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Agreed.

Davenport

Why didn't she get along with Graf? For whatever reason I recall some bad blood here-nothing major-but the two most definitely were not warm and fuzzy.
This is from memory: Davenport does have a quote in the press and/or a video somewhere in 1999 where she speaks well of Graf's record. However, I think that she also had a quote that was along the lines of "It seemed that every time I won against Steffi, she had an injury." I can't remember if the quote was longer or if the press framed it in a snotty way, but it came across at the time as being unwilling to come up with a real positive take on Graf's career.

Sadly, Steffi did have issues during many of the Davenport matches. At Indian Wells in 1998, she couldn't finish the match. At Stanford that summer, she cramped badly in the third set and may have had the trainer out before losing by a break. At the year-end event in '98, I think there was a leg injury that may have also required work from the trainer. Even getting into 1999, an inside source claimed that Graf was in the hospital almost all night before her Sydney loss to Davenport... I think it was for an illness and/or IV treatment... and then, at Wimbledon, Graf's injury forced her out of the mixed doubles, though she did play the singles final. It would have been nice to have seen those two play matches when both were healthier.

I don't know much about Graf's feelings towards Lindsay, but I did read that she was subdued and deferential after the Wimbledon match in respect to Davenport's accomplishment even though Graf knew it was the end of her time there.

Hope this helps.
 

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This is from memory: Davenport does have a quote in the press and/or a video somewhere in 1999 where she speaks well of Graf's record. However, I think that she also had a quote that was along the lines of "It seemed that every time I won against Steffi, she had an injury." I can't remember if the quote was longer or if the press framed it in a snotty way, but it came across at the time as being unwilling to come up with a real positive take on Graf's career.

Sadly, Steffi did have issues during many of the Davenport matches. At Indian Wells in 1998, she couldn't finish the match. At Stanford that summer, she cramped badly in the third set and may have had the trainer out before losing by a break. At the year-end event in '98, I think there was a leg injury that may have also required work from the trainer. Even getting into 1999, an inside source claimed that Graf was in the hospital almost all night before her Sydney loss to Davenport... I think it was for an illness and/or IV treatment... and then, at Wimbledon, Graf's injury forced her out of the mixed doubles, though she did play the singles final. It would have been nice to have seen those two play matches when both were healthier.

I don't know much about Graf's feelings towards Lindsay, but I did read that she was subdued and deferential after the Wimbledon match in respect to Davenport's accomplishment even though Graf knew it was the end of her time there.

Hope this helps.
Not sure how much of the bad blood between Graf and Davenport is true. Back in the day, Wertheim mentioned in his mailbag that Davenport did not make it to Steffi's retirement ceremony because Graf was the only one who did not wish Davenport when she became world No:1. Doesn't make much sense for that argument as when Davenport won wimbledon in 99, Steffi for sure knew it was her last match there but did not mention it to anyone except a select few like Bud Collins. When asked later why she did not announce after the match, Steffi famously said "It was her day". That response sums up it all.
 

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Had Steffi Graf retired in the early 90s becasue of burning out/Monica Seles catching up in slams she might be considered a transitional champion.

Rollo, have to disagree with that statement. For someone who made it to 13 GS finals straight and won a golden slam, two feats which have yet to be replicated, it would be ridiculous to call her a transitional champion even if Steffi retired in the early 90s.

That said, it is as unfair to call Hingis a transitional champion. It is not her fault if her GS wins for sandwiched between the two last two GS of Steffi's.
 

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Thanks for all the replies folks. Maybe it was blown out of proportion. And even if it wasn't it doesn't make one or the other "bad". In a cmpetitiive environement these rivalries are natural IMO.

Posted by Stef-Fan Rollo, have to disagree with that statement. For someone who made it to 13 GS finals straight and won a golden slam, two feats which have yet to be replicated, it would be ridiculous to call her a transitional champion even if Steffi retired in the early 90s.

That said, it is as unfair to call Hingis a transitional champion. It is not her fault if her GS wins for sandwiched between the two last two GS of Steffi's.
Well put Stef-Fan. On reflection I'll agree with you on that.

Posted by Clijsters 28 I see what you are saying. ASV undoubtably had the better career. However I interpreted this thread as who was the best player in ones opinion, not neccessarily the most achieved. I just feel Gaby at her best is a better player than ASV at her best. During the strong period both won 1 slam, but Gaby was regularly ranked higher and had more success
100% agree that at her best Gaby has the edge. I always thought she would bag at least 1 Frenchie!
 

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I dont like this transitional champion term. It should only be used in the most extreme cases, like someone like Wozniacki if she can even be said to have had an era as while she was #1 it was Clijsters and Kvitova who bagged the most success and real achievements.

Almost anyone can be called a transitional champion. For Seles or Navratilovatards Graf between the Navratilova and Seles era's, and then the Seles post stabbing disaester period until Hingis took over. Hingis between the Graf and Williams eras. For Graftards, Seles between the two Graf eras while Graf was struggling. Serena first after Hingis and Davenport dropped off and before the Henin era, then for awhile after Henin retired. Henin while Serena slumped. Evert after Court's reign was over and before Navratilova got in shape. Navratilova after Evert's dominance was over and before Graf took over.
 

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Agreed.

Davenport's story book win at the 1998 US Open was so inspirational. Linds could have been a permanent fixture in the top 20 on the edge of the top ten. Instead the "dumptruck", as some in the locker room called her, got into tip-top shape.

It must have been some sweet revenge to hold up that trophy and see those she breezed by eat crow.

A few points here and there and she could easily have bagged 5 plus slams.

Two things related to Lindsay I'd like to get more background on are these:

How she told her Dad (he was a star volleyball player-right/) to shove it when he tried to be a typical tennis parent. Did he start out controlling everything like most tennis parents and she cut the strings loose earlier than most? Or did this come due to the divorce of her parents?

Why didn't she get along with Graf? For whatever reason I recall some bad blood here-nothing major-but the two most definitely were not warm and fuzzy.
Sorry for the late reply but I remember that '99 Wimbledon final was very frosty. Afterwards, read a few stories of there being no love lost between Davenport and Graf.
 

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Sorry for the late reply but I remember that '99 Wimbledon final was very frosty. Afterwards, read a few stories of there being no love lost between Davenport and Graf.
Sorry, an overblown story. And fueled mostly by the revelation Graf did not send a congratulatory telegram to Lindsay when Lindsay first ascended to no. 1 on the computer. Huh?!?! Sorry, but typical of women to get riled up over some supposed "slight."
 

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Sorry for the late reply but I remember that '99 Wimbledon final was very frosty. Afterwards, read a few stories of there being no love lost between Davenport and Graf.
Well, I thought the so-called rift between Davenport and Graf was mostly an invention of the press. Any alleged frostiness between them was usually attributed to three things:

1. Graf apparently was one of the (or the only) former #1 players not to send Davenport a congratulatory telegram when the latter became #1 for the first time in 1998. This reportedly irked Davenport. I don't recall Davenport saying anything of the sort in public, however, so her alleged annoyance might have been fabricated by an imaginative reporter.

2. When the press asked Davenport about Graf's health and her injuries during the 1997 Australian Open, Lindsay's response was a somewhat snippy, "She always says she's injured, but then she goes out and wins. I can't believe you media people still fall for it." Perhaps this comment got back to Graf and she was hurt/annoyed/irritated. Never mind that Graf was in pretty poor shape physically in 1997 and ended up missing half the year. (It's also interesting that Davenport, in the last few years of her career, was also permanently injured, and probably would have been furious if someone had questioned the seriousness of her injuries or even the legitimacy of her health concerns.)

3. None of the top 5 players attended Graf's retirement ceremony at Madison Square Garden. Serena and Seles didn't play the Chase that year and weren't in NYC. Venus had some sort of neck problem and chose not to attend, but Richard Williams did attend the ceremony on behalf of Venus and Serena. Hingis had a match immediately after the ceremony, so she decided to skip the celebration of her rival's career and also later complained about having had to wait for the ceremony to end before she could start her match. Davenport's explanation for missing the ceremony was that her leg had been hurting and she had therefore been getting it treated. However, she didn't leave it at that. Lindsay also felt the need to add in an unnecessarily catty aside about the absence of some of the top players: "It was weird. I guess players just didn't feel they needed to be there. None of us know Steffi that well, so it wasn't like we wanted to support a friend."

So there you have it!
 
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Wow, as unneccesary as catty from Lindsay! And nothing coming from Martina at that time can surprise me, she was so obnoxious when her cockiness got in the way. Even if she had a match after the ceremony, the retirement of one of the greatest players of all time was not a meaningless thing,she could have dropped by, or if anything she could have just kept her mouth shut and make herself a service, the same for Lindsay. When you don't have anything interesting or useful to say, you better keep quiet!
But not too many players seem to be abundant in class, especially in the last decade or so.
 
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What years are you considering? 1990-1999 or 1991-2000?


Weighted ranking for 1990-1999:
Graf,_Steffi________________19,31
Seles,_Monica_______________15,47
Sanchez_Vicario,_Arantxa____13,27
Hingis,_Martina_____________12,31
Martinez,_Conchita__________11,35
Novotna,_Jana_______________10,64
Davenport,_Lindsay__________10,31
Sabatini,_Gabriela___________9,73
Navratilova,_Martina_________9,63
Pierce,_Mary_________________8,31

Weighted ranking for 1991-2000:
Graf,_Steffi________________19,07
Seles,_Monica_______________15,70
Hingis,_Martina_____________14,61
Sanchez_Vicario,_Arantxa____14,17
Davenport,_Lindsay__________12,35
Martinez,_Conchita__________12,19
Novotna,_Jana_______________10,86
Williams,_Venus______________9,89
Pierce,_Mary_________________9,44
Sabatini,_Gabriela___________9,38
 

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It is pretty simple:

1. Graf (if we go strictly by results)
1. Seles (if we take into account the stabbing)

3. Hingis
4. Sanchez Vicario (no argument for Sanchez being over Hingis, sorry, to argue so is purely delusional)
5. Davenport
6. Sabatini (more talented than Sanchez and Davenport but not the results)
7. Novotna
8. Martinez
9. Pierce (with 2000s results added career is superior to Novotna or Martinez but this is a 90s thread)
10. Any one of a bunch of players, Navratilova maybe
 

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1. Seles
2. Graf
3. Sanchez Vicario
4. Sabatini
5. Martinez
6. Novotna
7. Hingis
8. Davenport
9. Pierce
10. Majoli
I truly hope you are trying to pull a joke or something. Surely this cant be a serious list. Or maybe you are just placing who you think are the top 10 in chronological order, rather than the order from best to worst, is that it?
 

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Well, I thought the so-called rift between Davenport and Graf was mostly an invention of the press. Any alleged frostiness between them was usually attributed to three things:

1. Graf apparently was one of the (or the only) former #1 players not to send Davenport a congratulatory telegram when the latter became #1 for the first time in 1998. This reportedly irked Davenport. I don't recall Davenport saying anything of the sort in public, however, so her alleged annoyance might have been fabricated by an imaginative reporter.

2. When the press asked Davenport about Graf's health and her injuries during the 1997 Australian Open, Lindsay's response was a somewhat snippy, "She always says she's injured, but then she goes out and wins. I can't believe you media people still fall for it." Perhaps this comment got back to Graf and she was hurt/annoyed/irritated. Never mind that Graf was in pretty poor shape physically in 1997 and ended up missing half the year. (It's also interesting that Davenport, in the last few years of her career, was also permanently injured, and probably would have been furious if someone had questioned the seriousness of her injuries or even the legitimacy of her health concerns.)

3. None of the top 5 players attended Graf's retirement ceremony at Madison Square Garden. Serena and Seles didn't play the Chase that year and weren't in NYC. Venus had some sort of neck problem and chose not to attend, but Richard Williams did attend the ceremony on behalf of Venus and Serena. Hingis had a match immediately after the ceremony, so she decided to skip the celebration of her rival's career and also later complained about having had to wait for the ceremony to end before she could start her match. Davenport's explanation for missing the ceremony was that her leg had been hurting and she had therefore been getting it treated. However, she didn't leave it at that. Lindsay also felt the need to add in an unnecessarily catty aside about the absence of some of the top players: "It was weird. I guess players just didn't feel they needed to be there. None of us know Steffi that well, so it wasn't like we wanted to support a friend."

So there you have it!
Sums it up perfectly, although as a Pierce fan, I feel its my duty to mention that Mary was ranked 5th during the YEC 99, and she did infact show up at Steffi's ceremony. So yea, one top five player did attend the ceremony! :lol: :lol:

But Lindsay and Steffi were so friendly during the Indian Wells exho in 2010. Its clear they have sorted out whatever little differences they had. Also, in 2007/2008, Lindsay called Steffi the GOAT, so...
 
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