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post #196 of 203 (permalink) Old Oct 6th, 2009, 09:43 AM
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Re: 60s and 70s head to head

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It is strange that Evert did not play the French Open in 1972 I readilly agree. As for the 76-78 French Opens yes Goolagong in 76 is the only realistic candidate I can think of.
The only explanation I can think of was that she was graduating high school.
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post #197 of 203 (permalink) Old Oct 6th, 2009, 09:49 AM
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Re: 60s and 70s head to head

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The only explanation I can think of was that she was graduating high school.
Ok maybe that is right. But you would have thought that alternate graduation could have been made.Maybe it was so she was totally match fit on grass and not clay for her first appearance at Wimbledon??
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post #198 of 203 (permalink) Old Oct 6th, 2009, 12:27 PM
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Re: 60s and 70s head to head

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Hi ChrisOdd indeed. That is right it was 74 and of course with the momentum he had it could just have robbed Connors of a Grand Slam. I know what you mean re Barker in 76 but that ranking was going into the French. For the entire year she was rated between 5 and 8 by the ranking compilers and that is a
Sue could only beat who was in front of her etc but IMO Barker's ranking for the year is irrelevant, it is that of her opposition that counts. Ruzici hadn't made her mark just yet but the fact remains that while there might have been several players who had a decent claycourt game the top dozen players or so in the world were absent.

It would be like Elena Dementieva winning the AO in January being the highest ranked player competing and the next highest someone like Marion Bartoli or Samantha Stosur.

Margaret Thatcher - Michele Bachmann two strong women of our time.
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post #199 of 203 (permalink) Old Oct 6th, 2009, 05:09 PM
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Re: 60s and 70s head to head

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Sue could only beat who was in front of her etc but IMO Barker's ranking for the year is irrelevant, it is that of her opposition that counts. Ruzici hadn't made her mark just yet but the fact remains that while there might have been several players who had a decent claycourt game the top dozen players or so in the world were absent.

It would be like Elena Dementieva winning the AO in January being the highest ranked player competing and the next highest someone like Marion Bartoli or Samantha Stosur.
Chris. Of course you are correct. But because I loved the Barker game so much I tend not to wallow in reality too much. And just celebrate that she did win a grand slam!!!!!
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post #200 of 203 (permalink) Old Jul 1st, 2019, 09:18 AM
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Re: 60s and 70s head to head

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Court vs. King


Here's what ww know so far



1962

Moffit 1-6 6-3 7-5. Wimbledon 2R. Grass
Smith 6-4 6-2. Merion SF Grass
Smith 6-3 6-4. Orange SF Grass


1963
SMITH 6-3 6-4 Wimbledon F Grass

1964
SMITH 6-3 6-4 Wimbledon SF Grass
SMITH 6-2 6-3 Federation Cup F Grass
Smith 6-4 6-3 Sydney F Grass

1965
SMITH 6-1 8-6 Australian Ch SF Grass
SMITH 6-4 8-6 Federation Cup F Grass
SMITH 8-6 7-5 US Champs F Grass

1966
King 6-3 6-2 South African F Hard
KING 6-3 6-3 Wimbledon SF Grass

* Court retires for the season of 1967*

1968
King 6-1 6-4 Perth F Grass
KING 6-1 6-2 Australian Ch F Grass

1969
COURT 6-4 6-1 Australian Ch F Grass
KING 8-6 6-8 6-4. Las Vegas SF Hard ?
COURT 6-3 6-3 Bristol UK F Grass

1970
King 6-2 4-6 6-3 Sydney F Grass
Court 6-3 7-6 (14-12) Philadelphia F Indoor
Court 6-4 6-4 Dallas F (My Dallas score is 1-6 6-2 11-9! Indoor
King 6-4 2-6 6-2 Durban F Hard
Court 6-4 1-6 6-3. South African F Hard
Court 14-12 11-9. Wimbledon F Grass
* Court off again on maternity leave *

1971
Court 6-3 3-6 6-3 Queens F Grass
King 6-2 7-5. Hoylake SF Grass

1972
Court 6-4 6-1 Newport F Grass
KING 6-4 6-4 US Champs SF Grass
King 6-2 6-2 Charlotte F Clay
Court 6-4 6-1 Berkeley F Hard
King 7-6 (5-3) 6-3 Phoenix F Hard

1973
KING 6-7 7-6 6-3. Indianapolis Indoors Feb 25
Court 6-2 4-6 6-4 Chicago F Indoor
Court 6-2 6-4 Boston F Indoor
Court 6-3 4-6 6-2 Nashville F Clay-?


21-13 in favor of Court so far.
1964 Federation Cup was in Philadelphia.

1965 Federation Cup (Melbourne).
1965 Australian National Championships
1965 U. S. National Championships

1968 Perth: King 6-2, 6-4

1969 Australian Open final: Court 6-4, 6-1
1969 Wills Open, Bristol
1969 Howard Hughes Open, Las Vegas (hard)

The chronological order of their matches in 1970 was:
Philadelphia
Dallas (1-6, 6-3, 11-9)
Sydney
South African Open, Johannesburg
Natal Open, Durban, South Africa
Wimbledon

Their fourth match of 1972 was at Golden Gate Fields in Albany, CA, not in Berkeley.

1972 Phoenix: King 7-6(5-1), 6-3.

1973 Indianapolis SF: King 6-7(0-5), 7-6(5-2), 6-3

Last edited by Austimrunner1; Jul 1st, 2019 at 09:49 PM.
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post #201 of 203 (permalink) Old Jul 1st, 2019, 11:24 PM
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Re: 60s and 70s head to head

Casals vs. King

1965 (1-0)
King 6-2, 8-6 Cal State F

1966 (2-2), (overall 3-2)
Casals 2-6, 6-4, 7-5 New England Indoor QF
King 6-2, 6-4 Ojai Valley F
King 6-3, 6-2 Phoenix SF
Casals 6-3, 6-8, 6-3 Eastern Grass Courts 3R

1967 (3-1), (overall 6-3)
King 6-1, 6-3 Cal State F
Casals 6-4, 6-4 US Clay SF
King 6-0, 6-4 PSW F
King 6-3, 3-6, 6-2 South American F

1968 (5-1), (overall 11-4)
King 6-3, 9-7 US Indoor F
King 6-1, 6-2 French Pro SF
King 4-6, 7-5, 7-5 Wembley Pro SF
Casals 10-8, 2-6, 6-0 Oakland Pro F
King 10-8, 6-4 Binghamton Pro F
King 6-0, 6-4 Fort Worth Pro SF

1969 (6-1), (overall 17-5)
Casals 6-3, 5-7, 7-5 NSW SF
King 6-1, 6-4 Los Angeles Pro SF
King 6-1, 6-0 Wimbledon SF
King 4-6, 6-3, 6-2 Irish SF
King 6-4, 6-2 St. Louis Pro F
King 6-4, 6-2 Binghamton Pro SF
King 6-3, 6-3 Midland Pro F

1970 (2-0), (overall 19-5)
King 6-0, 6-4 Dallas QF
King 6-3, 6-2 South Africa SF

1971 (12-1), (overall 31-6)
King 6-3, 6-4 San Francisco F
King 6-1, 6-2 Long Beach F
King 6-3, 6-2 Milwaukee F
King 1-6, 7-6(5-2), 6-4 Oklahoma City F
King 4-6, 6-2, 6-3 US Indoor, F
King 3-6, 6-1, 6-2 Rochester & Troy, Mich F
Casals 6-4, 6-4 New York City F
King 4-6, 7-5, 6-1 San Diego F
King 6-3, 6-3 Hoylake F
King 6-4, 7-6(5-2) US Open F
King 6-1, 4-6, 6-3 Louisville F
Double default with Casals leading 6-6(2-0) PSW F
King 7-5, 6-1 Phoenix F
King 6-1, 6-2 Wembley SF

1972 (5-0), (overall 36-6)
King 6-7(4), 6-4, 7-5 (35 games) Nottingham RR
King 6-3, 6-2 Bristol SF
King 6-2, 6-4 Wimbledon SF
King 6-2, 6-3 Charlotte SF
King 6-3, 7-6(5-0) Phoenix SF

1973 (3-3), (overall 39-9)
King 5-7, 6-2, 6-4 Indianapolis F
Casals 7-6, 6-3 Hilton Head SF
King 6-3, 7-6 Toray Sillok, Japan SF
King 6-4, 6-3 Nottingham SF
Casals 7-6(5-2), 6-2 Houston SF
Casals 3-6, 7-6(5-3), 6-4 Baltimore F

1974 (4-0), (overall 43-9)
King 5-7, 6-2, 6-0 Fairfax, Virginia SF
King 6-1, 6-1 Detroit F
King 6-3, 5-7, 6-3 New York City SF
King 6-1, 7-6(5-2) US Open QF

1975-76 (0-0), (overall 43-9)

1977 (2-0), (overall 45-9)
King 4-6, 6-4, 6-3 Phoenix QF
King 5-7, 6-2, 6-2 Tokyo SF

1978-79 (0-0), (overall 45-9)

1980 (1-1), (overall 46-10)
Casals 6-4, 6-7, 6-0 Tokyo 1R
King 6-3, 7-6 Tokyo 1R

1981-82 (0-0), (overall 46-10)

1983 (1-0), (overall 47-10)
King 6-3, 6-4 Wimbledon 3R (Court 2)

Last edited by Austimrunner1; Jul 2nd, 2019 at 04:20 AM.
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post #202 of 203 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 2019, 02:49 PM
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Re: 60s and 70s head to head

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As for Court v King, I think 1973 is the perfect example of how much better Court was than King. My God, Court yet again won 3/4 of a Grand Slam!! And King only won Wimbledon because Evert put out Court in the semis, then was too inexperienced in the final (plus was going through a teenage rebellion phase because her mum wouldn't leave her alone with men for five seconds). I wonder if King would have won the French Open in 1972 if Evert had played? She handed the Old Lady's ass to her on a plate in January 1972, beating her 6-1, 6-0 at Fort Lauderdale (ok, I think BJK had just had her abortion, but she also beat her in straight sets in April in St Petersburg, Florida). Goodness only knows why Chrissie avoided the French (could that have been a fourth title she forfeited there?!?) and then played the Wightman Cup on grass at Wimbledon, Queen's Club and then the All-England!
King injured her wrist in January 1973, causing her to miss about 1 month of tournaments. In her second tournament after returning to the tour, she snapped Court's 59 match winning streak. Two weeks later, she lost to Court in a very close final that was 3-3 in the final set before King lost her serve. That was King's last match for a month because of torn abdominal muscles. Back to the drawing board ... In the first tournament of her second restart of the year, Court beat her easily in the Boston final. King blamed lack of match play for the up and down quality of her play. But she also said that Court"s serve during 1973 was the best she had seen in a long time. The tour played on clay for 2 weeks, with King losing in the quarters and semis. King then beat Nancy Richey in the indoor Tokyo final. King took a month off and did not defend her French Open title. On Engllsh grass, King went undefeated in singles, women's doubles, and mixed doubles, including a sweep of the titles at Wimbledon. I think that up to this point, Court clearly was having the best year, but King was not far behind. When play resumed after Wimbledon, King won the title in Denver. Her winning streak in singles reached 26 matches before Court beat her in the 3-set Nashville final on clay. The difference was that Court lost her serve 5 times compared to King's 8 (terrible numbers for both).

This is when the distraction and pressure of the upcoming Bobby Riggs match caused King to fall apart on the regular tour, including her meltdown (while sick) at the US Open. Her one accomplishment at Forest Hills was that she and Owen Davidson handed Court the first loss of her career in mixed doubles at the US Nationals/Open. Her record sank to 39-1 with 9 titles out of 10 attempts since 1961. This was King's third mixed doubles title out of 10 attempts since 1959, and her record in that event improved to 27-7.

My opinion is that when Court cluelessly embarrassed herself and women's tennis during the Mother's Day Massacre, she clinched the World No. 1 ranking for the year. Court has always dismissed the importance of her loss, but the truth is that she put the credibility of women's tennis and, more generally, all of women's sports at risk. King's match with Riggs then became astronomically important, with all the pressure on King's shoulders. Court adopted an "I don't care" attitude, declaring that she was not a "women's libber." Some of King's colleagues on the tour also hedged their futures and provided little or no public support of King. Arthur Ashe, who carefully built and guarded his public reputation for unimpeachable goodness, secretly laid down bets in Las Vegas against King. Jack Kramer, who despised King and all of women's tennis because they refused to be the permanent undercard of his business empire, eagerly awaited her long-deserved worldwide humiliation by the sport's chief con artist. I don't think any person of either gender could have handled the pressure better. But even King could not topple an in-form Court from World No. 1 while preparing for and winning the most publicly momentous tennis match in history. That match sealed King's reputation as the mother and protector of women's tennis and, sadly, the minimization of Court's incredible on-court accomplishments. 1973 was the fork-in-the-road for both.

Every 10 or 15 years, a woman reaches the prime of her tennis career and suddenly overturns the established pecking order. Dorothea Douglass Lambert Chambers, May Sutton Bumdy, Suzanne Lenglen, Molla Bjurstedt Mallory, Helen Wills Moody, Alice Marble, Pauline Betz, Maureen Connolly, Court, Chris Evert, Martina Navratilova, Steffi Graf, Monica Seles, Serena Williams, and Justine Henin are members of that club.

King along with, for example, Althea Gibson, Ann Haydon Jones, Arantxa Sanchez Vicario, Betty Nuthall, Beverley Baker Fleitz, Conchita Martinez, Darlene Hard, Doris Hart, Dorothy Akhurst, Dorothy Round Little, Ellizabeth Ryan, Evonne Goolagong Cawley, Françoise Durr, Hana Mandlikova, Helen Jacobs, Hilda Krahwinkel Sperling, Kim Clijsters, Kitty McKane Godfrey, Lesley Turner Bowrey, Li Na, Lindsay Davenport, Louise Brough, Margaret Osborne duPont, Maria Bueno, Maria Sharapova, Martina Hingis, Nancy Richey, Nancye Wynne Bolton, Olga Morozova, Rosemary Casals, Sarah Palfrey Cooke, Simone Mathieu, Tracy Austin, Venus Williams, and Virginia Wade won many titles but had either short careers or inferior records against the best of their era. But King is unique compared to all the others because she is among the most influential in the long struggle of all women for equality in life, not just in sport. Without Riggs, this would not have happened.

Last edited by Austimrunner1; Jul 3rd, 2019 at 04:24 AM.
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post #203 of 203 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 2019, 03:35 PM
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Re: 60s and 70s head to head

Which women played the most career singles matches against each other?

80 (43-37) Martina Navratilova & Chris Evert

57 (47-10) Billie Jean Moffitt King & Rosemary Casals

53 (40-13) Moffitt King & Ann Haydon Jones

51 (38-13) Doris Hart & Shirley Fry

42 (31-11) Moffitt King & Virginia Wade

39 (26-13) Evert & Evonne Goolagong Cawley

36 (29-07) Moffitt King & Françoise Durr

34 (21-13) Margaret Smith Court & Moffitt King

33 (25-08) Moffitt King & Kerry Melville Reid
33 (25-08) Pauline Betz & Dorothy Bundy Cheney

30 (18-12) Moffitt King & Nancy Richey

27 (20-07) Evert & Moffitt King
27 (18-09) Louise Brough & Margaret Osborne duPont

25 (13-12) Hart & Brough

24 (23-01) Evert & Sue Barker
24 (20-04) Moffitt King & Julie Heldman

23 (22-01) Evert & Rosemary Casals

22 (20-02) Moffitt King & Karen Krantzcke

21 (19-02) Moffitt King & Betty Stöve

19 (16-03) Evert & Dianne Fromholtz Balestrat

17 (16-01) Evert & Sylvia Hanika
17 (16-01) Moffitt King & Mary Ann Eisel Curtis Beattie
17 (11-06) Navratilova & Moffitt King
17 (09-08) Tracy Austin & Evert

16 (15-01) Beverly Baker Fleitz & Bundy Cheney
16 (13-03) Moffitt King & Goolagong Cawley

15 (12-03) Moffitt King & Carole Caldwell Graebner
15 (09-06) Sarah Palfrey Fabyan Cooke & Betz

14 (14-00) Evert & Bettina Bunge
14 (12-02) Betz & Osborne duPont
14 (11-03) Moffitt & Judy Tegart Dalton
14 (08-06) Fry & Brough
14 (08-06) Steffi Graf & Evert
14 (08-06) Palfrey Fabyan Cooke & Bundy Cheney

13 (13-00) Evert & Claudia Khode Kilsch
13 (13-00) Evert & Durr
13 (13-00) Moffitt King & Kathleen Harter Marcus Shubin
13 (11-02) Evert & Heldman
13 (09-04) Evert & Smith Court
13 (08-05) Moffitt King & Maria Bueno
13 (07-06) Baker Fleitz & Brough

12 (12-00) Evert & Bonnie Gadusek
12 (12-00) Moffitt King & Helen Gourlay Cawley
12 (12-00) Moffitt King & Lesley Hunt
12 (11-01) Moffitt King & Wendy Turnbull

11 (10-01) Moffitt King & Wendy Overton
11 (09-02) Evert & Zina Garrison
11 (07-04) Maureen Connolly & Hart
11 (06-05) Bundy Cheney & Osborne duPont

10 (10-00) Evert & Hunt
10 (10-00) Moffitt King & Kristien Kemmer Shaw
10 (09-01) Moffitt King & Valerie Ziegenfuss
10 (07-03) Moffitt King & Lesley Turner Bowrey
10 (06-04) Darlene Hard & Bueno
10 (06-04) Fry & Osborne duPont

09 (09-00) Evert & Carling Bassett
09 (09-00) Evert & Jo Durie
09 (08-01) Alice Marble & Bundy Cheney
09 (08-01) Betz & Hart
09 (08-01) Connolly & Fry
09 (08-01) Hart & Baker Fleitz
09 (05-04) Connolly & Baker Fleitz

08 (08-00) Evert & Laura DuPont
08 (07-01) Evert & Lisa Bonder Kriess
08 (05-03) Karen Hantze Susman & Moffitt King

07 (07-00) Baker Fleitz & Hard
07 (07-00) Evert & Krantzcke
07 (07-00) Evert & Kathleen Horvath
07 (07-00) Evert & Mary Joe Fernandez
07 (06-01) Brough & Hard
07 (06-01) Connolly & Brough
07 (05-02) Smith Court & Hard
07 (05-02) Austin & Moffitt King

06 (06-00) Evert & Rosalyn Fairbank Nideffer
06 (06-00) Evert & Terry Holladay
06 (06-00) Marble & Palfrey Fabyan Cooke
06 (04-02) Hana Mandlikova & Moffitt King
06 (03-03) Baker Fleitz & Osborne duPont
06 (03-03) Helen Jacobs & Palfrey Fabyan Cooke

05 (04-01) Angela Mortimer & Althea Gibson
05 (04-01) Bundy Cheney & Moffitt King
05 (04-01) Evert & Eisel Curtis Beattie
05 (04-01) Hard & Moffitt King
05 (03-02) Bundy Cheney & Fry
05 (03-02) Connolly & Bundy Cheney

04 (04-00) Connolly & Gibson
04 (04-00) Marble & Betz
04 (03-01) Baker Fleitz & Gibson

03 (03-00) Baker Fleitz & Bueno
03 (03-00) Palfrey Fabyan Cooke & Osborne duPont
03 (02-01) Hantze Susman & Richey

02 (02-00) Baker Fleitz & Hantze Susman
02 (02-00) Gibson & Christine Truman Janes
02 (02-00) Hard & Hantze Susman
02 (02-00) Jacobs & Bundy Cheney

01 (01-00) Betz & Fry
01 (01-00) Betz & Jacobs
01 (01-00) Brough & Haydon Jones
01 (01-00) Connolly & Hard
01 (01-00) Dorothy Head Knode & Moffitt King
01 (01-00) Fry & Hard
01 (01-00) Gibson & Haydon Jones
01 (01-00) Gibson & Sandra Reynolds Price
01 (01-00) Hart & Hard
01 (01-00) Manuela Maleeva Fragniere & Moffitt King
01 (01-00) Marble & Brough
01 (01-00) Mortimer & Bundy Cheney
01 (01-00) Osborne duPont & Moffitt King
01 (01-00) Suzanne Lenglen & Helen Wills Moody
01 (01-00) Truman Janes & Bundy Cheney
01 (01-00) Yola Ramirez Ochoa & Moffitt King

00 (00-00) Wills Moody & Betz
00 (00-00) Wills Moody & Marble
00 (00-00) Wills Moody & Palfrey Fabyan Cooke

Last edited by Austimrunner1; Jul 3rd, 2019 at 10:36 PM.
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