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Chionophile
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Re: Check Serena out at 17 playing Graff

Yeah I saw this recently. It's very interesting because you can see that Serena was no where near the player she was to become and yet she won that match against a 29-year-old Graf who was still able to win slams that year.

Despite what everyone says 29 is not old. All the greats of the game still won grand slams well into their 30s.
 

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Rest In Peace, Elena
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Re: Check Serena out at 17 playing Graff

wow i enjoyed watching it :p :lol:

Serena looks manly in 1999 than she is now!
 

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Re: Check Serena out at 17 playing Graff

for starters, it's graf with one 'f'

29 isn't necessarily old, but keep in mind that steffi had spent much of '97 and '98 off the tour due to injury and reconstructive knee surgery. and while serena was no where near the player she would become, steffi in '99 was no where near the player she once was.
 

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Winner
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Re: Check Serena out at 17 playing Graff

Yeah I saw this recently. It's very interesting because you can see that Serena was no where near the player she was to become and yet she won that match against a 29-year-old Graf who was still able to win slams that year.

Despite what everyone says 29 is not old. All the greats of the game still won grand slams well into their 30s.
I wouldn't say she was "nowhere near" the player she became. I mean, 1999 was one of Serena's best seasons and she was already well developed at 17.

Both matches that Graf and Williams played in 1999 were absolute epics. Their Sydney match is one of my fave matches. It's a shame they only played twice.
 

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Chionophile
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Re: Check Serena out at 17 playing Graff

for starters, it's graf with one 'f'

29 isn't necessarily old, but keep in mind that steffi had spent much of '97 and '98 off the tour due to injury and reconstructive knee surgery. and while serena was no where near the player she would become, steffi in '99 was no where near the player she once was.
Oh I saw Steffi for pretty much her entire career and whilst it wasn't her absolute best, she wasn't far off it.

Whereas, Serena was like an amateur compared to 2002-03 Serena.

Besides, what she (Graf) lacked through injuries, she made up for in experience. That was how she did so well in '99.

Having seen this, I can't see how Graf at any time would've beaten Serena in 2002-03.
 

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Re: Check Serena out at 17 playing Graff

Serena was so raw then. I love her aggression.
I see her now as playing how Graf was playing in the later stages of her career. With diminished abilities from her peak, but her talent and her experience placing her head and shoulders above all the other players.
 

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Re: Check Serena out at 17 playing Graff

Oh I saw Steffi for pretty much her entire career and whilst it wasn't her absolute best, she wasn't far off it.

Whereas, Serena was like an amateur compared to 2002-03 Serena.

Besides, what she (Graf) lacked through injuries, she made up for in experience. That was how she did so well in '99.

Having seen this, I can't see how Graf at any time would've beaten Serena in 2002-03.
and i saw steffi her entire career, and she was far from her best in '99. yet, she still managed to beat the entire top ten that year, win one slam and make the final of another. sure, she had experience on her side, but she was certainly a step slower at this point, and lack of consistent match play and surgery/injuries over the previous 2 years cannot be minimized.

having seen this, i can easily see how graf at her peak would've beaten serena in '02-'03.
 

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Re: Check Serena out at 17 playing Graff

Oh I saw Steffi for pretty much her entire career and whilst it wasn't her absolute best, she wasn't far off it.

Whereas, Serena was like an amateur compared to 2002-03 Serena.

Besides, what she (Graf) lacked through injuries, she made up for in experience. That was how she did so well in '99.

Having seen this, I can't see how Graf at any time would've beaten Serena in 2002-03.
Fact peak Graf >>>>>>> Peak Serena
there is no way "peak" serena would be defeating peak Graf.

if serena played in the 90's she wouldn't be winning much slams like she did now imo. Todays era is pretty weaker than the 90's era.(i meant specifically 2002-2003 season.)
A lot of this era is filled hit/miss ball bashing players.(aka sharapova, ivanovic, hantuchova, etc etc etc.) who may win a slam or two but there are fading away pretty quickly. Serena is once again showing why this era is so poor by crushing these poor fluke top ten/slam winners. Henin and venus are the only ones who managed to expose her weaknesses. Now since henin retired and venus inability to win slams on surfaces other than grass, the era is back back to mug era.

yes serena is very good player. if you ask me she and henin belong in same category
are pretty solid slam winners but shouldn't be compared with Graf or navratilova.
 

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Re: Check Serena out at 17 playing Graff

Fact peak Graf >>>>>>> Peak Serena
there is no way "peak" serena would be defeating peak Graf.

if serena played in the 90's she wouldn't be winning much slams like she did now imo. Todays era is pretty weaker than the 90's era.(i meant specifically 2002-2003 season.)
A lot of this era is filled hit/miss ball bashing players.(aka sharapova, ivanovic, hantuchova, etc etc etc.) who may win a slam or two but there are fading away pretty quickly. Serena is once again showing why this era is so poor by crushing these poor fluke top ten/slam winners. Henin and venus are the only ones who managed to expose her weaknesses. Now since henin retired and venus inability to win slams on surfaces other than grass, the era is back back to mug era.

yes serena is very good player. if you ask me she and henin belong in same category
are pretty solid slam winners but shouldn't be compared with Graf or navratilova.
omg that's such a joke! graf would be lucky to win 4 games
 

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Re: Check Serena out at 17 playing Graff

Sam L hates Steffi. So take his attempts at "objectivity" with a grain of salt.
 

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it's just me against the music.
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Re: Check Serena out at 17 playing Graff

Not quite sure this couldn't have been posted in the Maria at 17 thread where it would be on topic. :eek: :eek:

Another thread not worthy being in GM. Blah. And the same thread starter.
 

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Re: Check Serena out at 17 playing Graff

omg that's such a joke! graf would be lucky to win 4 games
Vintage Graf and Seles' pre 1993 would make a mockery of the current generation, they know something that is seriously lacking these days = point construction and how to seriously rally...:worship:
 

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Re: Check Serena out at 17 playing Graff

I dont think the quality of the finals these days are better than what we were getting from seles vs gras such as french 92 or aus open 93....
 

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Re: Check Serena out at 17 playing Graff

I dont think the quality of the finals these days are better than what we were getting from seles vs gras such as french 92 or aus open 93....
I was watching today the Wimbledon 99 final between Steffi and Lindsay. I remember watching it back then thinking it was OK and nothing really special. Watching it today, I thought it was great and was full of winners and great play. Whatever happened in this year's AO and most of last year's GS tournaments completely pales in comparison to the late 90s and early 00's in my view.
 

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Re: Check Serena out at 17 playing Graff

Oh I saw Steffi for pretty much her entire career and whilst it wasn't her absolute best, she wasn't far off it.

Whereas, Serena was like an amateur compared to 2002-03 Serena.

Besides, what she (Graf) lacked through injuries, she made up for in experience. That was how she did so well in '99.

Having seen this, I can't see how Graf at any time would've beaten Serena in 2002-03.
I could easily see Steffi beating her at RG.
 
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