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Discussion Starter #21 (Edited)
The problem with this is that it ensures that there will never be a non-intervention "crutch" as you call it. I say fugg that. You can't do anything about the past but you can certainly do something about the future.

Stay out of everybody's business and let the chips fall where they may. If folks decide that they want to kill each other you can't come crying to the US to prevent it. It's cold but whattayagunnado? :shrug:

As far as what some news organization covers or doesn't cover, in this age of the internet, what's the problem? :confused:
1.We disagree on one point; if you've directly CAUSED a problem, then you're morally responsible to try to rectify what you've done wrong. From a purely pragmatic standpoint, then you, Machiavelli and many others can make a sound academic case for non-intervention. However, the odds on your gov't. being TRULY non-interventionist are practically zero, as you well know.So, if they've determined to posit themselves as world leaders, then they should act in a morally upright manner that one should expect of a genuine, worthy leader.

2. To me, it again comes down to credibility; many mainstream news agencies heavily put on airs as arbiters of justice and truth-seekers. So, if they blatantly ignore a war of aggression and sex-slave racket just because the offenders are buddies with the agency director's government, then they can't blame us for thinking that they are complete frauds. It's one major reason--maybe the #1 reason--why so many now turn to the alternative media. To be fair, though, THOSE media members are flawed human beings, too
 

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It's funny that pov keeps replying to my comments even though I told him long ago that I had him on Ignore. The only reason I saw this one is because buddyholly responded to it.
:lol: What's really funny is that AmtrakQuebec doesn't see how this makes him the loser - again. I get to point out some of his incredibly idiotic comments to the board at large yet don't have to suffer through an inane back-and-forth with him.
 

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Stay out of everybody's business and let the chips fall where they may. If folks decide that they want to kill each other you can't come crying to the US to prevent it. It's cold but whattayagunnado? :shrug:
Much as some people seem to want that - that won't happen. Things in the world are far too connected. The only countries that don't get involved are those not powerful enough to do so. Even without overt military engagement the CIA, MI6, SVR, Mossad, etc aren't going to stand down.

The only sane argument is about what grounds are used to decide when and how to intervene.
 

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1.We disagree on one point; if you've directly CAUSED a problem, then you're morally responsible to try to rectify what you've done wrong. From a purely pragmatic standpoint, then you, Machiavelli and many others can make a sound academic case for non-intervention. However, the odds on your gov't. being TRULY non-interventionist are practically zero, as you well know.So, if they've determined to posit themselves as world leaders, then they should act in a morally upright manner that one should expect of a genuine, worthy leader.

2. To me, it again comes down to credibility; many mainstream news agencies heavily put on airs as arbiters of justice and truth-seekers. So, if they blatantly ignore a war of aggression and sex-slave racket just because the offenders are buddies with the agency director's government, then they can't blame us for thinking that they are complete frauds. It's one major reason--maybe the #1 reason--why so many now turn to the alternative media. To be fair, though, THOSE media members are flawed human beings, too
1. So which is it? Do you want intervention or not? Do you really trust someone who "caused" the problem to "fix" it? The US did not intervene in the Rwanda genocide and people complained. What do you want? If you want the US to lead, are you willing to follow? And what major nation does not "intervene" somewhere? Russia, China?

2. Since when do people blindly accept what a news organization calls itself? It's up to you the consumer of news to make that determination. And if you don't like what said news organization is doing, there are plenty of alternatives in this day and age. You can make use of them, you can complain or both. But ultimately it's on you.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
1. So which is it? Do you want intervention or not? Do you really trust someone who "caused" the problem to "fix" it? The US did not intervene in the Rwanda genocide and people complained. What do you want? If you want the US to lead, are you willing to follow? And what major nation does not "intervene" somewhere? Russia, China?

2. Since when do people blindly accept what a news organization calls itself? It's up to you the consumer of news to make that determination. And if you don't like what said news organization is doing, there are plenty of alternatives in this day and age. You can make use of them, you can complain or both. But ultimately it's on you.
You've shared a worthy post so I'm using part of my lunch break to try to offer a worthy reply(in reverse order).

2. We agree almost 100% on this point but--YES--there are definitely people who are mesmerized by a slick-sounding speaker, and you've surely met lots of them. We live in a world where lots of folks lack the emotional maturity, attention span or self-discipline to read anything longer than a Facebook post to investigate the truth.....as we've seen in ABUNDANCE here at TF;).. However, that's primarily the fault of the individual and not the media(though crappy, absentee parenting can play a part), and you are correct that we have plenty of alternatives.

1.There is no one-size-fits-all answer to your question: justifiable involvement in WW2 doesn't automatically = justifiable involvement in Vietnam.Tbh, I don't expect ANYthing positive from your gov't, China's, Russia's or my own. There are VERY few MLKs, Abraham Lincolns,JFKs, Benito Juarezes or Luis Colosios in this world who genuinely worry about the welfare of commonfolk(certainly no one in either of our gov'ts. right NOW), and they are invariably assassinated by the true powerbrokers. When the US gov't. intervenes, it's NOT because of heartfelt concern for victims but rather their own selfish agenda. That's why they can supposedly be so focused on democracy in Libya and Syria while turning a blind eye to their buddies in Saudi Arabia. It would be naive to expect ANY sort of prosecution for the al-Qaeda sex slave traders. The BEST case scenario, IMO, is if enough foreigners--and even some American citizens--start talking about the Saudi aggression in Yemen to the point where it becomes scandalous...and then someone in your diplomatic corps will (politely, of course) suggest to the Saudis that they need to tell their al-Qaeda pals to back off on the sex slave ring for a while until the public outcry blows over. It's not an ideal scenario but, for the victims' sake, it's FAR better than nothing.In this case, the masses could make a difference, just as resistance to the Vietnam War expedited its end
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Here are some additional details on the conflict, with a fairly-brief article, some short clips and also a link to offer humanitarian aid:
https://www.gofundme.com/savealifeinyemen

That's not meant to judge ANYone who doesn't contribute financially; I'M not in any situation to make regular donations, either. Obviously, though, SOME people can, and there's also the chance to offer spiritual support, in prayer, for those who believe in that, and it's not difificult at all to get the word out to our acquaintances about the plight of the Yemeni people. For those of us whose governments have warm relationships with the current, vile Saudi regime, we can write letters to our elected officials' home offices. Over the course of time, hundreds of complaint letters can serve as motivation for those politicians to chat with the Saudis to make the sex-slave trade scandal go away. The Yemeni victims of the Saudi war of aggression deserve at least that much effort.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Yemen: A tale of Saudi Folly and Global Silence

There are a couple of minor structural errors in the article above yet that's understandable for someone from a non-English speaking culture. Overall, it's still a professional piece of journalism that's a fairly quick read with valuable information.
 

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g'day Bruce
 

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Human trafficking as human rights violations ...



Before the USA government and the media concern themselves with what goes on in Yemen and Saudi Arabia, they need to concern themselves with what is going on within our own borders:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_the_United_States



In a society where young black men are often as vulnerable to police shootings and institutional abuses as Jews were in Nazi Germany, it would be far wiser for people here to address and correct these problems before concerning themselves with problems overseas. The problems we see in the States continue unabated because there are so many who continue to insist upon intervening overseas while ignoring the problems that occur domestically (with many denying that such problems even exist). Set your own house in order. Then worry about all else.
Yeah especially since we have concentration camps and make blacks wear gold stars, wtf. how could you compare the two?!?!?



You don't help by bringing utterly ridiculous (and that's an understatement) exaggerations and comparisons to the issue.


Beyond that, if an issue isn't of interest to you why bother reading/posting about it?
100% agree, it's been too long since I;ve said that.
 

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I wonder if Al-Qaeda has lined up any talent for Drumpf?

:shrug:
 

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I wonder if Al-Qaeda has lined up any talent for Drumpf?

:shrug:
Reminded me of this story:

The Danish agent, the Croatian blonde and the CIA plot to get al-Awlaki - CNN.com

The story would not be out of place on the TV thriller "Homeland": the Danish petty criminal turned double agent who receives $250,000 in cash for helping the CIA try to ensnare one of al Qaeda's most wanted -- by finding him a wife.
The wanted man was American-born al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, who had become one of the most effective propagandists for the group. The bride-to-be was a pretty blonde from Croatia.
 

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:lol: What's really funny is that AmtrakQuebec doesn't see how this makes him the loser - again. I get to point out some of his incredibly idiotic comments to the board at large yet don't have to suffer through an inane back-and-forth with him.
Since he has you on ignore, I'll quote this, to help perpetuate the fight. :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Pentagon decides to officially support Al-Qaeda in Syria. Sets up "exclusion zones" to shoot down Syrian and Russian jets

Here's a relatively brief article above on a charming alliance in Syria between the US gov't. and al-Qaeda. There's a certain warped logic to it; i.e., "Okay, you've issued enough anti-U.S. rhetoric to the media--in return for our training, arming and financially supporting so many of your operations--so that we could pin some BS blame on you for our 9/11 scam and launch multiple wars to further enrich our armaments corporations establishment.....and NOW we'll take it another step by militarily supporting your psychotic wahabbist actions in Syria...even though, previously, we've claimed that you were an enemy to world peace and a threat to all of humanity."

Tbh, I'd be stunned if the American gov't. was actually bold enough to do more than blather hot air and really go to war with Russia. Still, it's appalling that such a low percentage of people can see the absurdity in the Americans now bonding with the same organization that supposedly destroyed the Twin Towers. It looks like al-Qaeda itself is now joining the Saudis on the "protected list"; that is, groups and regimes that get a free pass on brutal human rights violations--even mainstream media-orchestrated shielding from blame--while the gringos self-righteously point fingers at far more moderate leaders who don't capitulate to U.S. foreign policy whims. To be fair, though, the UN's European blowhards are equally cowardly and hypocritical in claiming to be defenders of freedom......while they willfully turn a blind eye to sex slavery victims in Yemen
 

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Pentagon decides to officially support Al-Qaeda in Syria. Sets up "exclusion zones" to shoot down Syrian and Russian jets

Here's a relatively brief article above on a charming alliance in Syria between the US gov't. and al-Qaeda. There's a certain warped logic to it; i.e., "Okay, you've issued enough anti-U.S. rhetoric to the media--in return for our training, arming and financially supporting so many of your operations--so that we could pin some BS blame on you for our 9/11 scam and launch multiple wars to further enrich our armaments corporations establishment.....and NOW we'll take it another step by militarily supporting your psychotic wahabbist actions in Syria...even though, previously, we've claimed that you were an enemy to world peace and a threat to all of humanity."

Tbh, I'd be stunned if the American gov't. was actually bold enough to do more than blather hot air and really go to war with Russia. Still, it's appalling that such a low percentage of people can see the absurdity in the Americans now bonding with the same organization that supposedly destroyed the Twin Towers. It looks like al-Qaeda itself is now joining the Saudis on the "protected list"; that is, groups and regimes that get a free pass on brutal human rights violations--even mainstream media-orchestrated shielding from blame--while the gringos self-righteously point fingers at far more moderate leaders who don't capitulate to U.S. foreign policy whims. To be fair, though, the UN's European blowhards are equally cowardly and hypocritical in claiming to be defenders of freedom......while they willfully turn a blind eye to sex slavery victims in Yemen
You do realize that the site you linked to, TheDuran, is a Russian p r o x y site, right?

They are well known as Putin shills. Here is a list of the various ones, in case you want to know...

https://toinformistoinfluence.com/2015/11/15/russian-news-and-russian-*****-news-sites/

You can't trust anything they say, it is all just propaganda.

meh
 

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Discussion Starter #37
You do realize that the site you linked to, TheDuran, is a Russian p r o x y site, right?

They are well known as Putin shills.
Thank you very much for this information:hatoff:; I'll use more impartial sources in the future. There's nothing phony about the main thread focus, though, as the al-Qaeda/Saudi operation in Yemen can be verified by a number of reliable sources
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Though it disappointed me that my source from last week was not impartial, I was glad that the other poster pointed out that fact because, obviously, we should try to maintain the credibility of our messages whenever we have anything important like this to share. Here in Mexico, we have enough difficulty sorting through our OWN government's media-aided propaganda, so I might not always be aware of foreign media.There shouldn't be any such problem with this week's submission.

Wanton murder ? Saudi Arabia?s genocidal campaign in Yemen reaches new height - American Herald Tribune

Supposed peace-seekers like the British MPs,Obama and the UN puppet reps are utter frauds so long as they refuse to even comment on the war crimes mentioned above, and we can only roll our eyes at the phony outrage from the mainstream media as they pretend to weep over Aleppo in Syria while managing to, pretty much, completely ignore Yemen
 

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Supposed peace-seekers like the British MPs,Obama and the UN puppet reps are utter frauds so long as they refuse to even comment on the war crimes mentioned above, and we can only roll our eyes at the phony outrage from the mainstream media as they pretend to weep over Aleppo in Syria while managing to, pretty much, completely ignore Yemen
There has been some media coverage of the atrocities. But you have this thread based around the slave trade. If you want to open it up to the war in Yemen overall maybe change the title.


Yemen conflict: US 'could be implicated in war crimes' - BBC News

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/18/us-promoting-war-crimes-yemen-saudi-bombing-obama

Exclusive: As Saudis bombed Yemen, U.S. worried about legal blowback | Reuters
 

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Discussion Starter #40
There has been some media coverage of the atrocities. But you have this thread based around the slave trade. If you want to open it up to the war in Yemen overall maybe change the title.
You make a very valid point here, but let's not forget that even the pieces that you've cited manage to ignore the sex-slave trade aspect of the incursion--as if it were some minor issue that wasn't worth mentioning--so that tends to re-inforce the assertion in the thread title.

Another trick by the mainstream media is to put forth a facade of journalistic credibility by reporting just barely enough on an incident to make many believe that the media is sincerely investigating. For example, thanks to the internet and alternative media, it would look really bad if the mainstream media didn't mention a war of aggression AT ALL. However, they don't bother explaining why the elected Syrian regime is supposedly pure evil and requires constant criticism while the despotic, terrorism-backing Saudi royal family only gets sporadic attention. It's a clever use of Power of Suggestion on the masses:' See, we're reporting on the issue, and when we DON'T report anything, that means that nothing important is happening'. The sex slave trade is so despicable that regular citizens might start questioning why their gov't. even aligns itself with Saudi Arabia IF the media released regular updates on that.

In addition, most mainstream reports against friends of the government, like Saudi Arabia, simply restate what people have already learnt from other sources, so they're not truly exposing ANYthing, since the most determined news-seekers wouldn't rely on the mainstream media, anyway. The majority of mainstream news absorbers just swiftly skim through anything longer than a Facebook post and then forget about it
 
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