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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old Jun 17th, 2015, 05:45 PM Thread Starter
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Navratilova vs Graf- U.S Open head to head

One interesting thing about the Graf-Navratilova head to head is their U.S Open head to head. It is 4-1 for Martina, and Martina choked a 6-3, 4-2 lead away in the only loss. This is particularly interesting since Martina was 30 or older at the time of 3 of the 5 encounters, and the U.S Open would probably be their most neutral meeting point with Wimbledon and the YEC favoring Martina, and the Australian and French Opens favoring Graf.

Yet on the other side Graf is 2-1 vs Martina at Wimbledon. Martina was also 30 or older for all 3 matches, but Graf was a complete novice still on grass in the first one and only loss. So while she didn't even beat totally prime Martina there (or get the chance to really) she seems to compare more favorably there than the U.S Open where she did surprisingly poorly.

Does the U.S Open head to head indicate Martina would have a clear edge with both in their primes together had they faced off? Especialy since Graf seems to be the hypothetical underdog in all her prime on prime matchups- Seles as proven in 90-93, Williams sisters or so it seems, now Navratilova. Evert it seems clear she would have the head to head edge on prime to prime though.
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old Jun 17th, 2015, 07:01 PM
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Re: Navratilova vs Graf- U.S Open head to head

Wasn't Steffi just 16 and then 17 in the first two matches? I don't think anyone has a clear edge over her at any time. Wasn't she about even in wins 90-93 with Seles? She beat Monica both times they played in 91, as Seles did her the previous year. Spilt matches in 92 and unfortunately only played one more match in 93, which Monica won. There's no clear edge there. That would be Martina vs Chris 1983-84 seasons.
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old Jun 17th, 2015, 07:07 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Navratilova vs Graf- U.S Open head to head

She was supposed to lose to Martina in 86 and 85 for sure. She did as expected, and even had match points in 86 apparently. She was supposed to win in 87, 89, 91, and was probably supposably more prime than Martina those years, and lost 2 of 3, and had to come from well back and need Navratilova to apparently have choked a large lead in the one victory. So she didnt fare well at all vs Martina at the U.S Open considering.

I agree there is no phase Graf would fare as poorly vs any player as Chris did vs Martina in that 2 year stretch of 13 consecutive losses though.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old Jun 17th, 2015, 07:30 PM
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Re: Navratilova vs Graf- U.S Open head to head

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Wasn't Steffi just 16 and then 17 in the first two matches? I don't think anyone has a clear edge over her at any time. Wasn't she about even in wins 90-93 with Seles? She beat Monica both times they played in 91, as Seles did her the previous year. Spilt matches in 92 and unfortunately only played one more match in 93, which Monica won. There's no clear edge there. That would be Martina vs Chris 1983-84 seasons.
Will you all please stop feeding the multiple account troll? I know we are unlikely to really get rid of him/her, but it probably isn't a good idea to encourage multiple accounters.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old Jun 24th, 2015, 04:42 AM
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Thumbs up Re: Navratilova vs Graf- U.S Open head to head

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Originally Posted by mattosgrant View Post
One interesting thing about the Graf-Navratilova head to head is their U.S Open head to head. It is 4-1 for Martina, and Martina choked a 6-3, 4-2 lead away in the only loss. This is particularly interesting since Martina was 30 or older at the time of 3 of the 5 encounters, and the U.S Open would probably be their most neutral meeting point with Wimbledon and the YEC favoring Martina, and the Australian and French Opens favoring Graf.

Yet on the other side Graf is 2-1 vs Martina at Wimbledon. Martina was also 30 or older for all 3 matches, but Graf was a complete novice still on grass in the first one and only loss. So while she didn't even beat totally prime Martina there (or get the chance to really) she seems to compare more favorably there than the U.S Open where she did surprisingly poorly.

Does the U.S Open head to head indicate Martina would have a clear edge with both in their primes together had they faced off? Especialy since Graf seems to be the hypothetical underdog in all her prime on prime matchups- Seles as proven in 90-93, Williams sisters or so it seems, now Navratilova. Evert it seems clear she would have the head to head edge on prime to prime though.
Great Post! But don't expect a GraFan Troll to grasp this point!
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old Jun 24th, 2015, 05:00 AM
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Re: Navratilova vs Graf- U.S Open head to head

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Does the U.S Open head to head indicate Martina would have a clear edge with both in their primes together had they faced off? Especialy since Graf seems to be the hypothetical underdog in all her prime on prime matchups- Seles as proven in 90-93, Williams sisters or so it seems, now Navratilova. Evert it seems clear she would have the head to head edge on prime to prime though.
Also interesting was that Navratilova (like Monica Seles in 90-93) had a winning advantage h2h record versus prime Graf at the Grand Slams where it counted most.
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old Jun 24th, 2015, 08:15 PM
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Re: Navratilova vs Graf- U.S Open head to head

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Great Post! But don't expect a GraFan Troll to grasp this point!
TennisForum.com might have over 50,000 members worldwide, but half of them are your multiple accounts.

Noting that Martina Navratilova's birthday is October 18, 1956 and that the U.S. Open finishes in early September, let us take a look at her early career USO results:

1973 (64 draw) lost in 1st round to Veronica Burton
1974 (64 draw) lost in R16 to Julie Heldman
1975 (64 draw) lost in SF to Chris Evert
1976 (96 draw) lost in 1st round to Janet Newberry
1977 (96 draw) lost in SF to Wendy Turnbull
1978 (96 draw) lost in SF to Pam Shriver
1979 (96 draw) lost in SF to Tracy Austin
1980 (96 draw) lost in R16 to Hana Mandlikova
1981 (128 draw) lost in FR to Tracy Austin
1982 (128 draw) lost in QF to Pam Shriver
1983 (128 draw) Champion

It's remarkable that it took her until she was almost 27 years old and in her 11th appearance in the main draw before she finally broke through. Also remarkable was that she wasn't even losing to established all-time great players, but instead to age peers or next wave or "Who?" players. Evert in 1975 was on her way to winning only her first USO, and had only three Slam singles titles to her credit; at that stage, she was no Doris Hart. Navratilova herself, at the time of her 25th birthday, only had two Slam singles titles with a third to come a few months later -- not exactly record-rewriting results. Hana Mandlikova had won four Slam singles titles by the time she was 25.

But then different players mature physically, emotionally, and gamewise at different rates. As do they wear and/or burn out at different rates. As do some find that their walkabout years extend their productive careers while others prefer to put in a solid 10 years and retire while still youngish. Some want to play until they can't get into prequalifying for a $10K event. There is no "one way" to do things in tennis.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old Jun 25th, 2015, 02:00 AM
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Re: Navratilova vs Graf- U.S Open head to head

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TennisForum.com might have over 50,000 members worldwide, but half of them are your multiple accounts.
More nonsense and typical behavior from a desperate Grafan troll clown. Please re-post when you're serious!
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old Jun 25th, 2015, 10:35 AM
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Re: Navratilova vs Graf- U.S Open head to head

Trolls (and the use of the word) belong in fairy tales.

Everyone be polite before I turn into an ogre.

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