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Discussion Starter #1
Last year, Justine accused Lindsay Davenport during the Zurich event of faking injuries.

I think she was wrong and I really don't know if Davenport was truly injured or not, but that's not the point, she shouldn't have accused Davenport of that and she was wrong.

Their was an unstoppable diatriba about that, never ending of Justine being a bitch, how she dared said that to Davenport, etc.

Even now, 10 months after some Lindsay fans (notably Queenlindsay and bis .. something) keep going on and on about that.

Now, Kim has said exactly the same about Justine, but it was ok, it's Kimmy, "she must be right", "if Kimmy is pissed off ..." "it's the FO incident".

I should remind everyone that when the Zurich incident took place, the FO incident hadn't happened, so it wasn't influence because Justine was regarded as a bad sportmanship or whatever.

Interesting enough, Lindsay Davenport herself accused Steffi Graf of faking injuries, but Lindsay is regarded as another player that can do no wrong so it was overlooked.

double standards? nah
 

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Fingon said:
Last year, Justine accused Lindsay Davenport during the Zurich event of faking injuries.

I think she was wrong and I really don't know if Davenport was truly injured or not, but that's not the point, she shouldn't have accused Davenport of that and she was wrong.

Their was an unstoppable diatriba about that, never ending of Justine being a bitch, how she dared said that to Davenport, etc.

Even now, 10 months after some Lindsay fans (notably Queenlindsay and bis .. something) keep going on and on about that.

Now, Kim has said exactly the same about Justine, but it was ok, it's Kimmy, "she must be right", "if Kimmy is pissed off ..." "it's the FO incident".

I should remind everyone that when the Zurich incident took place, the FO incident hadn't happened, so it wasn't influence because Justine was regarded as a bad sportmanship or whatever.

Interesting enough, Lindsay Davenport herself accused Steffi Graf of faking injuries, but Lindsay is regarded as another player that can do no wrong so it was overlooked.

double standards? nah
Where would the double standard lie, just with Davenport fans??
 

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Several reasons.

Justine was never known as "the nicest player on tour," or the friendliest. She is just not known as that, while Kim is. Everyone proclaims how nice Kim is, that's all you hear from Shriver and Mary Joe. She has more credibility towards her word than Justine, because people respect her more.

Justine, in many eyes, seems a little sneeky. First, it's the cramps in Australia against Lindsay, the first meeting between the two after the alleged faked cramps. Maybe payback??

Then the Serena incident. Not fessing up to something she did wrong.

And now this. Justine did not look hampered one bit, and didn't even look in pain, yet, she takes an injury time out after dropping the first set. Very suspicious. I mean, it hurts inly when you lost the first set?? Yet, it didn't seem to bother her for the rest of the match either. Gamesmanship is brought up now, because of past occurences with her. She didn't look hurt before or after, but, had these past things that happened in other matches not taken place, I doubt this would even be a subject now, but it did, and it looks suspicious.

Now, I'm not agreeing with either, but that's just how it looks. It looks fishy.
 

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Fingon said:
Last year, Justine accused Lindsay Davenport during the Zurich event of faking injuries.

I think she was wrong and I really don't know if Davenport was truly injured or not, but that's not the point, she shouldn't have accused Davenport of that and she was wrong.

Their was an unstoppable diatriba about that, never ending of Justine being a bitch, how she dared said that to Davenport, etc.

Even now, 10 months after some Lindsay fans (notably Queenlindsay and bis .. something) keep going on and on about that.

Now, Kim has said exactly the same about Justine, but it was ok, it's Kimmy, "she must be right", "if Kimmy is pissed off ..." "it's the FO incident".

I should remind everyone that when the Zurich incident took place, the FO incident hadn't happened, so it wasn't influence because Justine was regarded as a bad sportmanship or whatever.

Interesting enough, Lindsay Davenport herself accused Steffi Graf of faking injuries, but Lindsay is regarded as another player that can do no wrong so it was overlooked.

double standards? nah
Kim's a better troller than Justine, troof!
 

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Fingon, you should realise that Zurich was the turning point or rather the stepping stone for Justine where she could prolly test her faking skills :rolleyes: but she escaped the aussie that time however she didn't get lucky at french and that's prolly where everything gets worse.... she's just a bitch...
 

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I take it you have a point to all this Fingon? Surely you are not trying to start anything here since that is not your style.........
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Jakeev said:
I take it you have a point to all this Fingon? Surely you are not trying to start anything here since that is not your style.........

no, but really, I did think that Justine was wrong, but also Lindsay was wrong, and Kim was wrong.

if you think Justine was wrong you have to admit the other two were.

If you think Kim or Lindsay were right then Justine was right.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
bis2806 said:
Fingon, you should realise that Zurich was the turning point or rather the stepping stone for Justine where she could prolly test her faking skills :rolleyes: but she escaped the aussie that time however she didn't get lucky at french and that's prolly where everything gets worse.... she's just a bitch...
what she said in Zurich was wrong, but your beloved Lindsay had said the same about Steffi Graf.

Plus the Aussie, you keep saying she was faking but you don't have anything to back it up, I could say Lindsay was faking in Zurich with exactly the same base.

You just assumed she was faking and built your whole case on that. You were upset because she offended your beloved Lindsay and just assumed she would fake an injury.
 

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Fingon said:
if you think Justine was wrong you have to admit the other two were.

If you think Kim or Lindsay were right then Justine was right.
Not really.

There is no proof that Lindsay faked anything, so, her accusations were wrong.

HOWEVER, Justine has been caught on tape with bad sportsmanship, and she has been called out on it. With this proof, all of her past "shaky" moments or past injuries out of the blue, as well as future injuries, will be called out upon. She will be forever haunted by the hand incident. The fact that she also believes she did nothing wrong doesn't sit well with many either.

My point being, Justine didn't have a case against Lindsay, but Kim does have a case against Justine.
 
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I think why Kim was upset about this is because Justine did this also once before in Berlin. I don't remember exactly what point in the match justine called for an injury timeout, but I remember us on the ESPN board joking that Justine was once again using an injury timeout to get her opponent of their game. That was the mathc that Kim blew the 4 match points, and then obviously lost. Also the whole FO bad sportsmanship thing.
 

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seriously because the FO 2003 was justines first grand slam in her career it will haunt her for her whole career simply because it's her first grand slam. winning a grand slam hugely boosts a players confidence and it is believed justine cheated to get through thus her career started out by cheating so it's like her whole carer never should have happened. this is not my opinion, i didn't see it happen and i plan on never seeing it but this is what some people COULD think. (and please i don't want to piss of justine fans or anyone)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
VeNuS FoReVeR said:
Justine was never known as "the nicest player on tour," or the friendliest. She is just not known as that, while Kim is. Everyone proclaims how nice Kim is, that's all you hear from Shriver and Mary Joe. She has more credibility towards her word than Justine, because people respect her more.
Ha, it's important who says things, facts be damned.
Justine, in many eyes, seems a little sneeky. First, it's the cramps in Australia against Lindsay, the first meeting between the two after the alleged faked cramps. Maybe payback??
alleged faked cramps? by who? by some bitter posters that just assumed if she was cramping after a 3 hours playing on the sun she was faking?

maybe payback? what does it mean? you are assuming Justine wanted revenge and faked the cramps? while she was serving 7-7? why not before? So, people just build a case based on nothing, and I repeat, the fo incident hadn't happened then. They just assumed she was faking with no evidence and she was accused and condemned for that, very fair really :rolleyes:

Then the Serena incident. Not fessing up to something she did wrong.
she was wrong, however, it was blown out of proportions.
And now this. Justine did not look hampered one bit, and didn't even look in pain, yet, she takes an injury time out after dropping the first set. Very suspicious. I mean, it hurts inly when you lost the first set?? Yet, it didn't seem to bother her for the rest of the match either. Gamesmanship is brought up now, because of past occurences with her. She didn't look hurt before or after, but, had these past things that happened in other matches not taken place, I doubt this would even be a subject now, but it did, and it looks suspicious.
she said the blisters were burning and she needed to reaccomodate the tapes, she didn's pretend she couldn't play of anything, and tha's within the rules.

Are we going to question any player that takes a medical time out? Serena did it at the Australian Open, against Kim and it didn't seem to bother Kim then (and I am not accusing Serena of anything, she, like Justine was acting within the rules). So, if the player is not limping or in pain then it's a fake? then Lindsay's injury at Zurich must be considered fake as well because she won the match and played the final the next day.
Now, I'm not agreeing with either, but that's just how it looks. It looks fishy.
again, it's how it looks based on preconceptions, and on players' images, facts be damned.
 

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hey wasn't davenport the first person to accuse justine of faking injuries? and she also said that about steffi?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
VeNuS FoReVeR said:
Not really.

There is no proof that Lindsay faked anything, so, her accusations were wrong.

HOWEVER, Justine has been caught on tape with bad sportsmanship, and she has been called out on it. With this proof, all of her past "shaky" moments or past injuries out of the blue, as well as future injuries, will be called out upon. She will be forever haunted by the hand incident. The fact that she also believes she did nothing wrong doesn't sit well with many either.

My point being, Justine didn't have a case against Lindsay, but Kim does have a case against Justine.

so let me see if I understand.

let's say a person steals an orange, and is caught in the act.

Then somebody is killed, the thief is guilty because he did something wrong before?

Nobody, and I mean nobody in this world is perfect, not even Kim, everyone has done something regretably, whether caught or not, that doesn't imply that everything they say/do is wrong, because in that case the whole human race should be in doubt.

Kim has a case against Justine because of what Justine did against another player in another tournament? give me a break. Justine might have been caught in tape with bad sportmanship but in this case, what the tape shows is that she did have blisters, but again, it's about what happened before and the image that everyone has, Kim can't be wrong and Justine can't be right, that's the assumption.

I just wanted to confirm the double standard, I honestly don't feel I'll be posting here much longer because the level of hypocrissy and non-sense really doesn't make it a pleasant place for me anymore.

Really, people that judge something based on their prejudices are not the kind of people I like to interact with.

Plus, I am sick of seeing 300,000 post on how bad Justine is and how wonderful Kim and Lindsay are, when I know that it's far from the true, this place has become a complete joke and I honestly think the level is as low as you can get.
 

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Lindsay is not the sort of person who would just go round complaining if it hadn't been really true.... So what if she's acccused Steffi before??? Lindsay was prolly right after all... and with all this Justine crap, it's totally intolerable coz justine's such a loser...
 

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bis2806, they were just honest questions. i want to get all the facts straight.
 

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Fingon said:
I just wanted to confirm the double standard, I honestly don't feel I'll be posting here much longer because the level of hypocrissy and non-sense really doesn't make it a pleasant place for me anymore.

Really, people that judge something based on their prejudices are not the kind of people I like to interact with.

Plus, I am sick of seeing 300,000 post on how bad Justine is and how wonderful Kim and Lindsay are, when I know that it's far from the true, this place has become a complete joke and I honestly think the level is as low as you can get.
Oh, that's it. You wanted a big, dramatic sendoff :rolleyes:

At any rate, your logic is flawed; the truth is, someone's reputation proceeds them. A thief's reputation is for theivery, not for murder. Those are two different categories of crime.

But Justine has built up a bad reputation for herself, whether you like it or not. That, coupled with her obvious inferiority complex and new confidence-cum-arrogance thanks to a Grand Slam win, is making her quite unsuitable for some fans.

Why should you care? Most of the people who state they have lost respect for Justine say it because of her attitude, not because of her injury time out. You have stated that you don't care about her attitude, so why does it bother you that people don't like it?
 

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I just posted this in another thread. I have to agree with Fingon on this one. First of all nobody on the WTA is perfect(outside of Venus of course;))... . AND...Even though Justine stated and did some things in the past doesn't mean that everything else she does from here on out should be held accountable to her. She did nothing wrong Saturday during the final and just because Kimmie stated her words don't mean they are indeed true.

P.S. I refuse to take anything that Pam and Mary Jo state becuse they ARE NOT CREDIBLE. So them saying that Kim is all nice nice means nothing to a fan living in the real world. I use my own judgement and frankly I think Justine and Kim both can be a bit bitchy. Kim was keeping her feelings all balled up inside. She is exploding.. that is all.

Venus Williams and Seles were the same way, but they have matured beautifully and are great role models. Come on before they won slams they were both arrogant! Kim is no different. Justine either. The only thing I disagree with is some of Hingis's past statements because she was down right rude and wrong and they had nothing to do with tennis.

Honestly, I don't get Kim on this. Sure Justine did and stated some things in the past about players but that has nothing to do with her taking a time out to get a blister retaped on Saturday.

Kim imho is just being a bad sport, I am sorry but The "Saint Kimmie" is wrong in this instance.

She is assuming that just because Justine had a blister and took a time out then after she got it taped she and ran down balls that she was faking it. Now from what I saw on the screen she was clearly hurting. She was also going for her shots to try her best to keep the points shorter.

Nope. Justine just beat Kim and Kim imho underestimated her on hard-courts. Kim is wrong just as Justine was wrong about Lindsay.
 

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Fingon said:
Ha, it's important who says things, facts be damned.
Of course it's important who says things. There is a big difference. Kim is very respected on and off the court. She is not one to fabricate anything or take anything away from her opponent. She NEVER does that.

alleged faked cramps? by who? by some bitter posters that just assumed if she was cramping after a 3 hours playing on the sun she was faking?

maybe payback? what does it mean? you are assuming Justine wanted revenge and faked the cramps? while she was serving 7-7? why not before? So, people just build a case based on nothing, and I repeat, the fo incident hadn't happened then. They just assumed she was faking with no evidence and she was accused and condemned for that, very fair really :rolleyes:
Many feel, not I, but many believe that Justine faked those cramps just to get some payback against Lindsay. They believe that Justine was trying to shift the momentum totally in her way, which actually happened. People were arguing about this incident before the French Open thing, so, I don't understand why you brought that up. Maybe it was unfair for many to judge then, but, after the French, anything Justine has done regarding injuries and cramps during a match is questionable now.

she was wrong, however, it was blown out of proportions.
How was it blown out of proportion?? She lied. She didn't show any sportsmanship of any type, and it's hurting her now. The fact that she also believes she did nothing wrong hurts her as well. People now see Justine as a cheat and liar. And this will always be. She lied in a very crucial moment in the match so it would go her way. This makes everything she will do and anything she did in the past very questionable.

she said the blisters were burning and she needed to reaccomodate the tapes, she didn's pretend she couldn't play of anything, and that's within the rules.
Who said anything about it being against the rules. It was fair and square, but, once again, sportsmanship comes in. She did this after losing the first set. It didn't seem to bother in the first, in the second, or in the third. Do you think blisters feel better as the match goes on?? No, it's only going to get worse. Why didn't she call for the trainer after the second when she won it? Why not in the third?? It couldn't have gotten better if she was in so much pain. It just makes people wonder. It's just strange that is hurt when she was losing, but not when she was winning. It's sportsmanship again, it has nothing to do with something illegal.

Are we going to question any player that takes a medical time out? Serena did it at the Australian Open, against Kim and it didn't seem to bother Kim then (and I am not accusing Serena of anything, she, like Justine was acting within the rules). So, if the player is not limping or in pain then it's a fake? then Lindsay's injury at Zurich must be considered fake as well because she won the match and played the final the next day.
In Justine's case, she will never let the French thing down. They will always question her, whether she is being truthful, or she is lying. That's how it is, and that's how it will remain for awhile.

If you don't understand anything I have written, then, you're beyond help of understanding. I think it's quite clear of why everyone is being so harsh on her.
 
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