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YThe sex slave trade is so despicable that regular citizens might start questioning why their gov't. even aligns itself with Saudi Arabia IF the media released regular updates on that.
Perhaps. I don't see how blowing civilians to pieces is any less despicable but maybe the slave trade angle would provoke a more intense.

But the US government has cited this issue before. I don't think things are as simple as we often like to think.

https://www.state.gov/j/tip/rls/tiprpt/2008/105389.htm
 

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Discussion Starter #42
Perhaps. I don't see how blowing civilians to pieces is any less despicable but maybe the slave trade angle would provoke a more intense.

But the US government has cited this issue before. I don't think things are as simple as we often like to think.

https://www.state.gov/j/tip/rls/tiprpt/2008/105389.htm
Thanks for sharing this, but the language in that report you linked from the US State Department strongly implies that the Saudi gov't has merely lacked adequate vigilance and controls...as if the black market had cleverly evaded their punishment. There's no accusation, from what AYE read, that the gov't. is directly complicit in the sex slave trade, and all of the current evidence points to that.

As to your first point, it SHOULD be true with people who have a conscience, but Herman Goering called it right while imprisoned at Nurenberg. He basically said that the Americans could rationalize dropping an A-bomb to incinerate a bunch of slanty-eyed Asian children while doing the same to white-skinned German kids would've caused lots of unrest. Yemenis are "them" to many Americans, Muslim "bad guys", so their deaths resonate a LOT less than would be the case with Europeans or light-skinned North Americans. Also, the sporadic reports reflect the 'out of sight, out of mind' mentality
 

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IIRC, some American soldiers were reprimanded because they didn't like the practice of some of our Afghan "allies" busting boy punnany. After all the Baci baci practice of grown men running up in boy bussy is a cultural thing. And aren't all cultures equally valid? :confused:
 

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Discussion Starter #44
IIRC, some American soldiers were reprimanded because they didn't like the practice of some of our Afghan "allies" busting boy punnany. After all the Baci baci practice of grown men running up in boy bussy is a cultural thing. And aren't all cultures equally valid? :confused:
This worthy post arrived in my inbox earlier but I was too busy with work to come here and reply. As an American, you're aware of how certain Southerners use tradition as an excuse to fly a flag that is emblematic of cruel slavery. Here in Mexico, we have our own stupid tradition by which someone can do horseshit-caliber labor--with barely any effort exerted--and yet the person who criticizes that laziness is like a nasty villain because he hurt someone's feelings:rolleyes:. Tradition can get thrown into the septic tank when it violates international law, as with the example you cited above. Even a jungle savage is born with enough of a human conscience to figure out that sodomizing children is morally repulsive.

With some of the world's worst evil, it's often a case of Mental Surrender; that is, the person's conscience bothers him/her at first, so his/her solution is to dive right into the pool of blood with the rest of the mob and immerse themselves in evil. This has a desensitizing effect that facilitates vileness without feelings of guilt, and it's common in the Wahabbism that has spread from Saudi Arabia into Afghanistan and other Muslim countries, not to mention nations with high Islamic immigration. The Saudis, and Wahabbists in general, believe that their warped version of Islam is destined to conquer the world and that they are entitled to do whatever pleases them in dealing with so-called infidels or whoever stands in their path. That means raping virgin women, young girls and even homosexual pedophilia with little boys. Of course, they're content to rape non-virgin women as well, since they're allegedly dirty infidels who deserve it:eek:.

In closing, even though your soldiers are trained to kill, they were still disturbed by the evil they witnessed. That's not the case with the big shots who engineered the whole Afghan operation, though. Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and John Sununu are all sickening pedophiles who go unpunished due to their connections with Illuminati elite and, without a doubt, many of their top lieutenants are still in the Defense Dept. establishment. Although George W. Bush has never been accused of pedophilia, his dad has been implicated in a host of horrific crimes, including child sexual abuse, and Daddy George's three aforementioned flunkies naturally assumed a huge role in his son's regime. Since they, themselves, are sexual abusers of children, it's EASY for them to be indifferent to the child rape in Afghanistan you mentioned or the sex slave trade that the Saudis have run for years. As narrated in a previous post, they've reached a point where their al-Qaeda buddies openly brag about it in broad daylight...with no fear whatsoever of criiminal prosecution. That's why I say that we should at least do our part by informing others for the Yemeni victims' sake. Ideally, it could create enough of a scandal that the traders would have to back off for a while...though preferably forever, obviously
 

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Discussion Starter #45
My recollections aren't crystal clear because I was fairly young at the time and it occurred a few decades ago when I lived in the US, but there was a scandal involving Barney Frank(can't recall if he was a senator or only in their House of Rep. at that point) because his townhouse was at least semi-frequently being used as a whorehouse for adult men to consort with teenaged boys. Barney, of course, claimed that he had no idea that his buddies were doing that and he pledged to rectify the problem right away(probably by finding ANOTHER pedophile whorehouse and maintaining better secrecy). The fact that it made the mainstream media reports AT ALL in that pre-internet age just show you how totally out-of-control that mess was. There were too many boys coming forth and complaining that it couldn't be hushed up anymore, and it would've been too attention-grabbing if 5 or 6 of them suddenly died under strange circumstances.

Barney only received mild criticism from the mainstream media for lack of vigilance and, of course, he got absolutely no legal punishment whatsoever. What stands out, though, is that Barney was at least forced to admit responsibility and take action.....SORT of....and that's not the case at all with the Saudi Arabian government:

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/09/islamic-state-sex-slaves-auctioned-off-in-ukus-ally-saudi-arabia

While I can't offer a rock-solid guarantee for this source of information above, there's an abundance of data from other reliable sources to support the claims, and it's not like we can find any detailed reports or condemnation for this from the BBC or CNN. As punishment for helping to organize a sex slave trade and--undoubtedly--raping its victims, the Saudis receive.......billions of dollars in military aid from the UK and US regimes:rolleyes:, not to mention what appears to be a blanket exemption from human rights violations from the self-styled world leaders at the UN
 

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Discussion Starter #46
Shocking VIDEO: Al-Qaeda-Linked Taliban Hires Boys as Sex Slaves to Deceive, Kill Afghan Police

The video above is just under 7 minutes and, though some might try to argue that it's the Taliban and technically not al-Qaeda, that's no more than nitpicking since the two groups work in unison with the EXACT same Wahabbist mindset and agenda for world domination. As you read the subtitles(which will be necessary for most posters), you'll see that the base criminal mindset is pretty much universal, with pimps everywhere claiming that they look out for the best interests of their 'workers'. As in Yemen and Saudi Arabia, you can also see that there's very little fear of any legal consequences amongst the sex-slave traders, with the boss agreeing to be filmed w/o any image distortion for his face. Though the slave traders probably aren't that much into politics, they're surely aware that they have protected status thanks to their political clients...and that those clients carry favor with the European,American, and Asian factions of the global banking cabal.

If any of you really believe that either Clinton or Trump would make a significant, positive difference in our world or change the festering culture in the US, then you can sit around and discuss that with your good friends like Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. Trump is a power-hungry bully and Clinton is the ultimate political stooge for the global banking cabal. However, that election is the PERFECT pretext for the mainstream media to barely mention a war of aggression in Yemen by the favored Saudis(and completely ignoring it on some days) while the press still manages to find time to demagogue Syria whenever possible: It's selective moral outrage:rolleyes:
 

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It's selective moral outrage
:confused: Of course. It would be impossible to do otherwise.

IMO you had a solid point but are going off the rails on this. You still haven't provided any evidence that Saud is taking part in this. Which IMO is very doubtful. As I may have stated before it just seems like certain people there turn a blind eye to it. And with all the other crap going on the scale of it isn't enough to warrant US attention.
 

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IMO your post is the first descent into stupidity in the thread. Because, even if you're correct about there being misinformation, you offered nothing about what/why. Correct or not, at least the first two posts are people sharing what they know/think with the intent of being helpful.
:lol: Intent of being helpful? Maybe you need to reread the first post.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
:confused: Of course. It would be impossible to do otherwise.

IMO you had a solid point but are going off the rails on this. (1)You still haven't provided any evidence that Saud is taking part in this. Which IMO is very doubtful. As I may have stated before it just seems like certain people there turn a blind eye to it. And with all the other crap going on the scale of (2)it isn't enough to warrant US attention.
You offer what strikes me as a sincere response:hatoff:(unlike some adolescent type who's desperate for attention;)), but I feel that you're misreading the situation in a couple of areas.

1. As Westerners, we're both familiar with the concept of LEGAL guilt beyond a reasonable doubt and--in THAT sense--you're correct that we couldn't convict the Saudi royals in a court of law...but that's not what I'm talking about here, and such a standard is impossibly, absurdly high in this case. We're talking about a despotic country where a woman is forbidden to leave the house w/o her husband or a male relative's accompaniment. Even a male whistleblower would have to risk his life to catch one of the Saudi big shots red-handed on videotape...and then he'd have to flee his home country and live the rest of his life in hiding for fear of retliation from al-Qaeda assassins for daring to expose their Saudi benefactors.

I'm referring to the court of public opinion and common sense, where we have more latitude in placing moral culpability on someone or a particular group.You're being overly generous( to the point of naivete...no personal offense intended) when you trust that the Saudis are merely disinterested in the legal paperwork of prosecuting sex slave traders. Many Asian sex slave traders have already admitted that they routinely provide victims to influential politicians, so is there any sane reason to think that the Sauidis are any different?? Keep in mind that Wahabbists(which is the pseudo-Islamic cult ALL of the Saudi rulers belong to) treat rape to satisfy their longings as an entitlement, especially young virgin children with, apparently, boys being the preference for lots of them. At the most lenient, the Saudis should be charged with criminal negligence in a UN human rights tribunal for ignoring vile men who brazenly shout out their offers in open markets as if they were selling fruit(though, as we've seen, Saudi oil= legal immunity), and it HAS been proven that they fund the terrorist fanatics who are running the slave trade.

2. It all depends on what you consider newsworthy, but I'll take you to England for another perspective on things.For YEARS, there were loads of rumors about pedophiles in Parliament, and well-known alternative media investigators like David Icke had raised the issue for everyone, so it wasn't any complete shock to the British mainstream media once the alternative media was lucky enough to acquire enough irrefutable empirical evidence to expose the MP pedophile network. At first, the mainstream press just released flat, asinine denials and attacked the accusers. Then, after they realized what a large percentage of the British public had tuned into the alternative media exposure, the mainstreamers quickly went into damage-control mode, claiming that there were only a couple of perverts here and there, amongst other attempted BS trickery tactics.

What truly shed a whole new light on things was that certain media bigwigs were ALSO implicated in the pedophile ring, so the mainstream press wasn't just protecting statesmen out of patriotic pride----they were shielding their own people from prosecution. Although I obviously don't blame YOU for this, your own media has shielded pedophiles like Barney Frank, Dennis Hastert, John Sununu, Larry Craig and even Daddy Bush for years. Is that just a co-incidence, or do they look out for their favorite political sons and daughters? Though England is the hive center for freemasonry that incorporates ritual child sexual abuse, there are scores of masons in the US executive ranks as well, which includes the corporate media.

In conclusion, I offer you the assertion that it's definitely NOT lack of evidence that causes your media's disinterest in the Saudi-Yemen sex slave trade. Rather, they're looking after their corporate bosses' alliances with Saudi oil suppliers and, quite likely--as the Brits did and the American mainstream press has also done for years--they're enabling an international pedophile network that their bosses directly participate in
 

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You offer what strikes me as a sincere response:hatoff:(unlike some adolescent type who's desperate for attention;)), but I feel that you're misreading the situation in a couple of areas.
To your points here:

Even if all that is true it to me still makes my case. The "court of public opinion" is often one of the worst approaches to any situation. In fact, it's currently tearing at the fabric of US democracy. When people feel passionately about a situation they often put blinders on and see things only how they want to. Since they aren't doing so knowingly they tend to eschew any facts that don't fit their opinion.

I doubt that I'm misreading the situation. It's something that I look at objectively and at this point I haven't made any conclusions. I keep stating that so far there's no evidence that shows Saudi complicity. You've responded with what amounts to stating that since it's often difficult to get such evidence we should use a combination of emotional response and flights of fancy as our guideline.

As for being cited for turning a blind-eye, I'd posted links to the State Department a few exchanges back. In a nutshell:
The Government of Saudi Arabia does not fully comply with the minimum standards for the elimination of trafficking and is not making significant efforts to do so. The government continues to lack adequate anti-trafficking laws, and, despite evidence of widespread trafficking abuses, did not report any criminal prosecutions, convictions, or prison sentences for trafficking crimes committed against foreign domestic workers. The government similarly did not take law enforcement action against trafficking for commercial sexual exploitation in Saudi Arabia, or take any steps to provide victims of sex trafficking with protection. The Saudi government also made no discernable effort to employ procedures to identify and refer victims to protective services
 

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Discussion Starter #51
To your points here:

Even if all that is true it to me still makes my case. The "court of public opinion" is often one of the worst approaches to any situation. In fact, it's currently tearing at the fabric of US democracy. When people feel passionately about a situation they often put blinders on and see things only how they want to. Since they aren't doing so knowingly they tend to eschew any facts that don't fit their opinion.

I doubt that I'm misreading the situation. It's something that I look at objectively and at this point I haven't made any conclusions. I keep stating that so far there's no evidence that shows Saudi complicity. You've responded with what amounts to stating that since it's often difficult to get such evidence we should use a combination of emotional response and flights of fancy as our guideline.

As for being cited for turning a blind-eye, I'd posted links to the State Department a few exchanges back. In a nutshell:
Well, I never said that we should resort to emotionalism or flights of fancy as you imply above. On the contrary, I welcome dissenting opinion because that legitimizes the sincerity of the search for truth. As long as people are open to opinions that don't concur with theirs, there's no danger AT ALL in discussing difficult topics. The personal problems you refer to pertain to individuals who refuse to consider anything that makes them uncomfortable; it's not a systemic problem with debating in general

In this case, I expect that you're simply unaware of all of the facts of this case, as there's an ABUNDANCE of compelling circumstantial evidence for me to make my claims.

1. We have the testimonies of traders who HAVE provided captive prostitutes for the Saudi royal family.

2. We have the testimonies of victims themselves who were fortunate enough to escape the country(though they were hardly fortunate in getting raped).

3. We're talking about a crime that has been documented as going on right out in the open; therefore, it would be no sweat for the police to move in and capture the traders...IF they were allowed to do so.

4. It has been proven that the people I'm accusing as complicit are already collaborating with the sex-slave traders on OTHER illegal activities; i.e., terrorism and human rights violations, so it's a bit naive to argue that they participate in ONE criminal conspiracy yet have nothing to do with the other, despite being the primary financial backers of the terrorist group.

Pov, perhaps you were previously unaware of points #1 and 2 above, which is understandable because they're not common knowledge. However, it would be bizarre if you STILL maintained that there was insufficient grounds for accusation, even with the additional evidence. It's not as if we could ever catch a secret audiotape in which a Saudi leader came out and said, verbatim, "Yes, every single member in our royal family has an active role in organizing the sex-slave trade here." Even if we were lucky enough to catch 3 or 4 of them red-handed and expose them via alternative media, your gov't. and the UN would pretend that they were random, isolated perverts...and that there was no large-scale problem
 

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Pov, perhaps you were previously unaware of points #1 and 2 above
I was. And so I'll ask again to please provide that evidence. Links of course. Also bear in mend that those may or may not show overall complicity. If a few princes (there's more than 7,000) commit an act it doesn't mean it's officially sanctioned. But yeah I'll have a look if you provide the sources.

Also, as this is an issue that you feel so strongly about what are you doing to help it get the attention and maybe further investigation that you think it warrants?
 

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Discussion Starter #53
I was. And so I'll ask again to please provide that evidence. But yeah I'll have a look if you provide the sources.
Preparing it for you now...will send it via PM
 

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Discussion Starter #54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuCyczEqtPk

Here's a 2-minute, 15-second video that's short enough for even the Facebook Generation to watch and digest.It would be quite easy to read and/or watch more detailed reports for anyone motivated to do so.

Basically, this helps to expose the BS justification by the UN, UK and US officials that only a few rogue Saudi princes have funded ISIS(of course, both the UK and US have armed and trained them as well). Now we can see that it's fixed governmental policy on the Saudis' part, and can anyone with an ounce of common sense argue that it's any different with al-Qaeda(that is, government planning, as opposed to mere private investors)? To take it a step further, is it at all scandalous to suggest that the Saudis not only fund and arm al-Qaeda's operations but also provide a wealthy client base for the sex-slave trade?

The eagerness of the highest-ranking Saudi princes--and even their kings, on occasion--to enslave women has been WELL documented, but some of them don't limit themselves to adults, and we don't know how many actually PREFER children(girls OR boys). Because homosexuality is punishable by death under Wahabbist doctrine, male sex slaves are particularly mistreated so that the prince in question can avoid exposure and likely execution for bringing scandal upon the royal family. Gays are usually the ones targeted for such enslavement yet there have been cases when Saudi big shots have simply captured hetero males whom they were attracted to. These are despicable human rights violations, in either case
 

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Discussion Starter #57
I'll happily admit that Putin's lapdog has no credibility with me.
It's reasonable to distrust journalists who have shown partiality in the past, but would it be fair to ignore empirical evidence from MSNBC even if outside experts could authenticate its legitimacy? Like I've said, if it's rainy season and a frequent liar tells me that it's raining right now, I'm not gonna assume he's wrong and ignorantly walk outside into a deluge because of some unrelated past incidents:shrug:

There's already a MOUNTAIN of irrefutable evidence linking the Saudis to al-Qaeda and ISIS, and it's beyond dispute that many top US officials--both the Clintons(and other Democrats) and LOADS of Repùblicans--have had close ties to those two propped-up terrorist groups. So it wouldn't be any big shock at all if the accusations in the video above proved true; rather, it would be a logical conclusion to the whole mess. You'll see a whole lot more on this in the future, 'pov', and it WON'T all come from sources you've distrusted.
 

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There's already a MOUNTAIN of irrefutable evidence linking the Saudis to al-Qaeda and ISIS, and it's beyond dispute that many top US officials--both the Clintons(and other Democrats) and LOADS of Repùblicans--have had close ties to those two propped-up terrorist groups. So it wouldn't be any big shock at all if the accusations in the video above proved true; rather, it would be a logical conclusion to the whole mess. You'll see a whole lot more on this in the future, 'pov', and it WON'T all come from sources you've distrusted.
IMO it would be close to impossible for some Sauds to not have links to a-Q and Daesh. It's a huge family. The points are what sort of links, who, how deep etc. There's a tendency to gloss over details once one has a cause. But as example if I'm friends with Billy Bob and it happens that his brothers are all deep into organized crime, that doesn't mean anything is wrong with our friendship. Now extend that to Billy Bob having thousands of cousins with a few dozen being criminals.

So unless there's a verifiable link to the specific individuals who are linked to terrorist groups it's a :shrug:
 

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And who's lapdog do you trust?
:confused: Obviously once I can see that someone is a lapdog, my level of trust of their actions and info depends on how I feel about the goals of whoever is driving.
 

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Discussion Starter #60
IMO it would be close to impossible for some Sauds to not have links to a-Q and Daesh. It's a huge family. The points are what sort of links, who, how deep etc. There's a tendency to gloss over details once one has a cause. But as example if I'm friends with Billy Bob and it happens that his brothers are all deep into organized crime, that doesn't mean anything is wrong with our friendship. Now extend that to Billy Bob having thousands of cousins with a few dozen being criminals.

So unless there's a verifiable link to the specific individuals who are linked to terrorist groups it's a :shrug:
Though I understand your reasoning, it fails on a couple of points. Let's say that some rogue CIA agent arranged an arms shipment w/o Obama or the Pentagon's knowledge. You could excuse the FIRST shipment but--once the big wigs foubd out about it(and there's no secret AT ALL in re Saudi royal support for al-Qaeda), they would be legally and morally culpable if they allowed the shipments to continue with a blase´attitude.

Furthermore, you're already somewhat 'behind the game', so to speak, as al-Qaeda leaders have been photographed on MANY occasions with top-level Saudi royals. You could try to argue that they were just having friendly chats about Middle Eastern qualifiers for the World Cup, but that would be asinine when you also factor in lots of testimonies from defense industry and intelligence agents who organized those meetings...not to mention al-Qaeda members who have arrogantly bragged about their Saudi, UK and US gov't. support
 
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