Tennis Forum banner

3501 - 3520 of 3544 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
29,607 Posts
You have experienced the destructive force of nationalism in your country in a way thankfully few others here have, and it frankly confounds me that after such experiences you encourage such nationalism to grow elsewhere. I'm sorry but that is something I have never been able to comprehend about you and it has contributed hugely to my personal regard for you as a person.
You are so wrong about everything you write. You don't understand what nationalism is. Your disregard of the lives lost in the war disgusts me. You are on the wrong side.
 

·
All I want for Christmas is EU
Joined
·
32,745 Posts
You are so wrong about everything you write. You don't understand what nationalism is. Your disregard of the lives lost in the war disgusts me. You are on the wrong side.
It is not disregard for lives lost. It is the opposite. Read a history book sometime. Nationalism kills.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,043 Posts
Fantastic to see people celebrating that we have left the EU. That after three and a half years of Remoaners using every trick in the book to sabotage and reverse the result that what we were promised about implementing the result of that vote has been done. We who voted to leave have endured Remoaners calling us "far right racists" or if we are not that we are "too thick too understand" or "too old to be allowed the vote" coupled with the "wish old people who voted Brexit would just die off". So it's great to watch people celebrating that their democratic vote in that referendum is being carried out as we were promised.

The celebrations are that we have finally left the EU. What they voted for has finally been done after three and a half years of people trying to stop it. They are not about "rubbing it in" to people who voted to Remain.

I never ever believed during that referendum campaign that the side that lost would behave in such a disgraceful way as Remoaners have to reverse the result. Note that I say Remoaners and do not include the very many Remainers who voted to Remain but have not tried to reverse the vote and demonise everyone who campaigned or voted to Leave.

Of course the next part is the talks with the EU the next 11 months. But that's a different story. This is going to be difficult. But that's something for another post in this thread.

Prime Minister David Cameron
Chatham House Speech
10 November 2015

It will be your decision whether to remain in the EU on the basis of the reforms we secure or whether we leave. Your decision. Nobody else’s. Not politicians. Not parliament. Not lobby groups. Not mine. Just you. You the British people will decide. At that moment you will hold this country’s destiny in your hands. This is a huge decision for our country. Perhaps the biggest we will make in our lifetime. And it will be the final decision. So to those who suggest that a decision in the referendum to leave would merely produce another stronger renegotiation and then a second referendum in which Britain could stay – I say think again.

The renegotiation is happening right now. And the referendum that follows will be a once in a generation choice. An IN or OUT referendum. When the British people speak – their voice will be respected – not ignored. If we vote to leave – then we will leave. There won’t be another renegotiation and another referendum.
 

·
All I want for Christmas is EU
Joined
·
32,745 Posts
from "international sports" :ROFLMAO:

You have no idea about scholarship, do you?
Okay, that was a bad choice of an article. I will acknowledge that. There are many better ones. Would you like some others? Or perhaps you would like to provide me with an article explaining how nationalism leads to peace. That could be amusing actually.

Of course nationalism had nothing to do with the Balkan wars. Or with WW2 or with WW1. Is that what you believe?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
64,430 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
29,607 Posts
70 years of peace?
The armies of EU Member States are currently involved in military conflicts around the world.

Also, this article:

So, Chris is basically repeating the words of David Cameron? LOL What a sweetheart!

The history of EU-style multinational federations imposed by an elite from above in Europe is not a happy one. From the frayed patchworks of the Holy Roman and Hapsburg Austrian Empires, down to the collapse of Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union, they have invariably ended in bloody chaos, and then the peace and quiet of the graveyard.

Not for nothing did a bemused Mikhail Gorbachev – and as the man who presided over the dissolution of Russia's "evil empire" he should surely know – say that the most puzzling development in Europe over the past decade was the determination of the EU's leaders to reconstruct the Soviet Union, a failed state if there ever was one, on the soil of western Europe.

Gorbachev was speaking before the long arm of EU meddling reached as far as Ukraine, causing that vast country to split in two and threaten war with Vladimir Putin's Russia – a slow-burn crisis that may yet erupt once more into open conflict.

Back in the 1990s, the total failure of EU diplomacy helped speed former Yugoslavia into a brutal ethnic civil war. A fragile peace was finally imposed on those troubled lands not by the EU, but by Nato bombs and arm twisting backed by the Atlantic alliance's military muscle.

So the EU's record at actually keeping the peace is fairly shabby. And in fact it is not the bureaucratic and dictatorial edicts of the EU that have kept the peace in Europe, but the forces of trade, travel and globalisation. Meanwhile, it is the imposition of a top-down dictat from Brussels that is breeding resistance from an increasingly resentful European body politic.
 

·
All I want for Christmas is EU
Joined
·
32,745 Posts
70 years of peace?
The armies of EU Member States are currently involved in military conflicts around the world.

Also, this article:

So, Chris is basically repeating the words of David Cameron? LOL What a sweetheart!

The history of EU-style multinational federations imposed by an elite from above in Europe is not a happy one. From the frayed patchworks of the Holy Roman and Hapsburg Austrian Empires, down to the collapse of Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union, they have invariably ended in bloody chaos, and then the peace and quiet of the graveyard.

Not for nothing did a bemused Mikhail Gorbachev – and as the man who presided over the dissolution of Russia's "evil empire" he should surely know – say that the most puzzling development in Europe over the past decade was the determination of the EU's leaders to reconstruct the Soviet Union, a failed state if there ever was one, on the soil of western Europe.

Gorbachev was speaking before the long arm of EU meddling reached as far as Ukraine, causing that vast country to split in two and threaten war with Vladimir Putin's Russia – a slow-burn crisis that may yet erupt once more into open conflict.

Back in the 1990s, the total failure of EU diplomacy helped speed former Yugoslavia into a brutal ethnic civil war. A fragile peace was finally imposed on those troubled lands not by the EU, but by Nato bombs and arm twisting backed by the Atlantic alliance's military muscle.

So the EU's record at actually keeping the peace is fairly shabby. And in fact it is not the bureaucratic and dictatorial edicts of the EU that have kept the peace in Europe, but the forces of trade, travel and globalisation. Meanwhile, it is the imposition of a top-down dictat from Brussels that is breeding resistance from an increasingly resentful European body politic.
Putin would love this post. Well done.

So it wasn't nationalism that caused the Balkan wars but a failure of EU diplomacy.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40,140 Posts
Omg has anyone seen the interview flying around with Stacey and Tracey... it’s an extreme example but it’s hilarious.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40,140 Posts

This is also another extreme case, I am not saying everyone is xenophobic but we really should not be dealing with this, Brexit does not mean this... its actually sad to see.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,354 Posts
And who is it who is now advocating anything other than peace????

The European Coal and Steel community was founded specifically to stop it's members shooting at each other. Since we highlight their many failures I guess it's only fair the EU highlights where it has succeeded. Obviously nobody is advocating anything other than peace - it's just that historically speaking there is a fairly strong link between nationalism and people doing violent things.

Just last week the government announced the issuance of visas for scientists and academics has been removed from the fuckwits at the Home Office - which should help reduce the impact of Brexit on R&D in the UK. They also announced the rail franchises were to be reviewed with an option that they could be run by local government like the Transport for London model. I imagine Mrs Thatcher will be revolving at a fair old speed, but again this looks to me like a sensible approach since rail privatisation seems to have been to use a technical term, a complete bollocks.
This all fits with my view of BoJo as an ultra pragmatic politician rather than as the Guardian would have you believe leader of the Uxbridge branch of the KKK (I'm exaggerating - slightly).

I would hope when it comes to Brexit negations the government would make what I would regard as equally sensible decisions. The danger in my experience (and as the EU would no doubt tell you) is that when people start waving flags about pragmatism goes out the window.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29,607 Posts
After the collapse of Soviet Union, the only wars were down to Russian imperialistic interests and / or global geopolitical tendencies (Georgia, Ukraine), exacerbated by EU and USA involvement.

It's so very strange strange how Belarus didn't attack Ukraine and Kazakhstan didn't invade Tajikistan. Those are very nationalistic countries after all.

Maybe if one repeats the word "nationalism" enough, something will happen to satisfy one's psychopathic lust for war between foreign countries.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,043 Posts
Remoaners use the term Nationalism and they use it in the most negative way as a threat to our values. It could be used as a positive thing but it isn't nowadays. I think I am very lucky to be living in the UK at this period of time. All those celebrations by Brexiteers are cheering for their country in a positive way. That is a good thing. When an athlete wins a gold medal - he or she might wrap themselves in a Union Jack and do a lap of honour. We do not sneer at them like Remoaners do to Brexiteers and call them Nationalists. There's a Union Jack raised when we have a sports winner at the ceremonies. That's not Nationalism as sneered at by Remoaners. It's a positive being proud of your country (the positive meaning side of Nationalism).

The EU itself is becoming more and more Nationalist. The EU has a flag and it is completely undemocratic. There's a big driving force by very powerful people in the EU for an EU army. All the top positions like the President of the Commission are appointed positions. And before anyone claims that the EU is democratic because we have EU elections - it has never ever mattered how anyone in the UK votes in the EU elections for MEPs. It has never and never will change a thing on what the EU decides to do and what directives and laws they pass. The people have no control whatsoever as to the Leaders and what the EU decides to do.

The claim that the EU is the reason that Western Europe countries haven't been at war with each other since WW2 is just ridiculous and pretty desperate ranting. The claims just get wilder and wilder and more ridiculous by the day. The biggest driver for peace compared to the past is the number of countries living in a democracy. The more true democratic countries - the more likely peace. The chances of 2 countries going to war with each other is very much lower if they are both democracies.

You don't have to be in a big block like the EU to do well economically and not be at war. Anyone would think on this logic that Japan and Singapore must be poor backwater places in a recession and at war because they are not big.

Lastly on the subject of why no wars in Western European countries since WW2 - I don't know how many people realise just how widespread it was believed during the fifties and sixties with the threat from the USSR that there was going to be a nuclear war. People were really fearful of this. There were adverts on the Television and the Radio saying what to do in the event of a nuclear attack the threat was so real back in those days. I am convinced that it was because of NATO that none of this happened. NATO at one time had a policy of first strike of using Nuclear Weapons which might horrify people today but we didn't get a war and the policy worked. The first strike policy came about because of the numerical superiority and threat from the USSR. They could easily have just overrun Germany and move onward with their superiority and we could not stop them with our Conventional army..So NATO told the USSR that if they did that - they (NATO) would retaliate with a limited nuclear first strike. It never came to that. Horrendous but it worked and we've had peace. I mean the same sort of thing with Cuba and Kruschev and JFK.

I think it's pretty disgraceful that nearly every EU country (not the UK) consistently does not meet its commitment for funding NATO. And it wants to create a EU army.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,619 Posts
3501 - 3520 of 3544 Posts
Top