4th best player of 1998 - TennisForum.com
View Poll Results: 4th best player of 1998
Seles 2 15.38%
Sanchez Vicario 5 38.46%
Venus Williams 4 30.77%
other 2 15.38%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 2010, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,286
                     
4th best player of 1998

Obviously the top 3 players of 1998 were Davenport, Hingis, and Novotna. So who was the 4th best player of the year- Venus Williams, Seles, or Sanchez Vicario.
justineheninfan is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 2010, 03:52 PM
Moderator - BFTP
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 24,826
                     
Re: 4th best player of 1998

The slam winner (Sanchez at the French) is my clear choice for #4. I recall being gutted that Monica ran out of steam yet again in a 3 set final. I've always felt that an in shape and injury free Seles would have won the 98 French and the 95 US finals-but that's going down the path into "what if" land.

As she did so many times Sanchez-Vicario fought like a demon possessed and got rewarded for it. Her tenacity is a good model for anyone to follow.
Rollo is offline  
post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 2010, 04:07 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,286
                     
Re: 4th best player of 1998

I felt overall Venus and Seles were better players than Sanchez at that point. Seles killed Sanchez in their other matches that year IIRC, and Venus beat Sanchez everywhere after Sydney including even in their lone match on clay while also beating Seles easily in their only meeting of the year. Still because she won the French the stats would probably favor Sanchez. Then again Venus won Miami and had many other strong results, and Seles won Canada and also had some other strong showings.
justineheninfan is offline  
 
post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 11th, 2010, 09:59 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 217
                     
Re: 4th best player of 1998

Weighted ranking for 1998:

Hingis,_Martina______________18.37281
Davenport,_Lindsay___________17.74515
Novotna,_Jana________________13.89257
Williams,_Venus______________12.92855
Sanchez_Vicario,_Arantxa_____12.58874
Seles,_Monica________________11.19735
Schnyder,_Patty______________10.9788
Martinez,_Conchita___________10.40827
Pierce,_Mary_________________10.21926
Graf,_Steffi_________________10.05666
mick1303 is offline  
post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 11th, 2010, 10:21 AM
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 27,122
 
Re: 4th best player of 1998

It's difficult to argue for Seles as she missed a lot of the season and she wasn't that great apart from in Paris. Venus seems to have had the most consistent year but lacked any major wins aside from Key Biscayne.

So I vote for ASV.

I'm not convinced the argument for Novotna being way ahead at no.3 is actually that convincing.

Apart from a good grass season she only really performed at a couple of weak fielded tournaments and that US open semi choke. ASV beat her twice that year and really isn't that far behind IMHO.
Kart is offline  
post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 11th, 2010, 11:34 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,619
                     
Re: 4th best player of 1998

I feel any ranking has to be based on year-round performance.

Of course, the Slams are the most important and have to be weighted accordingly BUT all other results count too.

Without seeing the full records in front of you of all players involved I wouldn't attempt to judge them relatively.

Margaret Thatcher - Michele Bachmann two strong women of our time.
chris whiteside is offline  
post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 11th, 2010, 12:10 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 217
                     
Re: 4th best player of 1998

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris whiteside View Post
I feel any ranking has to be based on year-round performance.

Of course, the Slams are the most important and have to be weighted accordingly BUT all other results count too.

Without seeing the full records in front of you of all players involved I wouldn't attempt to judge them relatively.
I base my 1998 ranking on 53 tournaments plus Fed Cup – World Group I and II (including playoffs). This is a full calendar (w/o challengers and lower divisions) – 2180 matches.
mick1303 is offline  
post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 11th, 2010, 09:25 PM
Senior Member
 
samn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: London
Posts: 2,960
                     
Re: 4th best player of 1998

My recollection of 1998 beyond Hingis and Davenport is a bit hazy. (Apart from the beatdown Graf delivered Hingis in the Philly quarters, that is. ) Was that the year Venus Williams won the Italian Open? Or was that in 1999? Wasn't 1998 the year when Venus defeated Kournikova to win the Lipton final? As I remember it, she also lost to the eventual champ at Wimbledon (Novotna in t the QF) and the US Open (Davenport in the SF) and had decent showings in some other big events (Australian Open QF - lost to Davenport; French Open QF - lost to Hingis). Although she didn't win a Slam that year she seemed to be solidly established in the top 5 and her losses at the majors were to quality opposition. Since I can't recall any of the other players being consistently better (ASV's French title seemed the exception rather than the rule in an otherwise spotty year for her), I'd have to go with Venus as my #4 for 1998.

Best left-right combination by a German (and that includes Max Schmeling): Steffi Graf. All she did in 1987 was knock Navratilova out of #1 and try to knock Evert out of the sport. (Mike Lupica in "The Best and Worst of Tennis in 1987", World Tennis)

"A couple of years ago, we nicknamed Steffi Graf's forehand 'Jaws'. And that music would go perfectly when she starts running in to the net, swarming on that little ball." (JoAnne Russell, during the 1988 Wimbledon final between Graf and Navratilova)
samn is offline  
post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 11th, 2010, 09:38 PM
Senior Member
 
samn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: London
Posts: 2,960
                     
Re: 4th best player of 1998

Ok, after I voted for Venus, I looked up her 1998 record to find out if she did win the Italian Open. She didn't. Hingis beat her in the final.

Venus's record for 1998
Sydney F: lost to Sanchez Vicario (beat Hingis in the second round)
Australian Open QF: lost to Davenport
Oklahoma City WON: d. Joanette Kruger (beat Davenport in the semis)
Indian Wells SF: lost to Hingis
Lipton WON: d. Kournikova (beat Hingis in the semis)
Italian Open F: lost to Hingis (beat Sanchez Vicario in the semis)
French Open QF: lost to Hingis
Eastbourne 2R: lost to Zvereva
Wimbledon QF: lost to Novotna
Stanford F: lost to Davenport (beat Seles in the semis)
San Diego QF: lost to Pierce (retired hurt at 0-4 in the third set)
US Open SF: lost to Davenport (beat Pierce in the R16 and Sanchez Vicario in the QF)
Filderstadt R32: lost to Van Roost
Zurich F: lost to Davenport (beat Pierce in the QF)
Moscow SF: lost to Pierce

Her title count is very low indeed: only one Tier I event and one Tier III event. She was clearly a few levels below the Big Two, but did beat them both at least once each. Her only bad losses over the year were to Zvereva (who was in good form that summer and would go on to beat both Graf and Seles to reach the Wimbledon semis over the following fortnight), Pierce, and Van Roost. But Pierce herself was in pretty good form that fall, winning Moscow and Luxembourg back-to-back. The Van Roost loss is a truly bad one, but I'd wager that both Seles and Sanchez Vicario had more than a couple of similar bad losses each. (Besides Van Roost also went on to beat Hingis in the quarter-finals and lost to Testud in the semis. Testud then played spoiler by beating the newly crowned #1, Davenport, in the final.)

Best left-right combination by a German (and that includes Max Schmeling): Steffi Graf. All she did in 1987 was knock Navratilova out of #1 and try to knock Evert out of the sport. (Mike Lupica in "The Best and Worst of Tennis in 1987", World Tennis)

"A couple of years ago, we nicknamed Steffi Graf's forehand 'Jaws'. And that music would go perfectly when she starts running in to the net, swarming on that little ball." (JoAnne Russell, during the 1988 Wimbledon final between Graf and Navratilova)

Last edited by samn; Oct 11th, 2010 at 09:46 PM.
samn is offline  
post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 11th, 2010, 10:23 PM
Sabatini lover Forever
 
spencercarlos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Venezuela
Posts: 15,213
                     
Re: 4th best player of 1998

Quote:
Originally Posted by samn View Post
My recollection of 1998 beyond Hingis and Davenport is a bit hazy. (Apart from the beatdown Graf delivered Hingis in the Philly quarters, that is. ) Was that the year Venus Williams won the Italian Open? Or was that in 1999? Wasn't 1998 the year when Venus defeated Kournikova to win the Lipton final? As I remember it, she also lost to the eventual champ at Wimbledon (Novotna in t the QF) and the US Open (Davenport in the SF) and had decent showings in some other big events (Australian Open QF - lost to Davenport; French Open QF - lost to Hingis). Although she didn't win a Slam that year she seemed to be solidly established in the top 5 and her losses at the majors were to quality opposition. Since I can't recall any of the other players being consistently better (ASV's French title seemed the exception rather than the rule in an otherwise spotty year for her), I'd have to go with Venus as my #4 for 1998.
I think you are wrong this time.

Ok Arantxa won a slam in 1998, but she had QF at the Australian Open, same as Venus, Qf at Wimbledon same as Venus, and QF losing effort to Venus at the Usopen, so clearly Arantxa had a greater grand slam year than Venus.

I even bet that Arantxa had a greater grand slma year than Novotna.

Gabriela Sabatini 2006 HOF
18 Grand Slam SF´s, Won 27 titles, 1 GS Sin, 1 GS in Dubs,2 Masters
Sabatini vs Martinez ?
Seasons in the top ten: Sabatini 10 Conchita 9
Straight Seasons in the top ten: Sabatini 10 Conchita 6
Seasons in the top 5: Sabatini 6 Conchita 5
Straight seasons in the top 5: Sabatini 6 Conchita 4
Tier II and above titles
Sabatini 24 Martinez 17
Record at the Masters
Sabatini has 2 titles 2 Runner up and 3 SF
Martinez has 0 titles, 0 RU, and 0 Sf
Record against the best players
Sabatini 40% Martinez 21%
Head to Head
Sabatini leads 9-6 over Martinez
FWTT Hard 111(111 + ny)Carpet 104(104 + ny)Clay 107(107 + 4) Grass 100(100 ny)
spencercarlos is offline  
post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 12th, 2010, 06:48 AM
Senior Member
 
samn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: London
Posts: 2,960
                     
Re: 4th best player of 1998

Quote:
Originally Posted by spencercarlos View Post
I think you are wrong this time.

Ok Arantxa won a slam in 1998, but she had QF at the Australian Open, same as Venus, Qf at Wimbledon same as Venus, and QF losing effort to Venus at the Usopen, so clearly Arantxa had a greater grand slam year than Venus.

I even bet that Arantxa had a greater grand slma year than Novotna.
Sanchez Vicario
Won: Sydney (Tier II), French Open (GS)
Final: Eastbourne (Tier II), Montreal (Tier I), Tokyo (Tier II)
Semi-final: Lipton (Tier I), Rome (Tier I), Los Angeles (Tier II), Filderstadt (Tier II)
Quarter-final: Australian Open (GS), Wimbledon (GS), US Open (GS)

Losses: 3x Martina Hingis (*), 3x Monica Seles (*), 2x Anna Kournikova, 2x Venus Williams, 1x Anke Huber, 1x Andrea Glass, 1x Patty Schnyder, 1x Jana Novotna, 1x Julie Halard Decugis, 1x Lindsay Davenport, 1x Anna-Gaelle Sidot, 1x Amanda Coetzer, 1x Irina Spirlea

(*) Includes one Fed Cup rubber

lost to Huber, Hingis, Venus Williams, Spirlea, and Kournikova at the Australian Open, Wimbledon, US Open, WTA Championships, and Miami respectively.

Not as bad a year for ASV as I expected. I was probably thinking of one of the later years when I remembered her playing piddly little Tier III clay court events in places like Egypt. Her record seems to be littered with more bad losses than Williams, but she also played a lot more than Williams on both clay and indoors. Curiously enough ASV seemed to be most consistent on hard courts in 1998, getting to a lot of semi-finals and finals, and losing to top opposition.

Having looked at both of their records, I could just as easily pick ASV as the #4, but I think I'll stay with Venus. ;-)

Best left-right combination by a German (and that includes Max Schmeling): Steffi Graf. All she did in 1987 was knock Navratilova out of #1 and try to knock Evert out of the sport. (Mike Lupica in "The Best and Worst of Tennis in 1987", World Tennis)

"A couple of years ago, we nicknamed Steffi Graf's forehand 'Jaws'. And that music would go perfectly when she starts running in to the net, swarming on that little ball." (JoAnne Russell, during the 1988 Wimbledon final between Graf and Navratilova)
samn is offline  
post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 12th, 2010, 06:59 AM
Sabatini lover Forever
 
spencercarlos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Venezuela
Posts: 15,213
                     
Re: 4th best player of 1998

Quote:
Originally Posted by samn View Post
Sanchez Vicario
Won: Sydney (Tier II), French Open (GS)
Final: Eastbourne (Tier II), Montreal (Tier I), Tokyo (Tier II)
Semi-final: Lipton (Tier I), Rome (Tier I), Los Angeles (Tier II), Filderstadt (Tier II)
Quarter-final: Australian Open (GS), Wimbledon (GS), US Open (GS)

Losses: 3x Martina Hingis (*), 3x Monica Seles (*), 2x Anna Kournikova, 2x Venus Williams, 1x Anke Huber, 1x Andrea Glass, 1x Patty Schnyder, 1x Jana Novotna, 1x Julie Halard Decugis, 1x Lindsay Davenport, 1x Anna-Gaelle Sidot, 1x Amanda Coetzer, 1x Irina Spirlea

(*) Includes one Fed Cup rubber

lost to Huber, Hingis, Venus Williams, Spirlea, and Kournikova at the Australian Open, Wimbledon, US Open, WTA Championships, and Miami respectively.

Not as bad a year for ASV as I expected. I was probably thinking of one of the later years when I remembered her playing piddly little Tier III clay court events in places like Egypt. Her record seems to be littered with more bad losses than Williams, but she also played a lot more than Williams on both clay and indoors. Curiously enough ASV seemed to be most consistent on hard courts in 1998, getting to a lot of semi-finals and finals, and losing to top opposition.

Having looked at both of their records, I could just as easily pick ASV as the #4, but I think I'll stay with Venus. ;-)
Its ok.
But don´t forget that in 1998 Venus lost matches 6-1 6-2 to Zvereva and Van Roost. Even a 6-1 6-3 to Arantxa in the Sydney final. While Arantxa was not losing like that in 98 IMO..

Gabriela Sabatini 2006 HOF
18 Grand Slam SF´s, Won 27 titles, 1 GS Sin, 1 GS in Dubs,2 Masters
Sabatini vs Martinez ?
Seasons in the top ten: Sabatini 10 Conchita 9
Straight Seasons in the top ten: Sabatini 10 Conchita 6
Seasons in the top 5: Sabatini 6 Conchita 5
Straight seasons in the top 5: Sabatini 6 Conchita 4
Tier II and above titles
Sabatini 24 Martinez 17
Record at the Masters
Sabatini has 2 titles 2 Runner up and 3 SF
Martinez has 0 titles, 0 RU, and 0 Sf
Record against the best players
Sabatini 40% Martinez 21%
Head to Head
Sabatini leads 9-6 over Martinez
FWTT Hard 111(111 + ny)Carpet 104(104 + ny)Clay 107(107 + 4) Grass 100(100 ny)
spencercarlos is offline  
post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 13th, 2010, 02:28 AM
Senior Member
 
R-K-M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Andhra Pradesh
Posts: 395
                     
Re: 4th best player of 1998

1998 is the year of Davenport.She got the super spirit from Florida final against Venus Williams.where her score 1-4 in 3rd set and from them she got a god's help.After that match,she said that she will won number 1 rank,if she play the same like that match.

Won next 2 tourneys too and after 23 matches,she lost to Steffi Graf at Pilot Pen tournament.As a Graf fan,it's little taste of Steffi's real game to Lindsay. Offcourse ,Lindsay won US open and after some time,also got top rank from Martina Hingis and finished the year at number 1.

BTW,Graf defeated all top-4 players in a 7days period at the end of year and you know Steffi still didn't get well from her surgeries.

For me,Graf is 4th best in 1998,even she won only 3 titles at the year!

Steffi Graf - My Best: "Steffi is the goddess of Tennis" : John McEnroe
"She let her racket do the talking. I've always looked up to her and the way she approached the game" : Pete Sampras
"In my opinion she 's the best lady that has ever played" : Andre Agassi
"She's one of the greatest players, maybe even greatest" : Richard Krajicek
"Steffi is the best all around player of all-time, regardless of surfaces" : Martina Navratilova
"Steffi is definitely the greatest singles player ever" : Billie Jean King
R-K-M is offline  
post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 13th, 2010, 04:33 PM
Senior Member
 
gabybackhand's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,256
                     
Re: 4th best player of 1998

I still remember that exhibition of her class by Graf. Amazing! And she could beat the 4 top players because she is THE top player, no matter her given ranking. Oh I miss those incredibly great real Nº1s.

Witness of an Era of Grandeur
Chris the Ice Lady - Martina Grace&Power
Fraulein Forehand - The Divine Argentine
Merciless Monica - Barcelona Bumblebee
gabybackhand is offline  
post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 13th, 2010, 06:34 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: England
Posts: 1,825
                     
Re: 4th best player of 1998

Other: Mary Pierce.
Declan is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TennisForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome