Evonne's greatest match(es)? - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 119 (permalink) Old Dec 8th, 2004, 02:43 PM Thread Starter
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Evonne's greatest match(es)?

Guys,
I have a quesiton for those of you who are lucky enough to have seen many Evonne matches. Which one(s) would you recommend the most as her greatest performances? These could be close ones where she came through or matches where she was so "on" from start to finish that she cleaned her opponent's clock. I'm going through an Evonne period at the moment and want to see more of her!

Thanks and bisous

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post #2 of 119 (permalink) Old Dec 8th, 2004, 04:08 PM
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I have always been enormously partial to the 76 VS Champs final which she won 6-3 6-7 6-3 over Chris...for both quality of play and sheer excitement. For some reason, Steve Flink took steps to mention this as NOT being finely played on Chris' end of the court, as he believes she was not enormously confident at the time and was obviously in the immediate final break-up with Connors, which wouldn't have helped. BUt I've seen Chris play a lot, its fair to say, and I thought she was fantastic. So Evonne was GIANT in that match.

Tennisvideos also mentioned it (if you read the first page of the 'chris & evonne' thread...TV also mentioned the 74 wimbledon sf against chris, the 75 australian against martina, and 1 other...which i cant check from here.

I love her battle over austin in the 1980 wimb sf, her 74 uso final against king, and i understand her 1973 USO final was also something special.

I have the footage from the 75 aussie final, and its true that during her post-match speech, evonne breaks down into practical sobbing on court after mentioning how her coach vic had been like a second father to her. I didnt know upon first viewing that her own father had passed away in the year prior to the tournament, so it certainly struck me as a very touching moment, either way.

OH!! wait, her 1976 WITC SF (played 1975) win over WADE was amazing, 7-6 in the third. Gorgeous tennis from both players.
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post #3 of 119 (permalink) Old Dec 8th, 2004, 04:22 PM Thread Starter
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Daze11, you're a doll! I've seen both the 74 US final and the 80 WMB SF and find both fantastic. That Aussie final in 75 would be fun to watch (Martina was nearing her janitor-look period at that point - it didn't reach its zenith till she had the frizzy perm, though)

Significantly, maybe, most of these matches were cliff-hangers: do you know of any where she just took off ( ŕ la Martina WMB final 84) against an opponent who was also playing well?

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post #4 of 119 (permalink) Old Dec 8th, 2004, 05:43 PM
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hmmm...i dont know of any full-on goolagong blow-outs, though the 80 wimb final against chris was pretty close: 6-1 3-0 up to the rain delay. Some people say chris was very off, but some say evonne played perfect flawless tennis, so...???

tennisvideos is extremely fond on evonne and it was she who he seems to have joint-purchased many of those classics with, so he's a good person to ask about when evonne is divine!! (in tapes which are obtainable...)

i have the 2nd set of the aussie 75, and i think that was pre-perm...i think she actually looked pretty ok. i always prefer her pre-'85-blonde, to tell you the truth, though that 1975/1976 perm was the absolute worst...that anyone ever had.

also, i dont think of evonne as sustaining intensity the way martina did. this is what made martina so great; she could play at that level all match long. evonne did 5 games here, 4 games there....if she sustained that 'streak' energy for entire matches, she 'd be likely in that elite top 5 of all time.

Last edited by daze11; Dec 8th, 2004 at 05:53 PM.
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post #5 of 119 (permalink) Old Dec 8th, 2004, 08:50 PM
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Although I have never seen these matches, Evonne beat Chris 6-0 in the third set of the 1974 Aussie open and cleaned her clock in straight sets at the end of the year in Los Angeles. In 1973, I beleive she beat Chris on clay in Rome with a 6-0 set.

I think the best Evonne performance I have ever seen is her 1980 Wimbledon final over Evert. Say what you will about Chrissie...Evonne was on fire., winning 9 out of the first ten games. If the rain hadn't come....?

A determined, error free Goolagong should have almost always beat Evert on grass. Of course, Evonne's career was filled more 'should have's' than just about anyone's. I guess that is why I loved her so much!
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post #6 of 119 (permalink) Old Dec 8th, 2004, 09:56 PM
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I agree with daze Evert. Though I haven't seen that many Goolagong matches, that 76 WTA final was awesome. The whole match was of very good quality but the 3rd set built into a wonderful crescendo. Evonne came up with some brilliant shots to put the match away. It also includes ones of the best match points I've ever seen.

Though the 3rd set isn't that close, I'm also partial to the 75 US Open final. I loved seeing all court games like Goologong's on green clay. She and Chris played a great match but I can see why its probably overshadowed by the 74 US final.

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post #7 of 119 (permalink) Old Dec 9th, 2004, 05:45 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. I've seen the 80 Wimbledon final and there are some exquisite points. The one that comes to mind is when , after a long rally in which the players move each other all over the court, Evert seems to gain the ascendancy and pushes Evonne deep into the backhand corner, at which point Evonne plays a total "gem" (Maskellese) of an acute angled sliced backhand cross court which leaves Evert totally flat-footed.

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post #8 of 119 (permalink) Old Dec 9th, 2004, 11:54 AM
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I have one question.....how was the level back then when Evonne played? sometimes on general messages you read the most amazing things: Tennis before the ´80´ies, specifically before ´88, was socialite level, the top 10 back then wouldn´t even make top 100 today, etc...

So what do you think? Would the Evonne´s, BJk´s, Courts, etc be a factor in the modern game, say from Steffi and onwards?

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post #9 of 119 (permalink) Old Dec 9th, 2004, 12:49 PM
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Okay daze, you have the promise of my first born.

There is nothing more beautiful than Evonne Goolagong in full flight moving across a tennis court.
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post #10 of 119 (permalink) Old Dec 9th, 2004, 02:52 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfajeffster
Okay daze, you have the promise of my first born.
Your first born must be nearing the age of consent by now, Jeff, but are you really sure you want to surrrender him to Daze?


bandabou, in my sincere opinion, the players you mention would indeed be a factor. A couple of weeks ago, I was watching the BJK -Evonne US final 74 with a mate of mine and at one point after a BJK volley he said, "that's a great volley in any era". About two minutes later, in response to an Evonne topspin backhand pass, he said, "that's equal to Justine's backhand". We also watched several Evert matches (he's a huge Evert fan) and again he noted how deep and close to the lines those drives were in contrast to the drives we see from most of the top players today, which tend to bounce inside the court more because they are topped more and hit harder with the new technology.

It seems indisputable to me that those women were capable of executing shots as technically and tactically well as any of today's stars - maybe even better. Martina has made the point that she can handle the power of the modern game as long as she can get to the ball, in other words that power can be countered by speed and fitness. If you accept her implicit premise, which is that technological changes to the equipment have resulted in more power and better fitness/training regimes have resulted in more strength/speed, but that both are era-relative and cannot therefore be factored in to a fair comparison, you are back to the ability to produce the shots, execute the tactics and maintain the focus necessary to compete, which the women above -and many others - had in abundant measures.

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post #11 of 119 (permalink) Old Dec 9th, 2004, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy T
Your first born must be nearing the age of consent by now, Jeff, but are you really sure you want to surrrender him to Daze?


bandabou, in my sincere opinion, the players you mention would indeed be a factor. A couple of weeks ago, I was watching the BJK -Evonne US final 74 with a mate of mine and at one point after a BJK volley he said, "that's a great volley in any era". About two minutes later, in response to an Evonne topspin backhand pass, he said, "that's equal to Justine's backhand". We also watched several Evert matches (he's a huge Evert fan) and again he noted how deep and close to the lines those drives were in contrast to the drives we see from most of the top players today, which tend to bounce inside the court more because they are topped more and hit harder with the new technology.

It seems indisputable to me that those women were capable of executing shots as technically and tactically well as any of today's stars - maybe even better. Martina has made the point that she can handle the power of the modern game as long as she can get to the ball, in other words that power can be countered by speed and fitness. If you accept her implicit premise, which is that technological changes to the equipment have resulted in more power and better fitness/training regimes have resulted in more strength/speed, but that both are era-relative and cannot therefore be factored in to a fair comparison, you are back to the ability to produce the shots, execute the tactics and maintain the focus necessary to compete, which the women above -and many others - had in abundant measures.
My first born has been speaking from the womb of my fertile tennis mind for years now, true, however, daze knows exactly what I want (and very odd that you and I are going through a "phase" at the same time), and unfortunately, my first born is the only thing left I have to trade for it!

I couldn't agree with your assessment more, Andy. The only proviso, again IMO, is the racquet face size. There were big girls back then, although not the plethora of hugely conditioned athletes we see now in the top ten. Diminutive firestarts like King and Casals would have their hands full with even a players as fit as Davenport or V.Williams, who (in that theoretic tennis match in the sky) will have been trained to serve and volley, even with a standard size frame, however, you very rightly point out that they had to use their minds as a major weapon conducting the arsenal of shot selection and match strategy much more. It is an unknown how many of today's top players are capable of even concentrating that long.

There is nothing more beautiful than Evonne Goolagong in full flight moving across a tennis court.
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post #12 of 119 (permalink) Old Dec 9th, 2004, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy T
Your first born must be nearing the age of consent by now, Jeff, but are you really sure you want to surrrender him to Daze?
not even I would surrender him to me!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by alfajeffster
unfortunately, my first born is the only thing left I have to trade for it!
so untrue.

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post #13 of 119 (permalink) Old Dec 9th, 2004, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bandabou
I have one question.....how was the level back then when Evonne played? sometimes on general messages you read the most amazing things: Tennis before the ´80´ies, specifically before ´88, was socialite level, the top 10 back then wouldn´t even make top 100 today, etc...

So what do you think? Would the Evonne´s, BJk´s, Courts, etc be a factor in the modern game, say from Steffi and onwards?

I believe in the popular general opinion that a champion is a champion no matter what era. The talent, determination, and work ethic wouldn't change - only the technology. But I would wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment of tennis pre-1988. I would put the top 10 of 1978 or 1988 up against the top 10 of 1998 or 2004. I don't even think it would be that close.

IMO, in terms of being actual tennis players rather than ball bashers with thundersticks for racquets, the top 10 of the 80's would easily beat the top 10 of the 90's or anything this decade has yet to produce. I used to feel the same way about 70's tennis that you feel about tennis pre 1988. But after watching more tennis from that era, I have a total new found respect for it.

I believe players like BJK, Evonne, and Court would have their hands full with Steffi or Monica. But there's no one else from the 90's or the present day that I would even put close to those three greats. I think that tennis got worse since 1988, not better.

I fully believe that the reason why Martina can continue to play competitively with many in today's top 50 is that today's players don't know any strategy. It's first strike tennis plain and simple. If everything were equal, I think players like BJK or Chris would take apart the Williams sisters or JenCap. Perhaps Henin would fare better.

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Last edited by HanaFanGA; Dec 9th, 2004 at 03:39 PM.
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post #14 of 119 (permalink) Old Dec 9th, 2004, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy T
Your first born must be nearing the age of consent by now, Jeff, but are you really sure you want to surrrender him to Daze?


bandabou, in my sincere opinion, the players you mention would indeed be a factor. A couple of weeks ago, I was watching the BJK -Evonne US final 74 with a mate of mine and at one point after a BJK volley he said, "that's a great volley in any era". About two minutes later, in response to an Evonne topspin backhand pass, he said, "that's equal to Justine's backhand". We also watched several Evert matches (he's a huge Evert fan) and again he noted how deep and close to the lines those drives were in contrast to the drives we see from most of the top players today, which tend to bounce inside the court more because they are topped more and hit harder with the new technology.

It seems indisputable to me that those women were capable of executing shots as technically and tactically well as any of today's stars - maybe even better. Martina has made the point that she can handle the power of the modern game as long as she can get to the ball, in other words that power can be countered by speed and fitness. If you accept her implicit premise, which is that technological changes to the equipment have resulted in more power and better fitness/training regimes have resulted in more strength/speed, but that both are era-relative and cannot therefore be factored in to a fair comparison, you are back to the ability to produce the shots, execute the tactics and maintain the focus necessary to compete, which the women above -and many others - had in abundant measures.

so the conclution is that someone´s been busy brabbling nonsense AGAIN on GM?

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post #15 of 119 (permalink) Old Dec 9th, 2004, 03:44 PM
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I think that Serena and Hingis at their best would also be major contenders against the great HanaFanGA in terms of sheer talent and champion's ability/mentality.

In relation to Bandabou's orginal enquiry, I've been down that argument many times, and won't respond anymore.

Daze, luckily you and most of the other Evert fans here now weren't around when someone started a thread in GM a couple of years ago saying that Serena would beat Evert at her best 6-0, 6-0 everytime. The crap that was posted in that thread through sheer ignorance. Then another thread about the best grasscourt players, there was a post about the fact the Chris would be lucky to get a game off Venus or any of the other top girls on grass nowadays etc. I kinda gave up after that. It got too tiring.............
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