Tennis Forum banner

3441 - 3460 of 3460 Posts

·
Administrator
Joined
·
63,490 Posts
I can see Lisa Nandy coming through the middle of this to be leader.

Assuming it's just those 4 on the list - Long-Bailey/Starmer supporters aren't likely to support each other as their second choice in the ballot and Nandy could well mop up those votes - and she'd actually be a good choice in my opinion.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
8,613 Posts
I agree, Starmer is the most electable as he will appeal to the metropolitan elite type lefite as well as some of the people who switched to the Conservatives. The party didn't seem to care about electability when they installed Corbyn as leader but perhaps reality has finally hit home. Starmer certainly won't frighten the horses in the way Corbyn did but whether he can persuade voters in the north and th Midlands that Labour does now speak for them as well as for woke north London lefties is another matter.
The thing is disaster leads to the push for change. This last election was a disaster for Labour so of course the voices that they need an electable leader are louder than before. I am kind of surprised Starmer is as short odds as he is though, and he seems to get shorter by the day. The momentum (no pun) seems all behind his campaign while the most likely person to stop him seems relatively stalled with her campaign, but it's still early days.

So when the government say:

"The government has insisted it remains committed to continuing the academic relationship between the UK and the EU, including through the next Erasmus+ programme if it is in our interests to do so.",
Boris and the government is called vindictive for cancelling the Erasmus programme because apparently when he says he is committed to it something - Boris is a liar and he means the opposite.
:rolleyes::confused:

Actually I have to say a big thank you to all these Remoaner posters and everyone else who just chanted "Boris is a liar" and that the Leave side lied. So much chanting and wild claims with so little sensible discussion on the actual issues. These "liar" claims accompanied by so much vitriol (e.g. people who supported Brexit were racists and liars or too old or "didn't know what they were voting for". I'm sure that this contempt was one of the reasons why the Conservatives won this election by a huge margin.

The last example before the election on the "Boris is a liar" theme was when he said Do or Die he'd get us out the EU by the end of October. It was the Remainer Parliament assisted by a biased Speaker who made the rules up as he went along that blocked it and then claimed Boris is a liar for saying he'd get us out by then.

Do the Remoaner posters here and the MPs who said that take the people for fools? Did they really think that was a good way to fight an election? Do they think the electorate are stupid? The parties that pursued this "Boris is a liar" tack that he didn't get us out the EU by the end of October must be completely deluded about that being a thing to campaign on and take electorate for fools. And if what Boris said was a lie because he was blocked by Parliament then every MP in every party that lost the election lied when they said "We will ..." in their manifesto. And don't now come the excuse that they didn't lie because they weren't elected so couldn't implement their manifestos if you call Boris a liar because the MPs and Speaker blocked Boris.

Boris is now honouring his pledge to "Get Brexit done" and along with his other pledges on NHS, police, education he has made some specific pledges that he will be judged by as opposed to the froth and made-up claims that "he is a liar" by his opponents.
Anyone that believes Boris isn't a liar is just deluding themselves. This is hardly a remain conspiracy, as Boris being a liar far pre-dates Brexit, after all he was once sacked for lying. Michael Howard goes about on cruises telling people how he sacked Boris for lying. Nick Boles is his former chief of staff. Indeed his current paper has to apologise for his lies. How many former allies of his do you need to say he is not trustworthy until you believe it?

I can see Lisa Nandy coming through the middle of this to be leader.

Assuming it's just those 4 on the list - Long-Bailey/Starmer supporters aren't likely to support each other as their second choice in the ballot and Nandy could well mop up those votes - and she'd actually be a good choice in my opinion.
The sort of people who will vote Long-Bailey dislike Blue Labour/Nandy more than Starmer and are more likely to vote him if they were the final two. Nandy was one of Owen Smith's right hand people which will not go down very well with Corbynites. Nandy is a tough one to predict overall as it's hard to estimate the overall support for Blue Labour within the membership, but I imagine she would far rather a runoff with Long-Bailey than Starmer as it's more likely for Starmer's support to support her than it is Long-Bailey's.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
63,490 Posts
The sort of people who will vote Long-Bailey dislike Blue Labour/Nandy more than Starmer and are more likely to vote him if they were the final two. Nandy was one of Owen Smith's right hand people which will not go down very well with Corbynites. Nandy is a tough one to predict overall as it's hard to estimate the overall support for Blue Labour within the membership, but I imagine she would far rather a runoff with Long-Bailey than Starmer as it's more likely for Starmer's support to support her than it is Long-Bailey's.
I'm not sure - although the points you say aren't incorrect at the end of the day I'd say that Starmer did far more damage to Corbyn's election chances than Nandy ever did.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,915 Posts
The thing is disaster leads to the push for change. This last election was a disaster for Labour so of course the voices that they need an electable leader are louder than before. I am kind of surprised Starmer is as short odds as he is though, and he seems to get shorter by the day. The momentum (no pun) seems all behind his campaign while the most likely person to stop him seems relatively stalled with her campaign, but it's still early days.
They do need to change and one of the things they need to do is to recognise that they have lost touch with their traditional voters. I support many policies of the left ( e.g. strengthening workers' rights, ending privatisation of the public sector, ending austerity) but I don't like what the party has become in many ways. I have voted Labour in the past and would be willing to do so again but I'm not voting for a party that supports a woke, humourless, always-looking-for-offence, ultra PC society and has policies which would be economic suicide.

Whatever, I hope they get get their act together and have an electable leader and sensible policies. This government, with its large majority (and indeed any government) needs a strong opposition to hold it to account.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
63,490 Posts
Whatever, I hope they get get their act together and have an electable leader and sensible policies. This government, with its large majority (and indeed any government) needs a strong opposition to hold it to account.
Well 5 made it to the next stage - I'd be happy with any 4 of the women personally. If I had a vote in the contest it'd go to Nandy

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39,994 Posts
I am backing Jess I think she is respected in the house and she’s a bit more real in my opinion, just don’t want long bailey or Kier... I’d be happy with any of the other three.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,915 Posts
I am backing Jess I think she is respected in the house and she’s a bit more real in my opinion, just don’t want long bailey or Kier... I’d be happy with any of the other three.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I agree Jess seems the most real and the most honest. I'm a bit worried about her comments that she would consider applying to re-join the EU. We need to move on from that now. I know nothing about Nandy - she has flown completely under the radar as far as I'm concerned. Thornberry has a straightforward manner but I do worry that, however many bus driver sisters she has, she looks down on 'ordinary' people - especially those who voted to leave. She also comes over as someone who never thinks she's wrong. I worry that L-B is Corbyn lite and Starmer seems quite smarmy and a bit of a champagne socialist.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39,994 Posts
I just think labour need a new direction, and someone like Jess or Lisa Nandy would bring that.

Emily is real but she already flopped hard on the first day!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,915 Posts
I just think labour need a new direction, and someone like Jess or Lisa Nandy would bring that.

Emily is real but she already flopped hard on the first day!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tell me about Lisa Nandy please. What is she about?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
63,490 Posts
I agree Jess seems the most real and the most honest. I'm a bit worried about her comments that she would consider applying to re-join the EU. We need to move on from that now. I know nothing about Nandy - she has flown completely under the radar as far as I'm concerned. Thornberry has a straightforward manner but I do worry that, however many bus driver sisters she has, she looks down on 'ordinary' people - especially those who voted to leave. She also comes over as someone who never thinks she's wrong. I worry that L-B is Corbyn lite and Starmer seems quite smarmy and a bit of a champagne socialist.
Starmer - was architect of pushing Corbyn's Brexit policy at the last election.

Thornberry - same as above but she does have that human touch - I mean you can well imagine her engaging Boris in meaningless conversation as they walk together to the Queens Speech. Legal fight with Caroline Flint did her no favours while a leadership campaign going on.

Long-Bailey - Corbyn was a lifelong Euro-sceptic but was unable to get a Brexit policy he truly believed in himself, not sure that she would either.

Phillips - Once told Diane Abbot to eff off :) A "normal" person who's the owner of a Great British Bake Off Celebrity special apron.

Nandy - Voted for Boris's Brexit bill second reading prior to the election. Similar to Phillips but a more realistic approach to and acknowledgment of the Referendum result.

Obviously Brexit won't be the issue now that it was then.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39,994 Posts
As Adey said, listened to her constituency and voted for the deal. I feel she’s probably more centre than the others. But Adey summed it up well!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,915 Posts
Thanks both. It sounds like it ought to be between Lisa and Jess - which probably means it won't be. 😛
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,915 Posts

·
Administrator
Joined
·
63,490 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,915 Posts
She's a moron. Seriously? Does everyone here have short memory spans?
I don't have a short memory span but I haven't really heard her until very recently so I don't have much of a picture of her. I agree she lacks gravitas and doesn't seem very Prime Ministerial but how many politicians do have gravitas these days. What in particular has she said for you to deem her a moron?
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
8,613 Posts
Brexiteers probably want to be a little careful just blind supporting Nandy because she voted for Johnson's Brexit bill at second reading given she voted against it when it was put to vote like a week ago. She was one of the main ringleaders of the group planning to amend it, but based on the fact she voted against it last week doesn't seem like she supported the bill as is.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
8,613 Posts
Starmer - was architect of pushing Corbyn's Brexit policy at the last election.

Thornberry - same as above but she does have that human touch - I mean you can well imagine her engaging Boris in meaningless conversation as they walk together to the Queens Speech. Legal fight with Caroline Flint did her no favours while a leadership campaign going on.

Long-Bailey - Corbyn was a lifelong Euro-sceptic but was unable to get a Brexit policy he truly believed in himself, not sure that she would either.

Phillips - Once told Diane Abbot to eff off :) A "normal" person who's the owner of a Great British Bake Off Celebrity special apron.

Nandy - Voted for Boris's Brexit bill second reading prior to the election. Similar to Phillips but a more realistic approach to and acknowledgment of the Referendum result.

Obviously Brexit won't be the issue now that it was then.
The thing is one of the biggest flaws of Labour's Brexit policy was the ambiguity of it, something Starmer clearly wasn't supporting, so it's not really totally accurate to just pin the blame elsewhere. The stories at the time generally believed it was McDonnell who actually had Corbyn's ear who was pushing for another referendum, Starmer was too, but he didn't have Corbyn's ear like some others did. Ultimately the leadership went with the line they did to attempt to satisfy everybody and it didn't work. There were many factors to this, one was Corbyn wasn't really credible as a beacon of remain, indeed one of the issues relating to Corbyn is he tends to be most toxic in amongst hardcore leavers and remainers, indeed a lot of his supporters are sort of ambiguous on Brexit themselves. The problem ultimately being that he couldn't really get either side to buy into him, indeed loads of remainers still voted Tory because of fears over Corbyn.

Unlike Corbyn I don't think Long-Bailey is a lifelong Eurosceptic, she's always supported remaining in the EU I think. I don't particularly have a problem with her, but I just don't see her as someone that will win elections because I don't believe she's a strong speaker to take on Boris and I think being seen as a continuation of Corbyn will be a huge problem to overcome from the off.

I don't really mind if Nandy wins, I quite like her and think she speaks a lot of sense. The early polls from the membership though haven't been good for her at all, they point towards it being a 2 horse race. This is one of those things where you think how much does TV appearances really matter, because Nandy has come across quite well in them, yet it doesn't seem to garnering her much support. I also think she will struggle to get the support of any the real influential figures within the membership, GMB will probably side with her, but the biggest unions are likely to support Starmer or Long-Bailey, and we've already seen Momentum's activists are being told to support Long-Bailey. The odds seem to still think she still has a chance though.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
63,490 Posts
Lisa Nandy and Keir Starmer have now got enough backing and will be on the final ballot.

Jess Phillips pulls out.

Rebecca Long-Bailey and Emily Thornberry still have two weeks to gain backing to join Starmer and Nandy.
 
3441 - 3460 of 3460 Posts
Top