Tennis Forum banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,096 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone seen this match or remember what happened? I know in the grand scheme of tennis it is not such an important match, but it is Arantxa's only win over Seles before Hamburg 1993 and I am just curious as to what happened as there is nothing about this match anywhere - Monica goes straight from Wimbledon 1992 - US Open 1992 in her book!

Monica was always a tougher prospect for Arantxa than Steffi (as if Steffi wasn't tough enough!) and I am glad she did manage to get at least one win over Monica during her domination of tennis. Monica had beaten Arantxa 6-3, 6-2 the week before and went on to win the US Open two weeks later pretty comfortably so I don't think she was injured or anything, which would indicate that this would be one of Arantxa's best ever wins especially on a hard court, yet I know nothing about it. Arantxa won the first set against Monica 3 or 4 times before this, but Seles always came back and won, but this time Arantxa managed to come through a tight third set and win.

So if anyone has any memories of this match I would appreciate it. It would be nice to hear about it. I am sure even the Monica fans might have a nice couple of memories of this match? (I was kind of reluctant to start this thread in case it turned into one of the sometimes quite bitter Seles v Graf threads that seem to have turned up all over the place. Even though Steffi is not really the subject here, it still seems to end up the same way, so please let's not go down that road :))
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,508 Posts
raquel said:
Has anyone seen this match or remember what happened? I know in the grand scheme of tennis it is not such an important match, but it is Arantxa's only win over Seles before Hamburg 1993 and I am just curious as to what happened as there is nothing about this match anywhere - Monica goes straight from Wimbledon 1992 - US Open 1992 in her book!

Monica was always a tougher prospect for Arantxa than Steffi (as if Steffi wasn't tough enough!) and I am glad she did manage to get at least one win over Monica during her domination of tennis. Monica had beaten Arantxa 6-3, 6-2 the week before and went on to win the US Open two weeks later pretty comfortably so I don't think she was injured or anything, which would indicate that this would be one of Arantxa's best ever wins especially on a hard court, yet I know nothing about it. Arantxa won the first set against Monica 3 or 4 times before this, but Seles always came back and won, but this time Arantxa managed to come through a tight third set and win.

So if anyone has any memories of this match I would appreciate it. It would be nice to hear about it. I am sure even the Monica fans might have a nice couple of memories of this match? (I was kind of reluctant to start this thread in case it turned into one of the sometimes quite bitter Seles v Graf threads that seem to have turned up all over the place. Even though Steffi is not really the subject here, it still seems to end up the same way, so please let's not go down that road :))

I'd be curious to know about this match as well. Perhaps Robert and some of our Aranxta fans will help with this.

I do remember their 91 match in Los Angeles. I used to have this on tape but lost it through the years. It was a tight 3 set match and I remember it as being one of the great early matches in ASV's career.

So it would be interesting to know something about that Canadian Open win which has to be one of ASV's greatest.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,293 Posts
raquel said:
Has anyone seen this match or remember what happened? I know in the grand scheme of tennis it is not such an important match, but it is Arantxa's only win over Seles before Hamburg 1993 and I am just curious as to what happened as there is nothing about this match anywhere - Monica goes straight from Wimbledon 1992 - US Open 1992 in her book!

Monica was always a tougher prospect for Arantxa than Steffi (as if Steffi wasn't tough enough!) and I am glad she did manage to get at least one win over Monica during her domination of tennis. .... (I was kind of reluctant to start this thread in case it turned into one of the sometimes quite bitter Seles v Graf threads that seem to have turned up all over the place. Even though Steffi is not really the subject here, it still seems to end up the same way, so please let's not go down that road :))

"Monica during her domination of tennis"?
What do you mean by that?
Please elaborate ......



;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,667 Posts
Raquel, Hanafan, I saw the match on tele and the difference was (compared to the 2 or 3 other close matches between the 2) that Monica didn't close it out in the third set. After losing the first set and winning the second, the usual pattern seemed to set in. Seles was ahead 4:2 in the 3rd set. But then she didn't close it out, unusual for her back then.

The whole week she didn't play above average (for her standard as the number one player): She lost a set to Canadian's no. 1 Hy, followed by a not too impressive 6:3,6:4 vs. McNeil and then the loss vs. Sanchez.
She moved on and played a little better a few weeks later and won the US Open - when it really counted - as usual :)

Nevertheless one has to admit Sanchez used to play her best Tennis at the Canadian Open - especially in Montreal, she's got quite a record there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,127 Posts
It was an entertaining match. I remember Arantxa was grunting back to Seles quite loudly. :devil:

Sanchez gave Seles a lot of high overheads, Monica missed a lot from them, and the spaniard used the drop shot many times, I think.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,096 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Robert1 said:
Raquel, Hanafan, I saw the match on tele and the difference was (compared to the 2 or 3 other close matches between the 2) that Monica didn't close it out in the third set. After losing the first set and winning the second, the usual pattern seemed to set in. Seles was ahead 4:2 in the 3rd set. But then she didn't close it out, unusual for her back then.

The whole week she didn't play above average (for her standard as the number one player): She lost a set to Canadian's no. 1 Hy, followed by a not too impressive 6:3,6:4 vs. McNeil and then the loss vs. Sanchez.
She moved on and played a little better a few weeks later and won the US Open - when it really counted - as usual :)

Nevertheless one has to admit Sanchez used to play her best Tennis at the Canadian Open - especially in Montreal, she's got quite a record there.
Thanks Robert :) I didn't realise Arantxa was 4-2 down and won 4 straight games in the third set. I know it was perhaps not Monica's greatest ever week of tennis while she was at number 1 but she still managed to get to 4-2 in the third, so that was a great comeback for ASV to get her first win over Monica.

Yes they had a couple of close ones previously which also sound like great matches -

1990 Virginia Slims Championships, Madison Square Garden : Monica d Arantxa 5-7, 7-6, 6-4 :eek: Looks like a great battle

1991 Los Angeles : Monica d. Arantxa 6-7, 6-4, 6-4 - Again ASV takes the 1st set but Seles rallies to win. I am sure that was a great match too :)

1992 Barcelona (WTA event, not Olympics) : Monica d. Arantxa 3-6, 6-2, 6-3
Another 3 set match with ASV winning the 1st.

Of course in between these matches Monica dished out quite a few straight sets wins but then Arantxa eventually won this match in Montreal when she won the first set. :) When Monica returned to tennis they had a few great battles again. I think 2 years in a row they played the Tokyo Princess Cup final with Monica winning 6-4 and 7-6 in the third sets. And then Arantxa beat Monica from a set and 4-1 down at Madison Square Garden again. I know it ended up something like 19-3 to Monica in head to heads, but in between the Monica straight sets wins there was some great battles :) I am glad their last ever match was a 3 setter too, Monica beating Arantxa at 2002 Indian Wells 6-3, 3-6, 6-3.

tommystar said:
It was an entertaining match. I remember Arantxa was grunting back to Seles quite loudly. :devil:

Sanchez gave Seles a lot of high overheads, Monica missed a lot from them, and the spaniard used the drop shot many times, I think.
Thanks tommystar :) I can imagine Arantxa grunting as loud as Monica. Their French Open final in 1998 was pretty loud at times! Arantxa always gave Seles a lot of overheads mainly because Monica would go from line to line and Arantxa would chase and eventually have to throw up a high one and in a match like this it just needed Monica to miss an overhead once or twice on big points to allow Arantxa to hang in. And Arantxa used the dropshot a lot against Monica at RG 1998, I guess she knew she would not be able to trade power all day and had to mix it up.

I think Monica and Arantxa were good friends :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,667 Posts
The Slims Championships Qf 1990 and the Canadian Open 96 F are my favorite Seles/Sanchez matches, at the Canadian Open 96 Seles played some of her best Tennis to win 61 76, she was hungry for revenge, it was their first match after the stabbing.... The Slims match was pure drama, the crowd going one point for one player, the next point for the other. 3 high quality, dramatic sets.

L.A. 1991 was horrible. It was close and Sanchez was questioning really EVERY shot that was somewhere near the lines but clearly OUT. And the dump crowd got into it and supported it. At one point Monica was even complaining after Sanchez was looking at the linesman DURING a point which iritated Seles. And you usually never saw Seles complaining to the umpire (just gestures).

Another bad match was LA 92 Sf, both played badly (it was a week before Sanchez' first win vs. Seles) and Seles won like 62 63.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
101 Posts
I LOVE that pic of Monica and Aranxta. It's really cute of both of them. My memory is doing poorly. I thought Monica had never lost at the Canadian Open until Hingis beat her a few years ago. But I guess that it was she had never lost in Toronto????
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,863 Posts
Mary Carillo said during the US Open a few weeks later after ASV win: The worst thing ASV could've done in preparation for this final was to beat Seles the last time they played :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,667 Posts
It's interesting how champions like Seles, Evert or Navratilova etc. were able to turn things round when it really counted. I.e. Monica lost in Rome 91 and 92 to Sabatini but won the French Open afterwards. In San Diego 91 she lost to Capriati before winning US Open. Same in 92 (after Montreal).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,742 Posts
louloubelle said:
Mary Carillo said during the US Open a few weeks later after ASV win: The worst thing ASV could've done in preparation for this final was to beat Seles the last time they played :D
haha!! true! And that usually counts..I remember Arantxa lost to Elena Likhovtseva and Karina Habsudova I think in the clay court season before the 96 French and DURING the 96 French she beat both players including giving a double bagel to Likhovtseva! :eek:

BTW Im glad that Arantxa and Monica are friends..I think I remember reading Monica's book and Arantxa was the first one to talk to Monica when she came back (1995) and thats pretty sweet considering Arantxa had a HORRIBLE record against Monica and Monica denied Arantxa 2 Grand slams..I would be mad as hell! lol

I remember seeing footage of that 92 US Open final and Arantxa was grunting pretty loud as well lol but Monica wanted sweet revenge.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
101 Posts
It's been a long time since I've read Monica's book, but I seem to remember Gabriella Sabatini being the only player to vote FOR Monica having her ranking reinstated???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,667 Posts
That's true, Jorge. Even though Monica and Arantxa seem to get on well, I will never forget the Hamburg ceremony 1993 when Sanchez thanked the sponsors 2 seconds (and in the same sentence) after a dry "hope Monica is fine again soon". :( She and Martinez were against the no.1 ranking in 1995 as well... The hypocritical way almost all of those players behaved after the stabbing up to the comeback (I exclude Navratilova, Sabatini, Sukova, M.Fernandez) made me think like their all just a bunch of rotten bi*****.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,551 Posts
Arantxa was an excruciating opponent for anyone to play, but especially for Monica when she wasn't 100 per cent. When Monica was on, she hit winners and put everything away, so she could dominate ASV. However, when she wasn't quite on, she hit more balls out and had to play a little less aggressively. Of course, playing the balls more safely inside the lines plays right into ASV's game. That seemed to be the scene at the '98 FO and Monica just ran out of gas against the human backboard. Not to give less credit to Arantxa. That was her game. If you didn't hit your best first shot, you'd better believe shot #2 was coming back and so on and so on and ... Arantxa was a killer like Monica and Steffi, she just made her victims suffer and slow, lingering death, kind of a Chinese Water Torture.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,667 Posts
Yes, but after all, it didn't work against Monica. I mean, if Monica played her best ASV couldn't see a light at all. If Monica played badly, it was close and usually Monica won anyway. ASV won 3 times, all 3 times Seles blew a lead and was physically and mentally not there. Well, at the Championships and FO. I give the most credit to ASV for that Montreal win (even though as far as I know Seles had a foot injury that week, but I don't want to go into that Graff thing "she was injured, cause she lost").

After all, Sanchez' game suited Seles just fine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,918 Posts
Robert1 said:
That's true, Jorge. Even though Monica and Arantxa seem to get on well, I will never forget the Hamburg ceremony 1993 when Sanchez thanked the sponsors 2 seconds (and in the same sentence) after a dry "hope Monica is fine again soon". :( She and Martinez were against the no.1 ranking in 1995 as well... The hypocritical way almost all of those players behaved after the stabbing up to the comeback (I exclude Navratilova, Sabatini, Sukova, M.Fernandez) made me think like their all just a bunch of rotten bi*****.
In the endless Graf-Seles feud, Arantxa gets off lightly. It is highly likely that it was her career more than any other which benefitted from Monica's removal from the game. Steffi, after all, was already an established great by 93. Arantxa gained millions in winnings and became far more marketable as the main opposition to Steffi as a result of Hamburg 93 and may (I'd be tempted to say "would" rather than "may" but we'll never know) never have got to #1. Her attitude regarding the co-ranking was very low and it would have been poetic justice if Mon had annihilated her at RG in 98.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,667 Posts
The justice is that Sanchez is forgotten in the record books even though having been number 1. Seles isn't.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,096 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Robert1 said:
Yes, but after all, it didn't work against Monica. I mean, if Monica played her best ASV couldn't see a light at all. If Monica played badly, it was close and usually Monica won anyway.
I agree.

Robert1 said:
ASV won 3 times, all 3 times Seles blew a lead and was physically and mentally not there. Well, at the Championships and FO.
Seles seemed mentally and physically OK thrashing world number 1 Hingis two days before the Arantxa match. Also, Seles led by a break in the first set in the French final and that was the only time she led the whole match. The Championships match I read that Seles got increasingly tired as the macth went on so maybe there she was not physically 100%

Robert1 said:
I give the most credit to ASV for that Montreal win (even though as far as I know Seles had a foot injury that week, but I don't want to go into that Graff thing "she was injured, cause she lost").
Robert you may as well go into it if that's what you honestly think, it's not a problem. Didn't you know when Arantxa ever beat anyone she "shouldn't have" there is a reason? My favourite on here was when Arantxa beat Chris Evert at the 1988 French. Evert was in her second last year, but did get to the Australian Open final and was the 3rd seed. Arantxa was only 16 but won. Suddenly Chris was too old, was sick, and probably in love again.

I sometimes joke about Steffi's 1989 excuse of her period, however Steffi is not like one or two of her fans - Steffi actually credited Arantxa a few times and always had some nice words for her. Most Steffi fans are great though and the one or two who do, as you say, argue that "she was injured, cause she lost" don't just save that attitude for Arantxa.

Robert1 said:
After all, Sanchez' game suited Seles just fine.
I agree, and the head to heads prove it in a big way. I am glad Arantxa did get a few wins over Monica - no matter how physically ill or mentally unstable she was at the time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,128 Posts
raquel said:
I sometimes joke about Steffi's 1989 excuse of her period
Hang on a minute, did Steffi herself ever blame her period for her loss? The way I remember it, the press repeatedly kept asking her why she had left the court at 5-6 in the third set, and she eventually snapped and told them she'd had her period. If anything, that sounds like an explanation for leaving the court, not for losing.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top