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I think it's high time we list all the double-standards people are putting upon Venus and Serena

I'll start the list w/the most obvious.

The Williams sisters don't get fan support, because the fans like to root for the underdogs.

How long were they allowed to be underdogs? Two/three matches into thier careers?

Venus and Serena are dominating the Slams, that makes it boring for tennis fans.

They loved the Chrissy & Martina show for years. Same w/Hingis/Davenport, Graf/Seles

Thier arrogance makes it hard to root for them.

Others have made similar statements w/out the backlash.

I don't like the Williams sisters because of thier father.

Yet Dockic,Graf,Capriati,Pierce have never been villified for the actions/words of thier dads.
 

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What's a dobule?
 

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"The Williams sisters don't get fan support, because the fans like to root for the underdogs.

How long were they allowed to be underdogs? Two/three matches into thier careers?"

It's hard to say how supportive the crowds were before they start dominating, because it's a long time ago. Venus got a lot of support when she beated Spirlea in the us open 97, for example.

"Venus and Serena are dominating the Slams, that makes it boring for tennis fans.

They loved the Chrissy & Martina show for years. Same w/Hingis/Davenport, Graf/Seles"

Yes, because the Graf/Seles and the Evert/Navratilova rivalties were interesting, not to say fascinating. Hardly the case for the Williams vs Williams matches.

"Thier arrogance makes it hard to root for them.

Others have made similar statements w/out the backlash."

Every player gets backlash for what they say. Hingis, Capriati, etc

"I don't like the Williams sisters because of thier father.

Yet Dockic,Graf,Capriati,Pierce have never been villified for the actions/words of thier dads."

Dokic is. And when has Graf/Capriati/Pierce father has attacked other players?

Next :rolleyes:
 

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What's that creaking, scratching sound? Oh yes, the sound of a broken record being played over and over again.

With reference to the domination issue, I can assure you that I found the Graf/Seles/Navratilova domination of tennis just as boring as the Williams sisters domination of tennis. But of course they were nice white girls, not like those awful blacks you see dominating the sport nowadays - that's the reason why I dislike them down to a tee, isn't it? Honestly, the idiocy...
 

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I agree completely with Cookie Box.

Dokic, Pierce, Graf and Lucic have dads who are mean and abusive to them.
Richard gets along fine with his daughters thus acting like an idiot means Serena and Venus get along fine with an idiot, and you know... you are what you hang with... ;)

Chrissy vs Martina had opposite styles, it was a baseliner vs a serve and volleyer, a tomboy vs a girls girl, outspoken vs shy, etc.
Williams vs Williams is just power and errors vs power and errors.
 

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I disagree with you on the rivalries Forehand-

As great as Evert-Navratilova was-it was very "boring" for a couple years-especially 1983-84. The press let the the women know it too.

Seles and Graf both got blamed for making the tour "boring". Comparing them as a package isn't the same as the sisters or Chris and Martina. Graf and Seles never met repeatedly in slams finals back to back. Ditto for Davenport-Hingis.

I will agree it is unfair to judge a child by the parent. I'll state for the record that all the parents mentioned are jerks-with Jim Pierce taking the cake.
 

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Hard to follow a thread when almost everyone in the thread is on ignore :rolleyes:

The arrogant accusation gets to me...the have never said anything derogatory about anyone. they have always commented about their own abilities...ok...they think they are better than the rest..that is far better than coming out and saying someone is crap...just like Anna Kournikova did when she was first starting out and she thought she was the shit...she opened her trap talking about how Venus and Serena couldn't play....hmmm...look who rules the tennis courts now.

The Swiss Miss :rolleyes: more like Swiss Biotch....she cut down people left and right with her mouth and tennis racquet. To me she is the epitome of arrogance..but to many people thats fine for her to act that way...
 

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DA FOREHAND said:
I think it's high time we list all the double-standards people are putting upon Venus and Serena
Does this matter? SOME aspect of it, on the part of SOME people, is ultimately white racism. Fine. The open-minded and open-eyed already know that. But a lot of it is also Know-Nothings who parrot the words of talking heads on TV. Those people aren't bigoted. Just incapable of independent thought. But guess what? Venus and Serena are both compensated handsomely, and no one guarantees anybody fan adulation.

If you wanna complain about double standards, maybe you could focus on why, in the USA, in every single state, more money is spent per capita on White students than Black students. Or why the Republican party in the USA put so much effort into denying Blacks voters their voting rights inthe last election.

Venus and Serena are millionaires with ten fans for every detractor. I hate to say a double standard doesn't matter, but this is like working to insure millionaires should recieve tax breaks along with the working poor, because otherwise, it wouldn't be 'fair'.

So fucking what? It ISN'T fair. But it also isn't the end-all and be-all.

Compared to what Althea Gibson went through, what Venus and Serena have been through is simply an intensely unpleasant cakewalk. Althea risked her LIFE ging on certain tennis courts, and certainly got more death threats than virtually any player in WTA history.

In short, if you're loved by millions, paid extravagantly to play a game, and are the best in the world at it to boot, you may do more good for more people by enduring racism than not. How often do most tennis fans and/or writers even admit there's still racism in the game? Not too damn often. Until we get an Indian Wells 2000 final, or RG 2003 semi. Then SOME of them will admit there might be some MINUTE element of white racism still in the game. For the rest, they live in denial. After all, the other choice is admitting that the United States of America was founded and was officially, for most of its existence, a society with preferential treatment for Whites. (I suppose its because some whites believed they couldn't compete on a level playing field, but who knows? I sure don't.)

What I DO know is Venus and Serena are fabulously successful, and every couple of years, they force a lot of people (who would prefer to deny it) to admit that there's still white bias in the sport. I thank them for that. But I'm not real worried about white racist fans get into tournaments and booing.

a) Venus and Serena have bodyguards

b) There are REAL propblems to be solved in the world.

So please orgive me. But the thread is trivial. Really.
 
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I can't talk for other people, but in my case

DA FOREHAND said:
How long were they allowed to be underdogs? Two/three matches into thier careers?
personally, I don't root for the underdog, Justine isn't the underdog normally unless she plays Kim or the sisters, I used to follow Martina who was normally the favourite (talking about 97), so, this bit maybe true in general but doesn't apply to me.
Venus and Serena are dominating the Slams, that makes it boring for tennis fans.
correction, it makes it boring for non-Serena fans, if Justine was dominating I wouldn't find it boring although I admit it would be for other people.

They loved the Chrissy & Martina show for years. Same w/Hingis/Davenport, Graf/Seles
personally I was a fan of Hingis, Evert and Navratilova, so it was fine for me.

there is a major difference, it's not Venus and Serena's fault but it's a fact, they are sisters, there is no bad blood between them, no real antagonism, I remember Venus said once but if she won the match, fine, but she was happy with her little sister winning, it was a win/win situation for her. Same with the fans, most fans of one sister like the other as well, they may like one more than the other but it's not too bad if the least favourite wins.

with Navratilova/Evert fans normally rooted for one or the other, not both, same with Graf/Seles, Hingis/Davenport, that's why also a lot of people found Venus/Hingis interesting, because there was a true rivalry between them, they didn't like each other, fans of one didn't like the other so it was bad for one group and very good for the other group, depending on the result, you don't get that with Venus and Serena.

(I have to admit that between Kim and Justine for example there isn't that much of a rivalry, many belgians support both and are happy with whatever the result is).
Thier arrogance makes it hard to root for them.
I don't like arrogance, I know, Hingis fans, but with Martina, I rather tolerated her arrogance more than liked it, if I liked Serena or Venus for other reasons their arrogance wouldn't bother me.

I don't like the Williams sisters because of thier father.
not in my case, I used to really dislike Richard but he has gotten a lot better lately and in any case, I didn't like him, not his daughters (I didn't like them but for other reasons). Now, I do have to admit that some of their fans had made me some times dislike them more, I know it's not fair and it's not their fault but I can't help feeling that way some times.

Yet Dockic,Graf,Capriati,Pierce have never been villified for the actions/words of thier dads.
In the case of Dokic, I think her father's behaviour has influenced her own, so I could say I don't like Dokic because of the way her father influenced her.
 

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Rollo said:
I disagree with you on the rivalries Forehand-

As great as Evert-Navratilova was-it was very "boring" for a couple years-especially 1983-84. The press let the the women know it too.

Seles and Graf both got blamed for making the tour "boring". Comparing them as a package isn't the same as the sisters or Chris and Martina. Graf and Seles never met repeatedly in slams finals back to back. Ditto for Davenport-Hingis.

I will agree it is unfair to judge a child by the parent. I'll state for the record that all the parents mentioned are jerks-with Jim Pierce taking the cake.

But the Chris/Martina show still drew the crowds in. Much like the sisters do today. I agree no double standard here but definitely very much media perpetuated.
 

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Joseosu19 said:
Why complain? Your not convincing anyone to be their fans, so there is no reason to complain. You should just enjoy them winning, and not concern yourself on whether other people like them or not.
As much as I want to give you a huge juicy kiss for that so true statement, reality is, it would get pretty BORING around here if people had nothing to bitch about...... :kiss:
 

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I certainly agree...!!!

Volcana said:
DA FOREHAND said:
I think it's high time we list all the double-standards people are putting upon Venus and Serena
Does this matter? SOME aspect of it, on the part of SOME people, is ultimately white racism. Fine. The open-minded and open-eyed already know that. But a lot of it is also Know-Nothings who parrot the words of talking heads on TV. Those people aren't bigoted. Just incapable of independent thought. But guess what? Venus and Serena are both compensated handsomely, and no one guarantees anybody fan adulation.

If you wanna complain about double standards, maybe you could focus on why, in the USA, in every single state, more money is spent per capita on White students than Black students. Or why the Republican party in the USA put so much effort into denying Blacks voters their voting rights inthe last election.

Venus and Serena are millionaires with ten fans for every detractor. I hate to say a double standard doesn't matter, but this is like working to insure millionaires should recieve tax breaks along with the working poor, because otherwise, it wouldn't be 'fair'.

So fucking what? It ISN'T fair. But it also isn't the end-all and be-all.

Compared to what Althea Gibson went through, what Venus and Serena have been through is simply an intensely unpleasant cakewalk. Althea risked her LIFE ging on certain tennis courts, and certainly got more death threats than virtually any player in WTA history.

In short, if you're loved by millions, paid extravagantly to play a game, and are the best in the world at it to boot, you may do more good for more people by enduring racism than not. How often do most tennis fans and/or writers even admit there's still racism in the game? Not too damn often. Until we get an Indian Wells 2000 final, or RG 2003 semi. Then SOME of them will admit there might be some MINUTE element of white racism still in the game. For the rest, they live in denial. After all, the other choice is admitting that the United States of America was founded and was officially, for most of its existence, a society with preferential treatment for Whites. (I suppose its because some whites believed they couldn't compete on a level playing field, but who knows? I sure don't.)

What I DO know is Venus and Serena are fabulously successful, and every couple of years, they force a lot of people (who would prefer to deny it) to admit that there's still white bias in the sport. I thank them for that. But I'm not real worried about white racist fans get into tournaments and booing.

a) Venus and Serena have bodyguards

b) There are REAL propblems to be solved in the world.

So please orgive me. But the thread is trivial. Really.

I must admit, that basically I agree with your point of view...!!! And, for sure, alot of concern may be wasted on the Williamses, who as you have pointed out, are in a place far, far better than most of us. And, yes, when faced with the true problems facing this world, this whole damn board is trivial and is often an exercise in futility. And, yet, I submit that there exist within these confines, "a moment of truth". Does this make it worthwhile? I think so...!!!
 

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Rebecca said:
The horse is dead. For the love of God, let it rest.
Some people enjoy and probably have some sort of perverse pleasure from "beating a dead horse"...!!! Do you want to "deny" them that pleasure...???
 
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