Greatest-ever: It's about watchability, stupid! - TennisForum.com
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post #1 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 2004, 06:07 PM Thread Starter
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Greatest-ever: It's about watchability, stupid!

So we have Graf, Navratilova and Court, maybe even Evert in the race for "best-ever".
The stats and numbers have been discussed over and over again, everybody has interpreted them in his/her fave's favour.

IMO, the deciding factor should be "watchability".
Whose play was the best to watch?
Who played with utmost grace, elegance, athleticism and - as we are at women's tennis - femininity? Whose game was "poetry in motion"? Yes, which woman played tennis in a manner no male ever could play?

The answer is clear:
Miss Stefanie Maria (a.k.a. "Steffi") Graf!




At least this time there simply can't be any controversy ....
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post #2 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 2004, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calimero377
So we have Graf, Navratilova and Court, maybe even Evert in the race for "best-ever".
The stats and numbers have been discussed over and over again, everybody has interpreted them in his/her fave's favour.

IMO, the deciding factor should be "watchability".
Whose play was the best to watch?
Who played with utmost grace, elegance, athleticism and - as we are at women's tennis - femininity? Whose game was "poetry in motion"? Yes, which woman played tennis in a manner no male ever could play?

The answer is clear:
Miss Stefanie Maria (a.k.a. "Steffi") Graf!




At least this time there simply can't be any controversy ....
Evonne Goolagong Cawley, stupid. Sorry, I couldn't resist. Seriously, I don't think I'm alone in my opinion that no man or woman played as beautiful as Evonne Goolagong Cawley in full flight. Maria Bueno may come close, and Hana Mandlikova is a distant third, but there is no one who compares to Evonne.

Of the 4 great players you mentioned, 3 of them were a little mechanical in their consistent stroke production- Court, Evert & Graf. Navratilova has to be the winner in the flowing game department there. Martina's natural movement all over the court (not just on the baseline, but the transition up, back sideways, everywhere) is pretty much in a category all its own. Did you see the get she made in the Olympic doubles yesterday against the Japanese team?
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post #3 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 2004, 06:42 PM
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Alfajeffters Well said about Hana Mandlikova as long as I follow women's tennis, I'd pick Hana Mandlikova on account of natural talent above every1else. Must admit it's difficult for me to judge Maria Bueno/Evonne Goolagong Cawley. But even if it's before your time you still can catch upon it.




Last edited by KV; Aug 20th, 2004 at 07:49 PM.
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post #4 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 2004, 06:50 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfajeffster
Evonne Goolagong Cawley, stupid. Sorry, I couldn't resist. Seriously, I don't think I'm alone in my opinion that no man or woman played as beautiful as Evonne Goolagong Cawley in full flight. Maria Bueno may come close, and Hana Mandlikova is a distant third, but there is no one who compares to Evonne.

Of the 4 great players you mentioned, 3 of them were a little mechanical in their consistent stroke production- Court, Evert & Graf. Navratilova has to be the winner in the flowing game department there. Martina's natural movement all over the court (not just on the baseline, but the transition up, back sideways, everywhere) is pretty much in a category all its own. Did you see the get she made in the Olympic doubles yesterday against the Japanese team?

Goolagong played "sissy" tennis, like a little girl.
Bueno I never saw play.
Mandlikova, you're joking?
Same with Navi, a carbon-copy of Edberg, only far, far worse.
Graf was unique, even in 50 years people will marvel at her "jeu de jambe" (the word "footwork" is blasphemous!) ...

Navratilova's game looked perfect, a perfectly educated & trained Soviet-style tennis player. Graf was a natural, however. You always got the impression that it was all there from the beginning, that Graf never had to "learn" tennis like mere mortals.

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post #5 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 2004, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calimero377
Goolagong played "sissy" tennis, like a little girl.
Bueno I never saw play.
Mandlikova, you're joking?
Same with Navi, a carbon-copy of Edberg, only far, far worse.
Graf was unique, even in 50 years people will marvel at her "jeu de jambe" (the word "footwork" is blasphemous!) ...

Navratilova's game looked perfect, a perfectly educated & trained Soviet-style tennis player. Graf was a natural, however. You always got the impression that it was all there from the beginning, that Graf never had to "learn" tennis like mere mortals.

I'm beginning to wonder if you really do play tennis, or just have a bedroom plastered with Steffi pictures that you wake up to every morning. Navratilova a carbon-copy of Edberg? For starters, their serves were nothing at all alike, almost as different as their forehands and backhands, and they volleyed totally differently as well. The only similarity in their games could possibly be the backhand chip approach, but I'd compare Marti's chip with Billie Jean King's before I'd say it was a carbon copy of Edberg's. The big difference in their game is that backhand wing- Stefan could and did hit the topspin and flat drive backhands equally as well- Navratilova did not, and when pressed sometimes missed backhand passing shots.

Steffi Graf's serve, forehand, and backhand were all hit very flat, and methodically. There was very little stroke variation or variety in her game- it was one of the most one-dimensional and singular games in the history of tennis. Yes, her footwork is possibly the best ever- a joy to watch even to this day on video, but as for her game being the most fluent, graceful, and feminine ever- are you kidding? Reality check. Breathe deep, hold for two, exhale for two, repeat.
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post #6 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 2004, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calimero377

Mandlikova, you're joking?
Same with Navi, a carbon-copy of Edberg, only far, far worse.
Them's fighting words! Wash your mouth out with soap, dammit.
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post #7 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 2004, 07:21 PM
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Oh dear, Jeff, KV and Samn.

Why did you fall for this?
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post #8 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 2004, 07:26 PM
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>>>>>Who played with utmost femininity?

ANDRE AGASSI
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post #9 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 2004, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris whiteside
Oh dear, Jeff, KV and Samn.

Why did you fall for this?
What can I say? I have more patience than most here, and if there is the tiniest little spark of light deep down in there regarding tennis the game, I'm going to fuel it with reason and hope for the best. It's not all that bad wearing hip boots- not the most fashionable way to communicate, but the lines are still open...

P.S.- I CAN'T WAIT TO GET HOME AND WATCH THAT EXPLOSIVE HENIN/MYSKINA MATCH!!!!
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post #10 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 2004, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfajeffster
I'm beginning to wonder if you really do play tennis, or just have a bedroom plastered with Steffi pictures that you wake up to every morning. Navratilova a carbon-copy of Edberg? For starters, their serves were nothing at all alike, almost as different as their forehands and backhands, and they volleyed totally differently as well. The only similarity in their games could possibly be the backhand chip approach, but I'd compare Marti's chip with Billie Jean King's before I'd say it was a carbon copy of Edberg's. The big difference in their game is that backhand wing- Stefan could and did hit the topspin and flat drive backhands equally as well- Navratilova did not, and when pressed sometimes missed backhand passing shots.

Steffi Graf's serve, forehand, and backhand were all hit very flat, and methodically. There was very little stroke variation or variety in her game- it was one of the most one-dimensional and singular games in the history of tennis. Yes, her footwork is possibly the best ever- a joy to watch even to this day on video, but as for her game being the most fluent, graceful, and feminine ever- are you kidding? Reality check. Breathe deep, hold for two, exhale for two, repeat.
He will fail the reality check, as he can't count to two. And I bet he doesn't play Tennis.
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post #11 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 2004, 07:41 PM
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Stop It Please

It is about time that those who continuously post on Graf, Seles and their rivalry, their comments replete with derogatory remarks about pretty much every other player in history realised that the tennis fans round here are getting mightily pissed off by all this mud-slinging and public verbal masturbation over your heroines' records. Some have tried to intervene with reason, others have ignored it but it tends to spread like a virus from one thread to the other.

There's nothing wrong with discussing your favourite's strengths and weaknesses, best/worst moments, etc, but when it degenerates into insults and a black versus white view of events, it becomes pointless, boring and very irritating.

I write only on behalf of myself - and as someone who is capable of blowing up from time to time when I feel my faves are being abused in the stocks, so no condescension intended. I am also not implicating all Graf and Seles fans in this either. Please will those who can't resist the urge to engage in this sort of non-stop non-communication either limit themselves to a single thread (the one Rollo provided, for example) or go do it elsewhere ( in General messages, via Private Messages or email) so the rest of us don't have to put up with it any more?

Believe it or not, you are actually making people feel like they don't want to log on to BFTP any more.

Sincerely and amicably
Andy T.

Last edited by Andy T; Aug 20th, 2004 at 07:46 PM.
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post #12 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 2004, 07:42 PM
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Tjaa....sissy tennis, soviet-trained,..can somebody be more deluded to just one player like that?!
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post #13 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 2004, 07:49 PM
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Good post Andy. Why does Rollo not dismiss Calimero? Then we can post in peace again!
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post #14 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 2004, 08:10 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfajeffster
I'm beginning to wonder if you really do play tennis, or just have a bedroom plastered with Steffi pictures that you wake up to every morning. Navratilova a carbon-copy of Edberg? For starters, their serves were nothing at all alike, almost as different as their forehands and backhands, and they volleyed totally differently as well. The only similarity in their games could possibly be the backhand chip approach, but I'd compare Marti's chip with Billie Jean King's before I'd say it was a carbon copy of Edberg's. The big difference in their game is that backhand wing- Stefan could and did hit the topspin and flat drive backhands equally as well- Navratilova did not, and when pressed sometimes missed backhand passing shots.

Steffi Graf's serve, forehand, and backhand were all hit very flat, and methodically. There was very little stroke variation or variety in her game- it was one of the most one-dimensional and singular games in the history of tennis. Yes, her footwork is possibly the best ever- a joy to watch even to this day on video, but as for her game being the most fluent, graceful, and feminine ever- are you kidding? Reality check. Breathe deep, hold for two, exhale for two, repeat.

I started playing tennis about the same time as Steffi. I played yesterday, I'll play tomorrow morning.
No, my bedroom is not plastered with Steffi pictures, never was.

Navratilova did nothing in tennis a male player could not do better.
Why watch Navratilova when I could watch Edberg?
She played very one-dimensional. Serve & volley, always coming in.
Graf constructed points. It was like chess ....
And I like her fluent movements on the court. She didn't run, she just glided over the court in Michael-Jackson style. A dancer, poetry in motion, as another poster said. Navratilova worked tennis, Graf seemed effortless in comparison.


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post #15 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 2004, 08:14 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samn
Them's fighting words! Wash your mouth out with soap, dammit.

You think Mandlikova is more watchable than Steffi?
And Navratilova is not far, far worse than Edberg?
Or being a "carbon-copy" is a "fighting word"?
Eerie .....



BTW, thou shall not swear ....
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