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Discussion Starter #3,281
In the UK, the number was high even after removing the socio economic factors .

According to this, black people 4x more likely to die of COVID-19 than white people, even when socioeconomic factors removed. PFA asks Premier League to research Covid-19's impact on BAME players | Premier League | The Guardia




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There has been talk of genetics playing a role. THe UK has set up a commission to investigate the reasons so it will be interesting to see what their conclusions are.

I doubt whether a a lack of access to healthcare is a factor, as suggested by another poster, because black people have the same access to healthcare as white people in the UK.
 

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My point isn't that coronavirus is not dangerous. My point is the hypocrisy of people who were posting unvetted videos of Chinese people dropping dead on the street and claiming how deadly this virus is, are the same people who are saying now that coronavirus is just like flu and you are safe as long as you are not old or have a chronic condition when their own country is now dealing with COVID19.

That's what happens when we start mixing political partisanship in everyday issues.
I love Russia and China. BUT their government's lack of transparency is what makes people criticize them. Overboard or not, that's why. But you can't say the US and Europeans aren't criticized either. They are. Actually, it's the tendency of many people to criticize and attack everyone else which is a pity.
 

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I love Russia and China. BUT their government's lack of transparency is what makes people criticize them. Overboard or not, that's why. But you can't say the US and Europeans aren't criticized either. They are. Actually, it's the tendency of many people to criticize and attack everyone else which is a pity.
I get you but what transperancy does the west have? The fact that they could tell you what problems are there in other parts of the world and would not for once mention Yellow Vest protests that was happening in all corners of France or the Standing Rock in US? The fact that Donald Trump himself muzzled scientist on Coronavirus to not say a word without his department's permission? The so called "relative low-level corruption" that led to not only disastrous war on Iraq based on nothing but lies, but also in Libya? Did anyone ever question how Switzerland and Belgium continue to be such big chocolate empires without any cocoa plantations in their respective countries? And that's just the tip of the iceberg. I don't want to absolve the east of the problems of its own doing least of all China an its suppression of Muslims in western frontier and its colonial policy towards Hong Kong but what high ground does places like Spain and UK have when they are themselves suppressing the self-determination of Catalonia, Scotland and Northern Ireland respectively.

There is a long standing tradition of treating countries outside Western Europe, US and Canada with great amount of scepticism. It is nothing new. It has been built into the institutions. The thing is what China did in wake of Coronavirus, as the first country, with no reference points and yet came up with policies of lockdown, social distancing are now being hailed as the right thing to do. But China continues to attract so much negativity because at first it dissed all the warnings (sadly that doctor died of the virus). UK, US and many European countries did the same thing even though when though China stood in front of them as a living example. What China did once it realised how grave the situation, shutting down airports, train stations and markets even cancelling Chinese New Year celebration (even building a hospital in 10 days) would have been hailed as a great example of human decency had it been a European country or a country "allied" to western politics like South Korea.

My point was that (in US particularly) there were all these Chinese critics who were going on about saying that this "Chinese virus" is killing thousands of people by the day. People are dropping like flies in markets, streets etc when the virus has come to their shore, it is all about - this is just a flu, no point for panic. We need to think of these problems in more humanistic ways than us vs them. Politicians job is to disappoint us. We can give them rent free space in our head by treating it as some kind of cult where we are with them or against them or acknowledge that lockdown and quarantine are the most affective weapons at this point against coronavirus and also that the people who desperately want business to open are not bad because many people are at the tip of bankruptcy and no income to survive. It is not our liberal sister or conservative father but the politicians who are taking our every day issues and milking it to their politics.
 

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I get you but what transperancy does the west have? The fact that they could tell you what problems are there in other parts of the world and would not for once mention Yellow Vest protests that was happening in all corners of France?
You must be joking. The Yellow Vests protests were all over the news day in and day out. Especially in France, but in other parts of the world as well. And WORSE than that, some alternative media, from France and elsewhere, spread utter bullshit about those protests, as gross as you possibly could without the least knowledge of the situation. Anything to justify the stances of some countries like Russia and China actually, refusing to let that happen, since it's exactly the contrary that happened in France. This world is bored.

I only answer the first line of your post, it was enough of a bad start to me.
 

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You must be joking. The Yellow Vests protests were all over the news day in and day out. Especially in France, but in other parts of the world as well. And WORSE than that, some alternative media, from France and elsewhere, spread utter bullshit about those protests, as gross as you possibly could without the least knowledge of the situation. Anything to justify the stances of some countries like Russia and China actually, refusing to let that happen, since it's exactly the contrary that happened in France. This world is bored.

I only answer the first line of your post, it was enough of a bad start to me.
Yellow Vest was only covered once in US after they are was a leftist outcry. Same thing with standing rock.

And besides where did I "justify the stance of countries like Russia and China"?
 

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And besides where did I "justify the stance of countries like Russia and China"?
Not you, the way some events are reported in this world, can justify strict control of information chosen by some countries. What does the freedom of the media mean when it's toxic to the point of causing riots?
 

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I get you but what transperancy does the west have? The fact that they could tell you what problems are there in other parts of the world and would not for once mention Yellow Vest protests that was happening in all corners of France or the Standing Rock in US? The fact that Donald Trump himself muzzled scientist on Coronavirus to not say a word without his department's permission? The so called "relative low-level corruption" that led to not only disastrous war on Iraq based on nothing but lies, but also in Libya? Did anyone ever question how Switzerland and Belgium continue to be such big chocolate empires without any cocoa plantations in their respective countries? And that's just the tip of the iceberg. I don't want to absolve the east of the problems of its own doing least of all China an its suppression of Muslims in western frontier and its colonial policy towards Hong Kong but what high ground does places like Spain and UK have when they are themselves suppressing the self-determination of Catalonia, Scotland and Northern Ireland respectively.

There is a long standing tradition of treating countries outside Western Europe, US and Canada with great amount of scepticism. It is nothing new. It has been built into the institutions. The thing is what China did in wake of Coronavirus, as the first country, with no reference points and yet came up with policies of lockdown, social distancing are now being hailed as the right thing to do. But China continues to attract so much negativity because at first it dissed all the warnings (sadly that doctor died of the virus). UK, US and many European countries did the same thing even though when though China stood in front of them as a living example. What China did once it realised how grave the situation, shutting down airports, train stations and markets even cancelling Chinese New Year celebration (even building a hospital in 10 days) would have been hailed as a great example of human decency had it been a European country or a country "allied" to western politics like South Korea.

My point was that (in US particularly) there were all these Chinese critics who were going on about saying that this "Chinese virus" is killing thousands of people by the day. People are dropping like flies in markets, streets etc when the virus has come to their shore, it is all about - this is just a flu, no point for panic. We need to think of these problems in more humanistic ways than us vs them. Politicians job is to disappoint us. We can give them rent free space in our head by treating it as some kind of cult where we are with them or against them or acknowledge that lockdown and quarantine are the most affective weapons at this point against coronavirus and also that the people who desperately want business to open are not bad because many people are at the tip of bankruptcy and no income to survive. It is not our liberal sister or conservative father but the politicians who are taking our every day issues and milking it to their politics.

Well in the defense of Western transparency. The people who got fired by Trump are still free to tell who knew what when? They will tell their story in the media and under oath to Congress or in the Courts. Can you say the same in countries where windows seem to jump at doctors that complain or the thought police comes to have a doctor that warned his colleagues? Relatives of people who died of negligence in care homes will have their day in court. And the truth about Iraq and Lybia seems to have come out with the help of the Western media didn't it, as did the debacle of Vietnam. It didn't take more than a few years in each case.

Tell me when the Chinese government is going to explain to their people how 70 years ago how Mao got duped by Stalin into spending China into poverty on Russian weapons and sending 208,000 Chinese to die in Korea? It was Kim that started the war in a bid to unify the Koreas when the UN including the USSR had nominally agreed to two countries. Tell me when the CCP will explain why they continued to send grain to Russia during the Great Leap Forward while 19 million of my countrymen starved to death just to repay the USSR for loans made so that China got the privilege of sending 200,000 to die in Kim and Stalin's little adventure. Maybe the People's Daily or Pravda can help expose that story? Oh wait that's not the media's or anybody's job in China or the USSR is it?

Maybe the People's Daily can help explain what Mao knew and the extent to which he directed the Cultural Revolution 50 years ago? Or how about what kind of deal was cut for Deng and his allies to come out of exile suddenly after Mao had spent a decade trying to kill them off in the Gulag.

And I had no idea the UK is actively supressing Scots in 2020? Are they banning the wearing of Highland Tartans again? Catalonia and Northern Ireland sure but including Scotland is a bit of an overreach.

Pointless nihilistic self-loathing in the west is just as useless as Trump's idiotic triumphalism over shitting his own bead.
 

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Yellow Vest was only covered once in US after they are was a leftist outcry. Same thing with standing rock.

And besides where did I "justify the stance of countries like Russia and China"?
Yankees don't care for the rest of the world overall. Only when in a way involves them.
 

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1st case in FIN was a 32-yo. chinese tourist from Wuhan in 29th of january in Lapland, was hospitalized couple of weeks and cured from the disease...
Not sure who was the 1st Finn to get it...
Ouch, those damned Chinese... 😁

But this is exactly why I would love if an individual or an undertaking affiliated with China was able to put an end to this supposedly China-originated issue.

One poster (I think it was mauriac) has already mentioned the US firm Sorrento Therapeutics which claims that it has discovered 'an antibody that can block 100% of coronavirus infections'. It is basically a cure and the antibody could be used as a treatment months before a vaccine is around.

And now the best part: the CEO of this San Diego, California-based company is a certain Henry Ji, who is a Chinese American.

How great would it be if someone with strong ties to both the U.S. and China resolved the whole issue?

It would be a win-win for everyone. Especially now when there's a tension between the world's two largest economies and with China's reputation at stake, not to mention the pending international investigation into China's role in the pandemic.

Unfortunately, it may be too good to be true and after the initial spike in the company's stock price from $3 to $10 there was a sell-off to $5 as many believe it's just a 'pump and dump' attempt to inflate the company's stock price and then flood the market with more shares, as the company is running out of cash.

A Daily Mail article on this potential breakthrough discovery can be found here: US biotech company claims it's found antibody to block coronavirus

Disclosure: I own some shares in the company as a speculative investment.
 

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First of all Sweden is not "middle of the pack". These are the worst effected countries in the world. Being on this list at all is bad. Whether it is at the top of the list or even at the bottom. That is the most important point.

With regards to Belgium they do have a couple of things that work against them. They are a very small densely populated country in the heart of Western Europe where the vast majority of countries have been hit hard. I am not by any means suggesting Belgium has done well, they transparently have not, but comparing a very very small densely populated country like Belgium with a gigantic country such as the US is like comparing apples and oranges.

Going back to Sweden, simply that they are on this list at all is pretty shocking. They are a very low density population with the highest percentage of single person accommodations in Europe. They are the exact opposite of Spain and Italy where many live in extended families and everyone is touchy feely towards each other. Swedes are pretty cool and reserved people. Sweden is quite simply about the last country in Europe one would have thought would be badly affected by this virus. And yet there they are with a death rate that is approximately 6 times the rate of their Scandinavian neighbours.

As for the US, it should be noted that while many of the European countries on this list have their virus situation under control the US do not and their mortality rate continues to grow. For such a big country that is spread over a huge amount of land that so many people have died there is extremely shaming and it is clear the damage in the US is still ongoing and shows no sign of abating.
Very interesting that the country in the cradle of the EU has done the worst. Really makes you wonder. The other countries surely must have cheated!
 

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Discussion Starter #3,292
An interesting video about major sporting events as vectors for spread of Covid-19.

 

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Well in the defense of Western transparency. The people who got fired by Trump are still free to tell who knew what when? They will tell their story in the media and under oath to Congress or in the Courts. Can you say the same in countries where windows seem to jump at doctors that complain or the thought police comes to have a doctor that warned his colleagues? Relatives of people who died of negligence in care homes will have their day in court. And the truth about Iraq and Lybia seems to have come out with the help of the Western media didn't it, as did the debacle of Vietnam. It didn't take more than a few years in each case.

Tell me when the Chinese government is going to explain to their people how 70 years ago how Mao got duped by Stalin into spending China into poverty on Russian weapons and sending 208,000 Chinese to die in Korea? It was Kim that started the war in a bid to unify the Koreas when the UN including the USSR had nominally agreed to two countries. Tell me when the CCP will explain why they continued to send grain to Russia during the Great Leap Forward while 19 million of my countrymen starved to death just to repay the USSR for loans made so that China got the privilege of sending 200,000 to die in Kim and Stalin's little adventure. Maybe the People's Daily or Pravda can help expose that story? Oh wait that's not the media's or anybody's job in China or the USSR is it?

Maybe the People's Daily can help explain what Mao knew and the extent to which he directed the Cultural Revolution 50 years ago? Or how about what kind of deal was cut for Deng and his allies to come out of exile suddenly after Mao had spent a decade trying to kill them off in the Gulag.

And I had no idea the UK is actively supressing Scots in 2020? Are they banning the wearing of Highland Tartans again? Catalonia and Northern Ireland sure but including Scotland is a bit of an overreach.

Pointless nihilistic self-loathing in the west is just as useless as Trump's idiotic triumphalism over shitting his own bead.
Actually you can only speak the truth as long as it does not get in the way. Whistleblowing has a cost. Most people don't even know Tennis White who was prosecuted by the EPA in 2016 for raising awareness about the environmental corruption particularly in African-American communities. As for Iraq and Libya, people only know about it long after the goals have been accomplished. And even then, they knew nothing, it was white-washed way as a security issue.Thanks to brave journalism by Wikileaks, Chelsea manning laid bare the atrocities has since been brutally tortured first by the Obama govt. then by the Trump govt. and it is a testament to her strength that she had stuck by her principles. Also, needless to explain the torture of Julian Assange, an Australian citizen, who is facing charges in US, on grounds of treason. And Snowden, who blew the whistle about the govt. spying programs has been wanted since 2010. And the many number of Standing Rock protestors mostly indigenous people are in jail for their advocacy. The now known fact that Gloria Steinem, the renowned feminist who manufactured public consent for Afghan war in the name of "women liberation" turned out to be working for CIA in 2001 leaks, in spite of her denying in 1975 that she wasn't. Most people don't even know what the US military does in these countries. George W. Bush and Tony Blair both declared as war criminals continue to enjoy a lavish life and status in their countries.

My point isn't west is bad and east is good. If you read my original post, I clearly wrote that pointing out the hypocrisy of the west does not absolves the east of its own wrongdoings esp. China. My point is that there is a tradition of western powers to gaslight its own people into seeing the eastern countries with suspicion so that they can continue their dirty little work. That they are exploiting coronavirus for political gains just like they exploit every other issue. And nothing makes it more clear that just 5 months ago when the virus was only in China, everyone was chiming that China is lying and that this virus is killing everyone who contacts it to now when the virus's epicentre is the west that its just like flu and nothing more. We can't let such serious pandemic like this one be exploited for instant gratification of politicians of all stripes.

Today, politicians don't even want you to think on your own terms. They will tell you if think this way then you are for the conservatives, if you think that way then you are for liberals. Sure lockdown is very important and is best way to safeguard us against this virus but many are left with no choice but to go out and seek work, re-open their business because otherwise they are left with the prospect of homeless and poverty. All this because govt. refused to help them.

Two things can simultaneously be right at the same time and not. The attack on nuance is the problem. That's my point.
 

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Not you, the way some events are reported in this world, can justify strict control of information chosen by some countries. What does the freedom of the media mean when it's toxic to the point of causing riots?
That toxicity has caused riots in both the west and east. In Russia as well where people were out on the street, mostly university students, wanting to hold Putin accountable for failures.
 

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Very interesting that the country in the cradle of the EU has done the worst. Really makes you wonder. The other countries surely must have cheated!
Many of them have in some sense, in some cases simply because their health systems have been overwhelmed (at least in the initial stages of the pandemic) and they didn't have the luxury of time to check everything. Belgium, like New Zealand, has included all its PROBABLE cases in the numbers it has released, thereby bumping up those statistics quite considerably. It has also tested a far higher proportion of the population than any of its neighbours except Luxembourg, which is also going to result in a much higher detection rate of cases, and therefore a seemingly worse set of results.
 

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Many of them have in some sense, in some cases simply because their health systems have been overwhelmed (at least in the initial stages of the pandemic) and they didn't have the luxury of time to check everything. Belgium, like New Zealand, has included all its PROBABLE cases in the numbers it has released, thereby bumping up those statistics quite considerably. It has also tested a far higher proportion of the population than any of its neighbours except Luxembourg, which is also going to result in a much higher detection rate of cases, and therefore a seemingly worse set of results.
Just got to know there was an Earthquake in NZ. Are you ok dear?
 

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Just got to know there was an Earthquake in NZ. Are you ok dear?
I'm fine. It was a long way away from Auckland, and centred some distance out to sea. I honestly didn't know about it until friends posted on Facebook. That said, it was magnitude 5.8 and thousands of people around the country reported feeling it. The Prime Minister was actually being interviewed live on TV when it struck.

 

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I'm fine. It was a long way away from Auckland, and centred some distance out to sea. I honestly didn't know about it until friends posted on Facebook. That said, it was magnitude 5.8 and thousands of people around the country reported feeling it. The Prime Minister was actually being interviewed live on TV when it struck.

That's how I got to know through NZ pm. Gosh! NZ is o environmentally volatile. But I love Arden.
 
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