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post #406 of 419 (permalink) Old Feb 5th, 2015, 02:32 AM
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Re: 1984

Sukova helped Evert lengthen one of her best records-winning a slam every consecutive year for 13 years.

1974 to 1986 is a lot better than 1974-1983.

She was so close to losing it in 1984. Tough as Chris was, I believe Martina would have taken the final-and THE Grand Slam-and with it big GOAT points.

Just a few points and tennis history turned on a dime.
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post #407 of 419 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 2015, 03:38 PM
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Re: 1984

Sukova could have won the final over Chris as well. She won the 1st set and had her serve not completely deserted her the last 2 sets she had a good shot.
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post #408 of 419 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 2015, 03:53 PM
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Re: 1984

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Sukova could have won the final over Chris as well. She won the 1st set and had her serve not completely deserted her the last 2 sets she had a good shot

True. It's one of those fun "what ifs" to imagine. Had Sukova won how would the rest of her career played out?
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post #409 of 419 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 2015, 04:02 PM
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Re: 1984

She probably could have won between 2-4 major if she got a major win early. She was never going to be a dominant player clearly, and Graf was always going to be a horrendous matchup for her. With the change to graphite she was never going to have the longevity to take much advantage of Martina and Chris aging out of their primes either. However confidence was a bit of a problem for her, and getting a slam win at 17 by beating prime Chris and prime Martina, would have bolstered her enough to take a couple more of her future chances. Her last real chance of a slam was the 1990 Australian Open when she let the end of the 3rd set slip vs a well out of form Graf, and would have almost certainly beaten a green Fernandez in the final.

Someone like Sabatini is still really a better player and won only 1 slam (although that is one of the biggest mysteries ever IMO) though, so it is impossible to say for sure.
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post #410 of 419 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 2015, 08:52 PM
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Re: 1984

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Someone like Sabatini is still really a better player and won only 1 slam (although that is one of the biggest mysteries ever IMO) though, so it is impossible to say for sure.
Gaby had a "for sale" sign stuck on her by Papa Sabatini. That child was WAY overplayed for her young age.
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post #411 of 419 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 2015, 09:01 PM
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Re: 1984

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Gaby had a "for sale" sign stuck on her by Papa Sabatini. That child was WAY overplayed for her young age.
Yeah for sure, but how much that contributed to her going 3-15 in slam semis, and how much of it was just mental frailty, weaknesses never addressed in her game, or just the tough era she got stuck in, is hard to say. It probably contributed largely to her relatively young age burnout and retiring by 26, having been a shadow of herself for atleast 3 and a half years by that point.
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post #412 of 419 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2015, 12:05 AM
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Re: 1984

That was so depressing to me, gabys swift decline. When poor monica got stabbed I thought gaby might have a chance at the French since she came so close to beating her in '92, and it always seemed like a given that gaby would take at least one French! I think that Fernandez debacle did her in just as much as anything. Sorry, off subject.
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post #413 of 419 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2015, 10:33 AM
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Re: 1984

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She probably could have won between 2-4 major if she got a major win early. She was never going to be a dominant player clearly, and Graf was always going to be a horrendous matchup for her. With the change to graphite she was never going to have the longevity to take much advantage of Martina and Chris aging out of their primes either. However confidence was a bit of a problem for her, and getting a slam win at 17 by beating prime Chris and prime Martina, would have bolstered her enough to take a couple more of her future chances. Her last real chance of a slam was the 1990 Australian Open when she let the end of the 3rd set slip vs a well out of form Graf, and would have almost certainly beaten a green Fernandez in the final.

Someone like Sabatini is still really a better player and won only 1 slam (although that is one of the biggest mysteries ever IMO) though, so it is impossible to say for sure.
Helena never really played her best at Wimbledon unfortunately which after the 84 AO would've been a major that most would've tagged her as a contender. Despite the big serve, I think her very large swings and movement let her down. Her best chance was 87, when she beat Chris and Martina at Eastbourne, but lost a cliff hanger to Shriver 10-8 in the quarters (after Pam had won a 10-8 match against Hanika the round before).

Yes, she should have really beat Graf in 1990 at the AO. She admitted she choked at 4 all in the 3rd vs Steffi.

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post #414 of 419 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2015, 08:13 PM
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Re: 1984

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That was so depressing to me, gabys swift decline. When poor monica got stabbed I thought gaby might have a chance at the French since she came so close to beating her in '92, and it always seemed like a given that gaby would take at least one French! I think that Fernandez debacle did her in just as much as anything. Sorry, off subject.
IMO Sabatini was already on decline before RG 93. I am not sure if even without the Fernandez debacle she would capatilize much on the Seles stabbing as far as big titles, especialy RG, since Graf had already begun to firmly turn the matchup with Gaby back in her favor. Graf had crushed Gaby a couple times earlier in 93 including a couple bagel sets, even if Gaby did give her 1 close final (still had not beaten her in over a year by then though). Sanchez was always starting to gain favor over Gaby in their recent head to heads, and unlike Gaby who had already peaked/started a slow decline, Sanchez was only really coming into her own and getting better starting around now.

However yes the RG 93 debacle was a disaster for Gaby and pretty much ended any home of her being a serious slam contender again. That RG might have been one of her best possible chances too as Sanchez was in horrible form that event and she would have played her next, and Graf was also subpar. She probably could have atleast made the final against Graf.

After her very strong 87, 88, and 89 years, then a brief slump, Gaby IMO hit her absolute peak from 90 U.S Open-91 Wimbledon. After that 91 Wimbledon final vs Graf where she served for it twice and lost, she had her first very small decline. Then after blowing the 92 RG semis vs Seles from 4-2 up, she had a further decline. The 93 RG was the third and final blow, that really accelerated the big decline though. Basically each loss took something out of her, and she came back a bit weaker thereafter from it.
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post #415 of 419 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2015, 08:17 PM
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Re: 1984

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Helena never really played her best at Wimbledon unfortunately which after the 84 AO would've been a major that most would've tagged her as a contender. Despite the big serve, I think her very large swings and movement let her down. Her best chance was 87, when she beat Chris and Martina at Eastbourne, but lost a cliff hanger to Shriver 10-8 in the quarters (after Pam had won a 10-8 match against Hanika the round before).

Yes, she should have really beat Graf in 1990 at the AO. She admitted she choked at 4 all in the 3rd vs Steffi.
Helena's best chance at Wimbledon could have been 87 when she came in on great form, winning Eastborne by beating Evert and Navratilova back to back. Mandilikova didn't even play that Wimbledon. She got super bad luck though drawing her career nemesis Shriver in her quarter, then her ultra nemesis Graf as the potential semi had she gotten there. She lost an amazing match to Shriver, 8-6 in the 3rd, and even had she won she would have faced Graf who she lost her last 21 matches to. Had she been in the other half with Evert and Navratilova, and someone taken Graf out for her (possibly Sabatini who took Graf to 3 sets) she would have had a real chance.

Wimbledon grass is totally different from Australian Open grass. Helena had problems with agility so I think the fast slick grass would be hard for her to deal with. Australian grass is thick but the bounce is better, and the footing is a little easier. I can see why hard courts and sometimes indoors, along with bouncier Australian grass, where her best courts.
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post #416 of 419 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2015, 10:45 PM
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Re: 1984

It is such a shame Sabatini was unable to serve out for victory in the 1991 Wimbledon final, because when you look at her talent, she should really have had at least one US Open and one Wimbledon to look back on. I feel she belongs more in the same group as Hana Mandlikova (four GS) and Virginia Wade (three GS). I feel she should also have won the 1987 French Open. The SFs had Graf against Sabatini and Evert against Navratilova. But the two clay-court specialists lost -- Evert was completely dismantled and Sabatini lost a close match to Graf (in the final Graf was lucky to win and got a break in the third set because Martina was put off by someone calling out when making a second serve -- I would have replayed the point). Now, if Gaby had just won the 1987 French Open, it would have done wonders for her confidence and she might have also ended her career on three or four GS titles. She is a little like Evonne Cawley, who criminally missed out on US and FO titles which surely fate intended her to have. I guess nice girls, like good boys, also finish second, sigh...
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post #417 of 419 (permalink) Old Feb 17th, 2015, 08:49 AM
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Re: 1984

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Originally Posted by aarynginamarie View Post
Helena's best chance at Wimbledon could have been 87 when she came in on great form, winning Eastborne by beating Evert and Navratilova back to back. Mandilikova didn't even play that Wimbledon. She got super bad luck though drawing her career nemesis Shriver in her quarter, then her ultra nemesis Graf as the potential semi had she gotten there. She lost an amazing match to Shriver, 8-6 in the 3rd, and even had she won she would have faced Graf who she lost her last 21 matches to. Had she been in the other half with Evert and Navratilova, and someone taken Graf out for her (possibly Sabatini who took Graf to 3 sets) she would have had a real chance.

Wimbledon grass is totally different from Australian Open grass. Helena had problems with agility so I think the fast slick grass would be hard for her to deal with. Australian grass is thick but the bounce is better, and the footing is a little easier. I can see why hard courts and sometimes indoors, along with bouncier Australian grass, where her best courts.
It was 10-8 against Shriver in that match and Pam saved a match point too.

Helena never passed the QF's on grass after 84 final which many would find surprising after her stunning run that year. Albeit the Aussie was only played twice more on grass after that year. The AO wasn't played in 86. Helena lost in 4R to Liz Smylie in 87 after leading 4-1 in the 3rd which was a shock.

I think Helena had such a love for Australia too, and seemed to play her best here. I'm trying to think if she ever won a lead-up tournie in oz. She spearheaded Czechoslovakia to a Fed Cup win in 88 in Melbourne.

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post #418 of 419 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 2019, 09:18 PM
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Re: 1984

The Pretty Polly Classic - Tuesday 23rd October 1984 - Order Of Play

Court One

Final Round Qualifying Competition
Sue Barker v Virginia Ruzici
Reny Uys
Terry Holliday v Jo Durie
Barbara Potter v Yvonne Vermaak
Kathy Jordan & Pam Shriver v Terry Holliday & I Kuczynska

Court Two

Final Round Qualifying Competition
Kathy Horvath v Terry Phelps
Beth Herr v Alycia Moulton
Camille Benjamin v Andrea Temesvari
Andrea Leand v Joanne Russell
Alycia Moulton & Paula Smith v Jennifer Mundel & Rene Uys

Tennis Tipping
Singles (Rank : 18) (High : 1 - 11 weeks)

Titles (13) - 2012 - New Haven, SF - WIMBLEDON, 2013 - Beijing, GB Fed Cup, 2014 - Brisbane, Dubai, Stuttgart, Rome, YEC Singapore, 2015 - Stanford, GB Fed Cup, Antayla, 2016 - Bogota, Olympics, 2017 - Nurnberg, QF - FRENCH OPEN, Milovice, 2018 - Stuttgart
Doubles - (Rank : 2) (High : 1 - 32 weeks)
Titles - (25) - 2010 - Bogota, Bad Gastein, Karuizawa, Montpellier, 2011 - Bogota, Birmingham, Poitiers, Bratislava, 2012 - Opole, 2013 - Bad Gastein, Bertioga, 2014 - WIMBLEDON, Bad Gastein, 2015 - Nottingham, Ortisei, 2016 - Brisbane, Glasgow, St Petersburg, Toyota, 2017 - Contrexeville, Bastad, Stanford, Balatonboglar, Hammamet, 2018 - Eastbourne, Antayla, 2019 - AUSTRALIAN OPEN
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post #419 of 419 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 2019, 09:21 PM
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Re: 1984

The Pretty Polly Classic - Wednesday 24th October 1984 - Order Of Play

Court One

Anna Maria Cecchini v Virginia Wade
Barbara Potter v Catherine Tanvier
Sara Gomer v Anne Hobbs
Elise Burgin v Jo Durie
Sylvia Hanika v Mima Jausovec
Followed by Three First Round Doubles Matches

Court Two

Pascale Paradis v Jamie Golder
Terry Phelps v Virginia Ruzici
Katerina Skronska v Sabrina Goles
Catarina Lindquist v Steffi Graf
Joanne Russell v Alycia Moulton
Followed by Three First Round Doubles Matches

Tennis Tipping
Singles (Rank : 18) (High : 1 - 11 weeks)

Titles (13) - 2012 - New Haven, SF - WIMBLEDON, 2013 - Beijing, GB Fed Cup, 2014 - Brisbane, Dubai, Stuttgart, Rome, YEC Singapore, 2015 - Stanford, GB Fed Cup, Antayla, 2016 - Bogota, Olympics, 2017 - Nurnberg, QF - FRENCH OPEN, Milovice, 2018 - Stuttgart
Doubles - (Rank : 2) (High : 1 - 32 weeks)
Titles - (25) - 2010 - Bogota, Bad Gastein, Karuizawa, Montpellier, 2011 - Bogota, Birmingham, Poitiers, Bratislava, 2012 - Opole, 2013 - Bad Gastein, Bertioga, 2014 - WIMBLEDON, Bad Gastein, 2015 - Nottingham, Ortisei, 2016 - Brisbane, Glasgow, St Petersburg, Toyota, 2017 - Contrexeville, Bastad, Stanford, Balatonboglar, Hammamet, 2018 - Eastbourne, Antayla, 2019 - AUSTRALIAN OPEN
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