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Discussion Starter #1
I was just wondering what you guys thought about the medals presentation to the two pairs?

I saw some response from people who were either neutral, or partial to Jamie and David.

But I was wondering about the reaction of those who favoured the Russian pair, and weren't totally happy about the decision.

I thought that Elena and Anton handed themselves beautifully, considering how unfair all of this is to them.
 

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Well I was really upset the first few days, but now I already calm down. I mean I am their fan, but I don't want to be too involved emotionally. I think thats the problem of many fans. I just try to look at it as an observer. I think the presentation is ok, the only thing I didn't like is the comments made by the commentators. They implied that S/P are the real champions and they should win last monday night had there not been the judging problem. Excuse me. It's a close race. It's not like that without the french judge, S/P would win automatically. By all means it would be a 5-4 split. I am not interested in who should who shouldn't this kind question anymore because I realized that it's impossible to change peoples mind and everyone has his/her own opinions. But the commentators should try to stay neutral and thats professionalism. Unfortunately they let their own emotion take over.
BTW, like I stated in my other post, I feel it's rather strange the french judge didn't come foward before the competition. If she felt pressured, why would she give in to vote for the russians and then complained after? Now msnbc has the latest report about this and to me it makes much more sense.
 

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Becca, I thought Anton and Elena handled themselves very well. Poor Elena can hardly speak English.

The dual gold medal ceremony went very well. But I thought the Canadians should have had their own ceremony. Anton and Elena already had theirs last Monday night. All things considered, the dual gold medal ceremony was wonderful.

Scoring controversies will always exist, as long as the presentation score is the tiebreaker. That's how we got to 5-4 for the Russians in the first place. I've always felt that the tiebreaker should be the technical score. That way the team that skated the cleanest long program would win. Because I knew that the presentation score was the tiebreaker, I felt that Elena and Anton still had a chance to win the gold, even after Jamie and David skated wonderfully and mistake free in their long program.

NBC had to love every minute of this.

P.S. - Oh, and Becca, I don't think the French can count on the Russian judge to give the French Ice Dance team a great score, do you? Especially since the Russian Ice Dance team are in second place and have a chance at the gold. Having the Russian pair in gold medal contention is unexpected. Especially after injury problems. If anything, the Russian judge might try to find a way to give the Russian team high marks. Especially if they skate well. By the way, I thought the Canadian team got mistreated again. The Italian team got tremendous scores after the NBC analyst said they didn't skate that well.
 

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Becca, I doubt if anybody else still wants to comment on this story. All is said and discussed...

on Friday Canadian pair Sale and Peltier did receive gold medals.
But on Monday Berezhnaya and Sukharulidze did win their gold medals. I believe we do understand the difference between 'to win' and 'to receive'..
This is the end of the story.
 

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[trying to bite tongue]

If the judging hadn't have been corrupt, Elena and Anton would have WON a silver medal and they wouldn't even have this chance to RECEIVE gold ones...

:)
 

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I have to agree S/P deserve to win the gold because they simply know better than anyone else how to win off the ice than on the ice.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
i would LOV an answer to this - i am YET to aget one after asking it about 12 times :rolleyes:

To all the people who keep insulting Jamie and David, and saying they weren't as good, that this isn't fair - la la la la la la la la la

What should have been done?

A judge flat out admitted that she had been corrupted. She ADMITTED it! So they should have let a corrupt decision stand? What does that say for the spirit of the Olympics?

I know I won't get an answer to this - because none of you have a solution, cause you know your wrong.
 

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Some say she is corrupted. Some agree and say, yes, she IS corrupted, but in favor of the Canadien pair, not Russian.
 

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Only this

By John Mehaffey
SALT LAKE CITY, Feb 18 (Reuters) - ...
In an interview with the French sports daily L'Equipe
published on Monday, Le Gougne added a further twist to an
already complicated saga when she said judges had been
pressured to vote for the Canadians, not the Russians.
"Since the 2000 world championships in Nice, ISU members
influence judges in favour of the Canadian pair Sale and
Pelletier," she was quoted as saying.
"The pressure again increased in Salt Lake City but I
judged in good faith that the Russians were best."
 

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Some Judges Say Overrule Is a Cop-Out
By Selena Roberts
SALT LAKE CITY, Feb. 17 — Hours before Jamie Salé and David Pelletier received their gold medals in a ceremony at the Salt Lake Ice Center tonight, three veteran judges said there was no provision in the International Skating Union rulebook to serve as a foundation for the awarding of duplicate gold medals.

In its haste to resolve a scandal, the I.S.U. invented a solution based on public outcry and Canada's all-out campaign to turn silver into gold, according to the judges, who are from Western countries and are familiar with the international federation's rules. All three spoke on condition of anonymity.

On Friday, the skating federation declared Salé and Pelletier co-winners of the pairs competition along with the Russians Yelena Berezhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze. It also announced the suspension of one of the pairs judges, Marie Reine Le Gougne of France. That action, the three judges said, provided an easy out. They said that even if Le Gougne's marks had been removed, and the controversial voting in the long program had resulted in a 4-to-4 tie among the eight remaining judges, the short program would have served as the tie breaker. In that portion of the competition, Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze were in first place by a 7-to-2 vote — or 6 to 2 without Le Gougne's marks.

"The Russians won outright, no matter how you look at it," one judge said.

When Ottavio Cinquanta, the president of the I.S.U., announced the decision Friday, he did not refer to a particular section of the federation's rules as a basis for the decision. Repeated phone calls to the I.S.U. to seek clarification were not returned.
To some skating officials, it remained unclear whether there was a conspiracy to deny the Canadians the gold medal, as widely believed, or whether there was an effort to sabotage the Russians' chance at a major title for the second time in the last year.

Over the past three days, skating officials say allegations concerning possible collusion between Russia and France at the pairs event have emerged, as well as accusations of impropriety on the part of Canada.

"There was a bloc for Canada that not only wanted them to have the world championship but also the gold medal," said Shevale Nusuev, a longtime coach and trainer for the Russian skating federation. "The conspiracy is not a Russian conspiracy, but a Canadian conspiracy."

Nusuev pointed to what he said was tangible evidence: the marks. The scores from last week's pairs event paint a picture of a Canadian judge who voted out of line with the majority, while Le Gougne scored the event more consistently than anyone else on the panel.

The misconduct that led to her suspension — the failure to report improprieties before the event — is seen as a misdemeanor by the judges. So far, no evidence has been presented to suggest she changed her marks as a result of pressure. Le Gougne initially said pressure came from the French federation; French Olympic officials contend that it came from judges and trainers on both sides who approached her at a practice before the event.

Le Gougne may have a chance to tell her side of the story on Monday. The Associated Press reported today that she asked the I.S.U. council to allow her to address the members. If anything, Le Gougne has her own scorecard from the pairs event to support her ability to judge clearly.

Le Gougne may have more credibility than other judges who have been under scrutiny at major competitions. In one year, Nusuev points out, the Russian pair's attempt to separate themselves from Pelletier and Salé has resulted in two controversial endings.

Each time, a Canadian judge, Benoit Lavoie, was on the judging panel. At the 2001 world championships in Vancouver, British Columbia, last March, Canada went from third to first. Last week, Salé and Pelletier's second-place finish was only briefly decorated with silver.

Several judges and figure skating officials pointed to Lavoie's marks in the competitions. At worlds, he scored the Russians lower than any other judge and marked the Canadians higher than the rest of the panel in the long and short programs. Last week, Lavoie was one of two judges to place Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze second after the short program.

"Odd, isn't it?" one Western skating official said.

Judges are prohibited from discussing their decisions until after the competition, but Lavoie did not respond to a request to comment privately about scoring in the pairs event. The Canadian Olympic Association was also asked to address Russia's allegations of improprieties by Canada.

Instead of bristling at the accusations, a Canadian official reacted without a vehement reply.

"I think what we have to say is, `Let's wait and see what the internal investigation turns up,' " said Brenda Gorman, a spokeswoman for Canadian Olympic figure skating. "Until we see the results, we cannot react to hearsay. We're not prepared to make a reaction at this time.

"I'd have to say, yes, I'm surprised. But at the same time, nothing surprises me after this past week."

Cinquanta is the one responsible for maneuvering the I.S.U. through the allegations. Not every skating official believes he has been open enough in his investigation. Today, speaking on "ABC This Week," he denied receiving letters that alleged Russia was guilty of improprieties.

"I say that when we were in a position to take a decision, to suspend an individual judge, and we have done it," Cinquanta said. "What is affirmed, that we are in possession of specific letter with specific implication
 

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I'm pretty sure the substitute vote, which would replace the French judge's vote, was by a Czech judge and went the Canadians' way. 5-4 Canada for the long, then. :)

Becca...I think it's time we both drop it. Some people will never accept it but it's quite clear what most of the world thinks. :)
 

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I think the Russians should not have been present. They already got their medals, and to trot them out there for that was kind of humiliating. Do the justice but don't degrade the innocent.
 

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I never know there is an ISU rule to allow the substitute judge to replace a judge who were actually present at the competition.

BTW, if you can't make a reasonable argument, so be it. Don't act like a spoiled brat! Most of the world want this? Are you dreaming?
 

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Tennisfun, puh-leeze. Becca and I have been spending nearly seven full days using very carefully worded rhetorical arguments, without being petulant or nasty. But some of you refuse to accept common sense.

There was a cheater. Without the cheating, Sale and Pelletier would have won. We've tried to explain this all very calmly and logically, but some of you aren't getting it.

So, I'm done with it, and I'm suggesting to Becca that she be done with it too. We got what we wanted -- justice -- and therefore we really don't need to fight anymore. And if you don't think a solid majority of the world don't want injustice caused by a cheating judge and disreputable federations rectified, brother, you are wrong.

Don't patronize me, friend. It'll be over so fast it'd make your head spin. Meanwhile, maybe you should do a search on the tens of posts Becca and I have done on the subject before you accuse me of being "spoiled" or bratty. I think you'd quickly find any brusqueness on our part is entirely justified.

You get the last word, if you want it. I hate figure skating and cannot believe I've spent so much time discussing it.
 

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Do not forget that 5 of 4 judges have put ELENA and ANTON in the first place! And only 1 jugde has been corrupted!
So Anton and Elena trully deserve their gold medal.
I am also happy for the Canadians, justice has to be done, but I like Anton and Elena more. :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
 

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Considering we'll never know who would have won that night, of course Elena and Anton deserve the gold medal. They won it that night, through no fault of their own. .....
 

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ELENA may not speak perfect English, but Jamie or David cannot even say "Hello" in Russian. So, please stop with such statements, which do not belong here. Concentrate on figure skating, OK?:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
 
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