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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
She was defending champion, and undisputed world number one leading 4-2 30-love serving. What really happened. I don't buy it for a min. that the "hand" seen round the world made her come undone. She's faced much more hostile crowds(mobs/gangs Indian Wells). She's overcome bigger obstacles 1-5 A.O -v- Kim.

I think she melted under the pressure of the situation, and learned a valuable lesson in the process.
 
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She played poorly, as she had been doing for the vast majority of that match. She was only in that winning position in the third set because Henin had failed to close her out properly in the second, when she had chances to win in straight sets. Bottom line, it was her volleys that lost her the match - at 5-5, she had a game point after saving breakpoint and tapped a forehand volley safely cross-court allowing Henin to pass down the line, then on the first point of the next game she hit the same volley meekly back to Henin, who then lobbed her with ease.
 

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Hendouble said:
She played poorly, as she had been doing for the vast majority of that match. She was only in that winning position in the third set because Henin had failed to close her out properly in the second, when she had chances to win in straight sets. Bottom line, it was her volleys that lost her the match - at 5-5, she had a game point after saving breakpoint and tapped a forehand volley safely cross-court allowing Henin to pass down the line, then on the first point of the next game she hit the same volley meekly back to Henin, who then lobbed her with ease.
That point that you speak of is a classic example of what Serena does when she chokes. She plays safe, taps volleys into court instead of driving them, slices balls instead of going over the top.
I think she did choke in that match, which is not surprising since she is a known choker. Against Mauresmo in the previous match i think she felt the pressure and choked too, but it wasnt obvious bc of how badly Mauresmo was playing. Serena feels pressure when she has to defend titles, no matter what she might claim. I've noticed that she plays nervously in most tournaments that shes won the year before.
She should have closed Justine out at 4-2 and 30-0 in the 3rd, but she didnt. In the 2nd set she picked her level up and carried the momentum into the 3rd, but then after the hand incident she started to fall apart again and went back to playing how she did in the 1st. Justine also did her share of choking when she served for the match for the first time, but by then it was too late, Serenas game was already gone.
 

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In both cases, Serena and Clijsters started making lots of cheap unforced errors - the difference is, Serena had been making errors since the start of her match, whereas Clijsters had been playing brilliantly up to that stage in the Venus match. When you suddenly start missing when you have a lead, that's a choke - when you return to missing as you have done the whole match, that's just poor form.
 

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yes but so did justine at 5:4 and sort of in the second set(even when she never was a break up or so)

in the last two games serena seemed to be intimidated more and justine not so much
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Very valuable lesson for Serena. She's learned alot from watching Venus get some hard knocks but hasn't quite mastered the art of defending. Venus is still best on tour in that dept.
 

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Hendouble said:
In both cases, Serena and Clijsters started making lots of cheap unforced errors - the difference is, Serena had been making errors since the start of her match, whereas Clijsters had been playing brilliantly up to that stage in the Venus match. When you suddenly start missing when you have a lead, that's a choke - when you return to missing as you have done the whole match, that's just poor form.
Uh I don't care how you try to sell it-- they both were in the same state (up a set and a break in another).
 

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Well no, because Serena was in the third and deciding set and Clijsters was only in the second - the fact that Serena had lost a set and Clijsters hadn't shows that one was in poor form, the other was in good form but choked. It's not the same scenario at all.
 

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Hendouble said:
Well no, because Serena was in the third and deciding set and Clijsters was only in the second - the fact that Serena had lost a set and Clijsters hadn't shows that one was in poor form, the other was in good form but choked. It's not the same scenario at all.

:banghead: it doesn't matter if Serena lost the 1st set-- bottom-line she was in the driver's seat just like Kim . No ifs, ands, or buts :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I agree Hen, but you also have to take into account that it's hard to "step it up" when the game you were playing put you in the position you are in in the match. Not many players can go from passive to aggressive in the same match, nor are they willing to abandon the gameplan that put them in a winning position.
 

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Infiniti, no need to bang your head - my whole point is that Serena wasn't in the driving seat. She'd clawed her way back into the match, playing ugly but successful tennis, and was only up a break because of Henin's errors in her previous service game. She'd been up a break already in that set and got broken back, so she certainly wasn't running away with the match. If she was ever going to win, she had to win ugly, and she couldn't do that. But it wasn't a choke - to choke you have to be in a position of clear superiority, and Serena was never in that position at all during that match.
 

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Justine should have won that 2nd set, but she made some errors. She played worse since that time : Serena could have take this to her advantage. But at one moment in the 3rd, she seemed not to be that confident, that she's used to. Then, Justine knew there was a chance for her to come back, and she took her chance in a wonderful way.
What the difference with Clijsters at AO is, that Serena didn't have any match point + there wasn't such a difference in points, and Serena didn't really help justine to win that match (Kim started having many errors).
I don't think Serena choked. She might have gagged a bit.
 

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If my favourite had been in Serena's place, I would consider it a great achievement for her to be leading in the third set considering the way that she had played the rest of the match thus far. If she'd been playing as poorly as Serena did, I wouldn't put it down to a choke that she lost from being up a break in the final set.
 

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Nope, she didn't. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
J&C, a choke is a choke, so maybe you're saying Kim choked, and Serena gagged?
 

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PhoenixStorm said:
yes she choked.
Forget Kim then, Serena is the new and real choker! :)
 
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