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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 2004, 06:44 PM Thread Starter
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WTA Web Site Player Bios

I've been perusing through the new features on the site, and came across the following h2h stats listed there between Billie Jean King and Margaret Court:

Court leads 5-2
1963 WIMBLEDON GRASS (O) F M. COURT 6-3 6-4
1965 US OPEN GRASS (O) F M. COURT 8-6 7-5
1968 AUSTRALIAN OPEN GRASS (O) F B. KING 6-1 6-2
1969 AUSTRALIAN OPEN GRASS (O) F M. COURT 6-4 6-1
1970 WIMBLEDON GRASS (O) F M. COURT 14-12 11-9
1972 US OPEN CLAY (O) S B. KING 6-4 6-4
1973 VS OF CHICAGO CARPET (I) F M. COURT 6-2 4-6 6-4

Anyone notice anything wrong?
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 2004, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfajeffster
I've been perusing through the new features on the site, and came across the following h2h stats listed there between Billie Jean King and Margaret Court:

Court leads 5-2
1963 WIMBLEDON GRASS (O) F M. COURT 6-3 6-4
1965 US OPEN GRASS (O) F M. COURT 8-6 7-5
1968 AUSTRALIAN OPEN GRASS (O) F B. KING 6-1 6-2
1969 AUSTRALIAN OPEN GRASS (O) F M. COURT 6-4 6-1
1970 WIMBLEDON GRASS (O) F M. COURT 14-12 11-9
1972 US OPEN CLAY (O) S B. KING 6-4 6-4
1973 VS OF CHICAGO CARPET (I) F M. COURT 6-2 4-6 6-4

Anyone notice anything wrong?
I'm absolutely shocked that the site doesn't say King leads the matchup.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 2004, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samn
I'm absolutely shocked that the site doesn't say King leads the matchup.
Not only that- the USO in 1972 was held on clay! Not only does it present the information from majors only, but if memory serves, didn't they meet in 66 before the finals at either the U.S. Championships or at Wimbledon. It seems like they missed a BJK notch in the belt. What are they thinking? Where is this information coming from?
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 2004, 11:07 PM
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I've spent a lot of time on the website recently. I'm hoping it is a work in progress. It does have a lot of tournament results from the early to mid-70's that the ITF website doesn't have. If they continue to work on it, they will have something good. The WTA website was the only place that I found that Casals had a 1971 win over Goolagong that no one else had.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 2004, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by preacherfan
I've spent a lot of time on the website recently. I'm hoping it is a work in progress. It does have a lot of tournament results from the early to mid-70's that the ITF website doesn't have. If they continue to work on it, they will have something good. The WTA website was the only place that I found that Casals had a 1971 win over Goolagong that no one else had.

I too hope it's a work in progress. What worries me is that once again players from the pre-open era are being totally ignored. If something is not done soon much of tennis history is going to be lost. I've been going over papers from the 1920s-1930s and many of them are on microfilm. The problem is that the microfilms at times can be hard if not impossible to read. We're facing the same problem that Hollywood is facing in trying to keep history from those eras. Many classic movies have been lost forever because the films rotted in their film cans. No one got them onto Cds or whatever else they could have put them on in time. We're losing players records, tournaments etc on these microfilms. Shoot, I'm doing my bit by putting together all of Alice Marble's records and Eleanor Tennant's.

I know not everyone is interested in past players. Some people don't care about tennis after 2003, but some of us do take an interest. I'd love to see the WTA go out and put together an oral history with many of these woman. And by that I don't mean just Open era. Get out there and get on tape Louise Brough, Betz, Bundy, Hart, and Fry. I wonder who the oldest living player is? Anyone know?
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 2004, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by preacherfan
I've spent a lot of time on the website recently. I'm hoping it is a work in progress. It does have a lot of tournament results from the early to mid-70's that the ITF website doesn't have. If they continue to work on it, they will have something good. The WTA website was the only place that I found that Casals had a 1971 win over Goolagong that no one else had.
it isn't infallible, preacherfan. Please check out my post in the h2h thread about that casals win.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 2004, 12:15 AM
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Also, I've noticed the 70's results posted are mostly from VS tournaments in the US. Players that played primarily in Europe are overlooked.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 2004, 12:56 AM
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Goolagong result wrong

That Goolagong result is so wrong. the tournament was Wembley 1971 and Goolagong lost to Durr 64 64 in the semi finals. Casals lost to in the semi to King 61 62 as well and then both played for 3rd place (only a few tournaments did this) Casals won the 3rd place match 63 60.

I went through the site hoping for something good but also was disapointed. they should employ one of us to fix it.
Full results of this tournament in World of Tennis 1972 page 270.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 2004, 01:26 AM
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There are mistakes with active players, too.
Maleeva for instance reached two dubz finals this year, its listed NOWHERE.

Think it imght not be the only case.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 2004, 02:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfajeffster
Not only that- the USO in 1972 was held on clay! Not only does it present the information from majors only, but if memory serves, didn't they meet in 66 before the finals at either the U.S. Championships or at Wimbledon. It seems like they missed a BJK notch in the belt. What are they thinking? Where is this information coming from?
I think BJK may actually have won their first match, bouncing Smith (before she became Court) in an early round at Wimbledon when Margaret was the defending champion. I also thought King may have won a Wimbledon final against Court in the 60s, but maybe I'm remembering correctly and I'm too lazy to look it up!
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 2004, 05:51 AM
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It would seem it has always been the case that pre-1968 the only tournaments the WTA recognises are the four Slams (plus Federation Cup). Even then as has already been pointed out they have missed the 1962 and 66 Wimbledon results.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 2004, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewTas
That Goolagong result is so wrong. the tournament was Wembley 1971 and Goolagong lost to Durr 64 64 in the semi finals. Casals lost to in the semi to King 61 62 as well and then both played for 3rd place (only a few tournaments did this) Casals won the 3rd place match 63 60.

I went through the site hoping for something good but also was disapointed. they should employ one of us to fix it.
Full results of this tournament in World of Tennis 1972 page 270.
Happy to see you posting again AndrewTas - you've been away too long!
Check out the BJK and Richey results threads - there may be stuff you can add!

Preacherfan, if anyone can tell you if Rosie ever did beat Evonne in a regular match it's AndrewTas!
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 2004, 12:13 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jem
I think BJK may actually have won their first match, bouncing Smith (before she became Court) in an early round at Wimbledon when Margaret was the defending champion. I also thought King may have won a Wimbledon final against Court in the 60s, but maybe I'm remembering correctly and I'm too lazy to look it up!
Billie Jean Moffitt def. Margaret Smith (the #1 seed) at 1962 Wimbledon in the first round (Smith received a bye, so technically it was the second round). It was the first time in the history of the Championships the #1 seed had been knocked out in the first round, and it was big news back then. Margaret Smith went on to meet Billie Jean Moffitt in the Wimbledon final in 1963, and took her out in straight sets to become the first Australian woman to win Wimbledon. Billie Jean Moffitt married Larry King in 1966, and proceeded to win 3 straight Wimbledon titles- none of them over Margaret in the final. The only other final they played at Wimbledon was that classic 1970 marathon encounter, which of course, Court won.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 2004, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfajeffster
Billie Jean Moffitt married Larry King in 1966, and proceeded to win 3 straight Wimbledon titles- none of them over Margaret in the final. The only other final they played at Wimbledon was that classic 1970 marathon encounter, which of course, Court won.
In fairness to BJK she did beat Margaret in the semis on her way to the 1966 title. Bythe same token Margaret beat Billie Jean in the 64 semi.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 2004, 12:38 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris whiteside
In fairness to BJK she did beat Margaret in the semis on her way to the 1966 title. Bythe same token Margaret beat Billie Jean in the 64 semi.
Thanks Chris- I couldn't remember, but it seemed to me that there was alot more Wimbledon pre-final action between these two. I remember reading in BJK's biography that after her upset of Margaret in the 62 Wimbledon first round, Margaret went on to beat her the next 13 or so times they played, and it in fact she states that it wasn't until the 1965 U.S. Championships final at Forest Hills, where Moffitt was up a break on Margaret and outplaying her in both sets, but still ended up losing the match, that she says she realized what being a champion and pulling it out when your back is against the wall is all about- she makes reference to Margaret turning it up a notch at just the right moment in both sets- and actually gives Margaret credit for showing her this champions' mentality.
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