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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
There are soo many articles of serena being the best of all time but what about venus? People are always saying that venus is really patchy and that doens help her cause but so is serena isn't she??she has lost soo many 'easy' matches in the past few years...just like venus...
e.g wimbly 05 vs craybas

lets forget about achievements for one second and focus on ability....venus and serena are the elite two most certainly of this era and theres no competition even from the likes of henin...also, most people would say they're the two best to ever play tennis so lets break it down head to head, shot to shot (dont jump on my back if you disagree with anything i say..)

Tied at 7 - 7
1998 AUSTRALIAN OPEN HARD (O) R64 V. WILLIAMS 7-6(4) 6-1
1998 ITALIAN OPEN CLAY (O) Q V. WILLIAMS 6-4 6-2
1999 MIAMI HARD (O) F V. WILLIAMS 6-1 4-6 6-4
1999 GRAND SLAM CUP HARD (I) F S. WILLIAMS 6-1 3-6 6-3
2000 WIMBLEDON GRASS (O) S V. WILLIAMS 6-2 7-6(3)
2001 INDIAN WELLS HARD (O) S S. WILLIAMS
2001 US OPEN HARD (O) F V. WILLIAMS 6-2 6-4
2002 MIAMI HARD (O) S S. WILLIAMS 6-2 6-2
2002 FRENCH OPEN CLAY (O) F S. WILLIAMS 7-5 6-3 3 / 3
2002 WIMBLEDON GRASS (O) F S. WILLIAMS 7-6(4) 6-3 2 / 2
2002 US OPEN HARD (O) F S. WILLIAMS 6-4 6-3
2003 AUSTRALIAN OPEN HARD (O) F S. WILLIAMS 7-6(4) 3-6 6-4
2003 WIMBLEDON GRASS (O) F S. WILLIAMS 4-6 6-4 6-2
2005 MIAMI HARD (O) Q V. WILLIAMS 6-1 7-6(8)
2005 US OPEN HARD (O) R16 V. WILLIAMS 7-6(5) 6-2

Shot vs Shot

Serve... First Serve - Venus has faster average serve speed but serena varys her serve more..venus' serve is more intimidating than serena so i'd say its a tie.
Second Serve - Obviously Serena wins this one, she has the best second serve on the tour. Period.

Volley - Venus' volleys are very good, some of the best in the game right now, Serena's are good too, she volleyed really well against henin in miami. Venus wins this one

Movement - Venus is the quicker player with better footwork, recently serena seems to be moving a bit slower and has been quite lazy with the foot work im sure shes working on it as we speak.. venus wins this one

Forehand - Venus' forehand is verey temperamental, one day it will be smacking winners everywhere, the next spraying errors everywhere..however its been getting better and better since charlesdon. Seren's forehand is weaker than her backhand but much more solid than venus' so serena wins this one

Backhand - Serena's has an amazing backhand...but so does venus...tie

Mental Strength - We all know that serena is one of the mentally toughest sportsperson, man or woman..ever so theres no doubt about it, she wins but lets not take venus lightly, she has shown that she is one of the mentally stongest players but the one thing which seems to be missing is her confidence. Lets face it, serena probably thinks she can beat Roger federer its not arrogance but confidence and self belief venus however, has a more quiet personality and although she always believes in herself, she she seems not be confident in everything she does and i think she tends to keep everything inside her, i think she playes better when she lets everything out like serena e.g 05 wimbly...even in the pova match i saw her smiling after long rallies she lost :eek:! i believe that she is starting to get back into her winning ways and is getting more and more confident with every match..if she has got the old venus' confidence back by RG, i can't see anyone but a serena playing really well herself, stopping her..

Remember when serena was in venus' shadow and she finally stepped out of it at the 1999 Us Open? I think that venus is now in Serenas shadow lets see if at RG people start to take notice of her again..

i think that they are VERY VERY close in terms of ability but why is it always serena's name mentioned as the all time best and not venus?

Discuss please
 

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Re: Is Venus now the one in the shadow of serena?

It all comes down to which one has the most grandslams at the end of their career. When it comes down to greatness it's the grandslams that seperates the two of them.
 

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Re: Is Venus now the one in the shadow of serena?

Because Serena has acheived more on more surfaces and beat Venus in a number of GS finals.

I don't honestly see how anyone can claim that Venus is 'very close' in ability to Serena. Serena is a class above now and has been for quite a while.
 

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Re: Is Venus now the one in the shadow of serena?

I think Serena's first serve is more intimidating than Vee's :scratch:


I dunno, I definately think they have fulfilled the prophecy that Serena would become a better player because she's more cut-throat.

Vee is DEFINATELY top 5 material, but I'm not sure she'll surpass Serena in GS won, and I think that if they keep playing, Serena MAY pass Venus in titles won too :shrug:

That being said, I still think Venus is a GREAT player, and I will ALWAYS support her 100%, but I just think that Serena's more vicious, and that's why she's playing better,....but like you said, when Venus is ON her game, it's lights out against EVERYONE....well, everyone excpet her sister ;)



I really am looking forward to another match between them, now that Serena's back in shape :yeah:

(maybe the Wimbledon final perhaps? ;) :cool: )
 

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Re: Is Venus now the one in the shadow of serena?

I think Serena's first serve is more intimidating than Vee's :scratch:


I dunno, I definately think they have fulfilled the prophecy that Serena would become a better player because she's more cut-throat.

Vee is DEFINATELY top 5 material, but I'm not sure she'll surpass Serena in GS won, and I think that if they keep playing, Serena MAY pass Venus in titles won too :shrug:

That being said, I still think Venus is a GREAT player, and I will ALWAYS support her 100%, but I just think that Serena's more vicious, and that's why she's playing better,....but like you said, when Venus is ON her game, it's lights out against EVERYONE....well, everyone excpet her sister ;)



I really am looking forward to another match between them, now that Serena's back in shape :yeah:

(maybe the Wimbledon final perhaps? ;) :cool: )
i'd like to see another match of them too...but first of all serena needs to get back in shape again, because i've heard that she's withdrawn from berlin :sad: and i'd also like to add that i don't think serena's forehand is weaker than her backhand :p
 

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Re: Is Venus now the one in the shadow of serena?

Vee has more intimidating 1st serve :spit: Serenas 1st serve is much more deadly!! She can vary it soo well..While Vee cant place it so well.:eek:
 

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Re: Is Venus now the one in the shadow of serena?

For career achievements Venus is equal or close to Hingis and Henin. Since she's Serena's sister, who's the most successful player of the decade, Venus inevitably comes out of a comparison between the two as second best. Other important players are judged on their own merits, and not on how they compare with those of someone else in the family. But Venus has got nothing to worry about, her own place in tennis history is secure.
 

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Re: Is Venus now the one in the shadow of serena?

I think Serena's first serve is more intimidating than Vee's :scratch:


I dunno, I definately think they have fulfilled the prophecy that Serena would become a better player because she's more cut-throat.

Vee is DEFINATELY top 5 material, but I'm not sure she'll surpass Serena in GS won, and I think that if they keep playing, Serena MAY pass Venus in titles won too :shrug:

That being said, I still think Venus is a GREAT player, and I will ALWAYS support her 100%, but I just think that Serena's more vicious, and that's why she's playing better,....but like you said, when Venus is ON her game, it's lights out against EVERYONE....well, everyone excpet her sister ;)



I really am looking forward to another match between them, now that Serena's back in shape :yeah:

(maybe the Wimbledon final perhaps? ;) :cool: )
EDIT: including her sister:p
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Re: Is Venus now the one in the shadow of serena?

Vee has more intimidating 1st serve :spit: Serenas 1st serve is much more deadly!! She can vary it soo well..While Vee cant place it so well.:eek:
your probably right acually, a 6 foot two woman is probably as intimidating as a big muscular woman:yeah:
 

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Re: Is Venus now the one in the shadow of serena?

I think Serena's first serve is more intimidating than Vee's :scratch:


I dunno, I definately think they have fulfilled the prophecy that Serena would become a better player because she's more cut-throat.

Vee is DEFINATELY top 5 material, but I'm not sure she'll surpass Serena in GS won, and I think that if they keep playing, Serena MAY pass Venus in titles won too :shrug:

That being said, I still think Venus is a GREAT player, and I will ALWAYS support her 100%, but I just think that Serena's more vicious, and that's why she's playing better,....but like you said, when Venus is ON her game, it's lights out against EVERYONE....well, everyone excpet her sister ;)



I really am looking forward to another match between them, now that Serena's back in shape :yeah:

(maybe the Wimbledon final perhaps? ;) :cool: )
agreed
 

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Re: Is Venus now the one in the shadow of serena?

They are so close in everything. Their games match up pretty evenly, obviously ... they were taught by the same person/same coaches. Venus has been the more consistent one through out her career in terms of results ... but Serena has won the big matches. At the end of the day, people will look back and say "Serena won xxx amount of Grand Slams; Venus won xxx amount of Grand Slams".
 

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Re: Is Venus now the one in the shadow of serena?

Is there even a doubt she is...?!
 

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Re: Is Venus now the one in the shadow of serena?

Because Serena has acheived more on more surfaces and beat Venus in a number of GS finals.

I don't honestly see how anyone can claim that Venus is 'very close' in ability to Serena. Serena is a class above now and has been for quite a while.
In term of success Serena is above the pack, but in Terms of ability Venus and Serena are very close, only 3 slams wins separates Venus and Serena in terms of success.

It's rare that you find two siblings who are grand slam winners in singles, mixed, and doubles. It's rare that you find 2 siblings that both become 1# players. It's rare that you find two sisters who simultaneously hold the #1 and #2 spots. It's also rare that two siblings get the chance to play 6 slams finals against each other. So in terms of ability Venus and Serena are closely matched!
 

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Re: Is Venus now the one in the shadow of serena?

i dont think that Serena was ever in Venuss shadows...
it just took her some time to find her rhythm...

She has a great serve, good backhand, good forehand, great speed.
It just took her a while to develope that mental edge factor that gains power with time...

once she had that, she never looked back, she never let it reached below her 2001-2002 level...
she grew with the game...

and Venus is neither on anyones shadow other than herself...
she hows to to hit a good forehand, she knows how to serve..
shes a very experienced player...
yet...sometimes, if not most of the time...
she somehow loses focus in the middle of the set..!!!
but if she loses the first set, then she focusses more for the 2nd set...

and Venus, would never be in a shadow of an injured player..!!!

Venus is Venus...
different players.
different destinys...
 

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Re: Is Venus now the one in the shadow of serena?

In term of success Serena is above the pack, but in Terms of ability Venus and Serena are very close, only 3 slams wins separates Venus and Serena in terms of success.

It's rare that you find two siblings who are grand slam winners in singles, mixed, and doubles. It's rare that you find 2 siblings that both become 1# players. It's rare that you find two sisters who simultaneously hold the #1 and #2 spots. It's also rare that two siblings get the chance to play 6 slams finals against each other. So in terms of ability Venus and Serena are closely matched!
If you mean that they're closely matched as sisters then, yes, they are closer in ability than any other sibling pair of tennis players in history.

But, if you're looking at them as two separate players, a 3 Slam differential is not minor - particularly when Serena beat Venus to win them. And it's more than that anyway - Serena not only has a career slam (very rare in tennis) but her non calendar slam (even rarer) whereas Venus is some way off her career slam and realistically is never going to win a calendar or non calendar slam.
 

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Re: Is Venus now the one in the shadow of serena?

i'd like to see another match of them too...but first of all serena needs to get back in shape again, because i've heard that she's withdrawn from berlin :sad: and i'd also like to add that i don't think serena's forehand is weaker than her backhand :p
Mission Accomplished: :cool:





I think the Berlin w/d was just a safety precaution, she'll be fine for RG :yeah:
 

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Re: Is Venus now the one in the shadow of serena?

Mission Accomplished: :cool:





I think the Berlin w/d was just a safety precaution, she'll be fine for RG :yeah:
I hope so (I really do - I enjoy watching Serena on clay and it's been a loooong time) but I can't help wishing that she wouldn't wear heels like that.. it makes me worry about her knee.
 
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