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I know this has been discussed zillions of times on the board as well as everywhere where there is tennis. But the recent "Graf the best ever?" debate really made me again wonder about Monica's without-the-stabbing accomplishments. I know some of yous are sick and tired of those "what if" talks. But what the heck, this is one of the biggest "what if"s in tennis and should be kept on discussed for the many many years to come.

Personality, without the incident, Graf wouldn't be reckoned as great a player as she is and of course Monica would have got much more GS titles under her belt. Her best time as a tennis player was ruined by that German lunatic.
 

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now I am in it anyway. steffi would have been seen as greater as she is now. since people would not have made excuses for 71 (of course she had won more but I stay with that number) titles she won

monica would have bashed for not playing doubles even if she had won 30 slams and people had claimed that she is not the greatest because of that. especially people who claim she was on her way;)
 

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........no one will ever know.. perhaps, the number of slams between Steffi and MONICA would have been reversed

but we'll never know..

perhaps Monica would be still dominating now, if it weren't for the tragedy.
 

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if monica had still dominated then tennis had been death. that had not been monica's fault but if the same player had dominated for 12 years with 3 or 4 slams a year then nobody had watched anymore;)
 

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I totally respect all that Steffi has accomplished and she seems like a nice enough person. However, that being said, the fact of Monica's incident has always put Steffi with an aterisk(*) in my mind.
*Would she have done as much if Monica's incident never occured and what makes it worse(through no fault of Steffi's), the assalent was a professed Graf fan.

Bottomline,
Monica was a great champion.
Steffi was a great Champion.

Would Monica be greater than Steffi if not for the incident?
The world will never know. :sad:
 

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Monica would have still had trouble winning Wimbledon, and Steffi may have won as many or more (draws would have been different if Monica had been in the game so Steffi wouldn't have faced McNeil in the 1st round).

Monica would certainly have won the French and Australian 1-2 more times (at least). Steffi was getting better, though, and would have done better than some people think.

I think Seles would have ended with 14-15 majors, and Steffi would have ended with 18 majors.
 

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We'll never know, and the debate is pointless. My personal belief is that Monica was on her way to becoming the all-time great of the game, but who knows? I think it's safe to say that Monica's Slam total would have been higher and Steffi's lower, but you never know. The whole affair was terrible, tragic and woefully handled by the powers that be in tennis, but worse things have happened. And I say that as one of Monica's all-time fans. She was the first player to really capture my attention since Chris Evert.
 

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Eight.

She'd have gotten bored with tennis, retired at the end of 1992, and become a movie star. She never would have won OZ '96.
 

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Once again I agree totally with you Jem. Monica was the first player to really capture my attention since Evert as well. I loved her game and her positive attitude and it was a tragedy of epic proportions what befell her.

There is little doubt that Monica would have racked up a number of French, US and Aussie Open titles, and I think she would have been able to crack it at Wimbledon. I mean she beat Martina there, one of the greatest grass court players in history, so she was certainly capable of beating anyone on grass.

I think that Monica was headed in the direction of being one of the greatest ever, and she is still a legend in my mind. Her record has been damaged though which is a crying shame. There are many great tennis historians, analysts, players and commentators who think that Monica was destined to be one of the all time greats but for the stabbing.

Anyway, we shall never know, and that makes me sad. I just hope Monica is happy with her life when she retires from tennis. She deserves the best, she has been so gracious considering all she has been through. An inspiration to me and millions more.
 

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isnt this another of those "bullshit" threads I keep hearing so much about.
 

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"There is little doubt that Monica would have racked up a number of French, US and Aussie Open titles, and I think she would have been able to crack it at Wimbledon. I mean she beat Martina there, one of the greatest grass court players in history, so she was certainly capable of beating anyone on grass."


There is doubt that she'd rack up several more French and A.O., but there is def. doubt about the US Open, and surely Wimbledon.

I think the Grand Slam totals wouldn't be as lopsided, but Steffi would probably have more. Monica missed 10 slams, Steffi won six of those. Take away those six and Steffi's total still stands at 16, I find it hard to believe she wouldn't have won at least 3 of the six which gives her 19. Any results after 95 US Open stand. I'd say Monica would have around 15-16 slams.

Even a fit and playing out of her mind Monica got her clock cleaned by Venus Williams (Acura Classic).
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DA FOREHAND said:
"There is little doubt that Monica would have racked up a number of French, US and Aussie Open titles, and I think she would have been able to crack it at Wimbledon. I mean she beat Martina there, one of the greatest grass court players in history, so she was certainly capable of beating anyone on grass."


There is doubt that she'd rack up several more French and A.O., but there is def. doubt about the US Open, and surely Wimbledon.

I think the Grand Slam totals wouldn't be as lopsided, but Steffi would probably have more. Monica missed 10 slams, Steffi won six of those. Take away those six and Steffi's total still stands at 16, I find it hard to believe she wouldn't have won at least 3 of the six which gives her 19. Any results after 95 US Open stand. I'd say Monica would have around 15-16 slams.

Even a fit and playing out of her mind Monica got her clock cleaned by Venus Williams (Acura Classic).
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You're assuming that if Monica wasn't stabbed, that 1995 & 1996 would have played like they did after the stabbing. Monica with no stabbing could have dominated those years, she wouldn't have been making a "comeback". So Steffi won more then the 6 due to the stabbing, she won 10 (I'm taking off the 1999 one because it was too further down the line). Monica had a shot at dominating at least between 1993-1996 with no stabbing.
 

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Monica would have burnt herself out and turned her attentions to Curling of which she would be 3 time Olympic Champion and 5 time world champion - I swear I saw it in the tea leaves this morning!
 

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selesrules - Has any player dominated for 5-6 years?? People are acting like Monica would have dominated from 1993-1996 like she was doing before the stabbing (which would mean she dominated 1991-1996). Navratilova had a time in the early 80s when Austin took over at #1, Graf had a period in the early 90s when she fell off, Hingis fell off in the late 90s, Serena and Venus are having physical problems now, etc.

The reality is that it's hard for players to dominate for years, and it's not really happened before (not in consecutive years). Other players catch up, bodies get injured/worn down, etc. It's unlikely Seles could have kept up her level - and that other players wouldn't have gotten better. Steffi got better as a player in the mid-90s, Mary Pierce began playing some good tennis, Hingis started coming along, Arantxa became better, Conchita became better, etc.

It's hard to know how draws would have played out to know who would have played whom, and when. Hell, Conchita might have won more majors (at least the French) had Seles not gotten stabbed (and draws been different or something).

Seles would have won more majors than she has now, no question...but it's hard to know how many more. There are too many other factors that come into play.
 

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DA F - Steffi might have won 3 of those 6, and then she might have won some others she lost. If Seles were around, Steffi wouldn't have drawn Loru McNeil 1st round at Wimbledon and might have won the 1994 Wimbledon. Her back might not have been hurt at the Open, and Steffi might have won that Open. Who knows.

People act like Steffi gained from the stabbing - and she likely did - but the biggest benefactor from the stabbing was Arantxa. No way she wins the U.S. Open with both Seles and Graf in the draw.
 

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She would have won 50 GS titles in her career and would have been going into this years US Open as defending Champion. Infact she never would have lost another tennis match again. If she hadn't have been stabbed the last time she would have lost would have been February 1993. Martina Hingis would have been a never-was-been, Venus and Serena would have given up long ago. Infact in some smaller tournaments Monica would have been the only person to enter cos the other players thought "why bother? we wont win!" Steffi would still be playing out of bitterness... Infact sometimes in the locker room just as she slammed her racket into the wall she could be heared to cry "I'll get you my pretty and your little dog too" cos you know... Monica loves her Ariel.

And Monica wouldn't have stopped there! She would have gone to Hollywood and would have won at least 2 Academy Awards already... One for her role in Shakespere In Love and the other for her touching performance in The Hours. She really would have been the in-demand actress of the moment. Oh and she would have had a record deal as well... Infact her debut album "Jagged Little Ball" would have sold almost 30 million copies. She would take regular vacations to Bali with her personal assistent Jennifer Capriati... She used to be a tennis player too but never bothered to come back cos she knew Monica would be too hard to beat.

And as for Monica's private life well... She would have always been very secretive about it but she would have been married to Brad Pitt by now but not before she had torrid trysts with George Clooney and Johnny Depp.

That's what I think would have happened and how many she would have won.
 

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he you can say a lot about steffi but she was never a dog hater, this woman is known to take every dog home she sees walking on the street;)
 
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