I can't remember a year when........... - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 95 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 2004, 08:28 AM Thread Starter
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I can't remember a year when...........

.......... it's been so hard to determine a worthy number 1 as this year. I know it's not strictly BFTP stuff, but I wanted a sensible discussion, rather than spats with 13 y/os , and it kinda is BFTP becuase the year is nearly over!

If Lindsay had won the USO, she would have been no.1 in my books, but without a GS, neither she nor Mauresmo deserves it. JHH hasn't played enough. Serena doesn't deserve it. So who's left....surely not Myskina, Sharapova, or Kusnetsova.................

It's pretty baffling, and will the tour final prove anything really?
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post #2 of 95 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 2004, 08:40 AM
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I guess when one of the four slamchampions win the masters then she is a deserved number 1. It's kind of weird how none of the slamchampions made another semi or final in a slam this year though. Justine is the only one who at least won a tier 1 and olympic gold so based on that I guess she is the most "deserving" right now when pure talking about big wins and despite that she didn't play a lot! (I put deserving between "" because Amelie obvious made enough points so she deserves to be number 1 right now)

But Lindsay is leading with something like 600 point in the championrace. knowing how good she is indoor. She will be hard to catch!. That's the second time that she finish the year on 1 without making even a slamfinal

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post #3 of 95 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 2004, 09:46 AM
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I hope that Justine does well during the Autumn and wins the YEC. With the Aussie, an Olympic Gold and the YEC, she'd be a worthy #1. Failing that, if one of the other three winners of the majors can come up trumps at the YEC (if they qualify - and I bet the WTA is worried at the prospect of a YEC without Sharapova, Wimbledon Champion) then she should get it.

Incredibly, S & V now figure among the older members of the top flight. Only Momo, Capriati and Davenport are from the generation before. The days when we get an established hierarchy at the top which lasts for a few seasons seem to have ended back in 96 and now we have players dominating for 12 months or so, then falling back (or out due to injury).

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post #4 of 95 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 2004, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCP
.......... it's been so hard to determine a worthy number 1 as this year. I know it's not strictly BFTP stuff, but I wanted a sensible discussion, rather than spats with 13 y/os , and it kinda is BFTP becuase the year is nearly over!

If Lindsay had won the USO, she would have been no.1 in my books, but without a GS, neither she nor Mauresmo deserves it. JHH hasn't played enough. Serena doesn't deserve it. So who's left....surely not Myskina, Sharapova, or Kusnetsova.................

It's pretty baffling, and will the tour final prove anything really?
I would agree with Irma that Davenport will end up as #1 on the computer and also that Amelie is there "of right" under the current system

As to who really is the current #1? I just don't know, but I would reckon you'd have to wait until after the tour final when the situation might be more clear than it currently is. On the other hand the way the year has evolved it could muddy the waters even further. Sharapova, I predict will not make the finals.
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post #5 of 95 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 2004, 11:19 AM Thread Starter
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I agree Chris. Who is the current no.1? I have no idea.


The unique thing about this year is that there are not 1 but 3 surprise GS winners who have not really done much elase with their year or any other of the GSs, and the two "winningest" players on the tour don't even have a GS final between them.................
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post #6 of 95 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 2004, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCP
I agree Chris. Who is the current no.1? I have no idea.


The unique thing about this year is that there are not 1 but 3 surprise GS winners who have not really done much elase with their year or any other of the GSs, and the two "winningest" players on the tour don't even have a GS final between them.................
I'd say Henin-Hardenne is the only player who has a somewhat legitimate case for #1 right now. In spite of her dismal performances at the French and US Opens, she's the only player this year who's won a Slam and at least one Tier I title (Indian Wells). Plus she also had those wins over Mauresmo and Myskina at the Olympics en route to her gold medal, so she deserves the top spot by virtue of being the strongest in what is a really weak field. Mauresmo as #1 is a bigger joke than Clijsters as #1.

If I had to rank the top 4 players right now, I'd probably have:
1. Henin-Hardenne
2. Davenport
3. Mauresmo
4. Myskina

Best left-right combination by a German (and that includes Max Schmeling): Steffi Graf. All she did in 1987 was knock Navratilova out of #1 and try to knock Evert out of the sport. (Mike Lupica in "The Best and Worst of Tennis in 1987", World Tennis)

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post #7 of 95 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 2004, 12:36 PM
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The fall can help sort this out-but Henin is a clear so far #1 in my book, even if the margin isn't big.


1. She has a slam.
2. Toss in the Olympics.
3. She has won 5 events overall out of 9 entered and her winning percentage
is close to 90% at 35-4. The other slam winners have few tour wins other
than the slams.

4. Her head to heads are impressive.

2-0 vs. Davenport
2-1 vs. Mauresmo
3-1 vs. Kuznetsova
2-0 vs. Myskina.
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post #8 of 95 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 2004, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
The fall can help sort this out-but Henin is a clear so far #1 in my book, even if the margin isn't big.


1. She has a slam.
2. Toss in the Olympics.
3. She has won 5 events overall out of 9 entered and her winning percentage
is close to 90% at 35-4. The other slam winners have few tour wins other
than the slams.

4. Her head to heads are impressive.

2-0 vs. Davenport
2-1 vs. Mauresmo
3-1 vs. Kuznetsova
2-0 vs. Myskina.

I agree with Samn and you, Rollo. There's also the feeling for me that she was clearly reigning #1 until the virus came along and her results in the two tournaments since she returned are not bad considering.

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post #9 of 95 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 2004, 01:29 PM
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I agree too that Justine Henin-Hardenne still has to be considered the #1 player. It still amazes me that she came back and played as tough a match as she did against Myskina at the Olympics in the semis- that flash of brilliance shone from the top player in the sport, and the U.S. Open result can be forgiven when the entire year is taken as a whole (to date).

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post #10 of 95 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 2004, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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You're all probably right. Psychologically though I feel that she hasn't played enough to deserve it. It's also a shame that no one has been able to exploit her absence to dominate the tour.

Is anyone game to have a go at putting in their top 10 so far this year?
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post #11 of 95 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 2004, 03:02 PM
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With the women I see two factors. One is how much injuries is playing a part and the other factor is how much more depth is on the women's tour. When I talked to Pauline Betz she made it very clear that back in the 1940s she didn't fear anyone out of the top 5. Today, out of the top five you're looking at Kuznetsova, Jen., Serena, Venus and Sharapova. Lower ranked you have talented players such as Pierce, Rubin, Sprem and Maleeva. Just to name a few.

What's funny is over on the men's side you couldn't have a more clear idea of whose's number one. Roger is simply head and shoulders about the other guys.
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post #12 of 95 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 2004, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCP
You're all probably right. Psychologically though I feel that she hasn't played enough to deserve it. It's also a shame that no one has been able to exploit her absence to dominate the tour.

Is anyone game to have a go at putting in their top 10 so far this year?

I see a difference between who is the current best player in the world and who is the #1 for the year. Going into the USO on her Olympics I thought Henin-H had been biding her time and would confirm her mantle however I think that's now questionable. I would rather wait now until after the tour finals before making a list.

Not really related to this but can any Blaster tell me if the term "career Grand Slam" is a recognised one in tennis? i.e for what Martina and Chris did in winning all four Slams but not in the one year. I really don't think I've heard of it before.

It is being claimed that Henin-H will have a career Golden Grand Slam if she wins Wimbledon.
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post #13 of 95 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 2004, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris whiteside

Not really related to this but can any Blaster tell me if the term "career Grand Slam" is a recognised one in tennis? i.e for what Martina and Chris did in winning all four Slams but not in the one year. I really don't think I've heard of it before.
I think people started using it only after Andre Agassi won the 1999 French Open to complete his collection of Grand Slam singles trophies. I don't recall ever hearing the term "career Slam" before that, and I think it started being used in order to recognize the magnitude of Agassi's achievement -- he's the first and so far the only man since Rod Laver to win all four Slams at least once.

Best left-right combination by a German (and that includes Max Schmeling): Steffi Graf. All she did in 1987 was knock Navratilova out of #1 and try to knock Evert out of the sport. (Mike Lupica in "The Best and Worst of Tennis in 1987", World Tennis)

"A couple of years ago, we nicknamed Steffi Graf's forehand 'Jaws'. And that music would go perfectly when she starts running in to the net, swarming on that little ball." (JoAnne Russell, during the 1988 Wimbledon final between Graf and Navratilova)
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post #14 of 95 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 2004, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCP
You're all probably right. Psychologically though I feel that she hasn't played enough to deserve it. It's also a shame that no one has been able to exploit her absence to dominate the tour.

Is anyone game to have a go at putting in their top 10 so far this year?
1. Justine
2. Lindsay
3. Amelie
4. Myskina
5. Kuznetsova
6. Dementieva
7. Sharapova
8. Serena
9. Venus
10. Jen.
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post #15 of 95 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 2004, 05:53 PM
 
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I think Justine's number one.
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