you could just hang out in Spain. I wonder when that was planned.

Hopefully she'll become more robust as the year goes on. And hopefully she's looking at ways to do that with her trainers and nutritionists and coach in London. And once she is able to handle the singles schedule maybe she will do some doubles, a lot of players do, and she'll feel more part of the tour. But doubles seems a ways off for Emma, probably not on her radar atm.

 

[Ponderer]

Posting this here also...
Her emojis on the post are a bunch of grapes, sunshine, rnr, and sleep
View attachment 314615
So it seems most likely that's where she's been, at a vineyard and @julesjules posted that it was in Napa. I don't know why she went there in the middle of the clay season, maybe she was even more run down than we thought and needed a break.

Sad that she wasn't at NTC since Madrid. I hope I'm wrong but it seems unlikely if she's been taking a break that she would go straight to practice in Rome. It seems more likely that she would go to the gym at the NTC for at least a week to build up and then go a tournament.

Perhaps she had intended to play Rome, and then got really run down and decided she wasn't going to be ready for Rome and entered Strasbourg instead. A bit bizarre though to go to Napa, though nice for her, that's a bit of a hike if you're run down when you could just hang out in Spain. I wonder when that was planned.

Hopefully she'll become more robust as the year goes on. And hopefully she's looking at ways to do that with her trainers and nutritionists and coach in London. And once she is able to handle the singles schedule maybe she will do some doubles, a lot of players do, and she'll feel more part of the tour. But doubles seems a ways off for Emma, probably not on her radar atm.

Well, that's making the assumption that all those pictures had been taken very recently, rather than including some taken last month, so I suppose it comes down to whether one thinks it more likely that Emma popped off to Napa for a break, or just posted a couple of older pics: the emojis, including the grapes etc. could just as easily refer to Spain, of course, as Napa, and the wine bar was definitely from Spain.

 

[zenga10]

Emma said she was exhausted and decided she needed a break after she lost Madrid, and so be it. I'm sure it was a wonderful break and she is physically and mentally refreshed now.

As long as she's working with her coaches, building her fitness and endurance levels, and understanding nutrition and is getting enough sleep (10-12 hours for an athlete) so she has energy in her matches, so that as the year goes on she can play multiple matches and not feel as exhausted as she did in Madrid, then that's all that matters. Hopefully the LTA has the staff to advise on this because Emma said she was mentally exhausted, meaning she did not get enough sleep, probably over the BJKC and Stuttgart and it caught up to her. Maybe Nick needs to take the phone away from Emma (like they did at the USO and we all know how that turned out). Be brave Nick! Lol.

Two things that may get overlooked- nutrition and sleep. In addition to working on fitness and endurance, does the LTA have advisers on nutrition and sleep? Emma has faded in matches before, this time she said she was more mentally tired. Though to me she seemed physically and mentally tired.

Complex carbohydrates are what give you energy that’s long lasting, not sugar drinks. But in the media carbohydrates have a bad rep as they can cause weight gain in those of us that are not active. But they are essential for athletes to store energy.

Emma said she was mentally tired. Is she getting enough sleep after tough matches? I've heard veteran athletes say that when they were younger on pro teams they needed 10-12 hours sleep every night. But when they retired they could do with 6. That is the difference. And if Emma is anything like many of us, she's on her phone late into the night, lol. It seems to be a global problem that didn't exist 20 years ago. At the USO her team took the phone away from her and she won the USO. Not a complicated equation, lol. But if Nick tried to take away her phone now she would probably just laugh at him.

Also, rather than jet out the minute she gets defeated in singles, I hope that at some point this year Emma starts to play doubles, it would surely help her fitness and tennis levels, a lot of players do and I think it helps them, they say it does anyway. It's helped Coco and Jess at the net, in fact, Jess uses it as general practice. And for Emma, especially while she’s not going deep in tournaments, though Serena played doubles even when she was at the top.